(08-10-2021, 04:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Carson Palmer did not get his big extension until December.

Carson's deal was super unique.  It's actually kind of wild to look back at now, especially with the way rookie deals are.

Carson was only in year 3 of 6 year deal when he got his extension.  They already had him locked up for 3 more seasons after 2005 before his new deal.  They added on 6 more years to extend him for the next 9 years, through 2014.

(08-10-2021, 04:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals also said they wanted to sign him.


So who do we believe?  Neither side is willing to admit they don't want a deal.

I believe the player; this organization is terrible and has been terrible for years. Why would anyone trust them?

(08-10-2021, 05:10 PM)J24 Wrote: I believe the player; this organization is terrible and has been terrible for years. Why would anyone trust them?

Your logic seems a bit contradictory.

You claim the team is terrible and has been terrible for years yet you believe that Bates is dying to re-sign here.

If I really thought the team was that bad then I would not believe a player when he claims he wants to re-sign here.

(08-10-2021, 04:17 PM)J24 Wrote: Well considering that he was talking about how much he wanted to be apart of this organization long term all off season + the likelihood that he would be franchised Tagged after the season. Yes I would say that would be surprising.

Some players say the correct thing, some players say the wrong thing.

Bates said the correct thing.

Stop with the naivety

It's pretty alarming that most of our really good home grown guys have wanted to walk over the past few years.
Lawson, WJ3, Bates, etc.

(08-10-2021, 05:18 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It's pretty alarming that most of our really good home grown guys have wanted to walk over the past few years.
Lawson, WJ3, Bates, etc.

Many people claim that was the Bengals' choice to purge themselves of "Marvin's guys".

(08-10-2021, 03:58 PM)J24 Wrote: According to Jeremy Fowler from ESPN.

If true this just shows how dumb this front office continues to be. If things don't go right this season then Duke needs to go along with Zac Taylor. Dude is a bum

Exit Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to extension. Mods please change title!

Someone, quick, destroy Troy Blackburn's cell phone so he can't send any insulting texts to any of the players.

 

(08-10-2021, 05:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Many people claim that was the Bengals' choice to purge themselves of "Marvin's guys".

They wanted to get rid of some of their best players just because a former coach drafted them? God I hope this isn't true...would be beyond petty.

(08-10-2021, 05:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Many people claim that was the Bengals' choice to purge themselves of "Marvin's guys".

Quite possibly true, but one thing I do know for sure is that Marvin's guys did win A LOT more games than Taylor's guys have. Just in case anyone actually cares about that or not.

 

(08-10-2021, 04:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals also said they wanted to sign him.


So who do we believe?  Neither side is willing to admit they don't want a deal.

Right. It’s poker.

(08-10-2021, 04:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Just saw Rapien also reporting this which makes me more concerned. Maybe we just need to find some common ground.

Yes, Jessie is a great leader for us along with Bell on the D.

Rapien was reporting what Fowler said so he wasn't corroborating the story.

This has negotiating ploy 101 written all over it.  Popular player looking for a contract extension.  Agent leaks that negotiations aren't going well.  Fan base rises up in anger in order to pressure the team.  However, that is a ploy unlikely to work with Bengals management.  We all know how impervious they are to fan pressure

I don't think I have ever seen Jeremy Fowler break a Bengals story.  I suppose that he and Bates' agent have some sort of relationship.  Interesting that his agent David Mulugheta also represents Jaylen Ramsey, DeShaun Watson, and Michael Thomas.  Mulugheta is willing to let things get ugly in his negotiations.  

(08-10-2021, 05:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Your logic seems a bit contradictory.

You claim the team is terrible and has been terrible for years yet you believe that Bates is dying to re-sign here.

If I really thought the team was that bad then I would not believe a player when he claims he wants to re-sign here.

When did I say dying to be here?
Also he is 24 and at the top of his profession. He is probably naive enough to be believe he can turn the team around. Like most young people he doesn't know any better.

Also it happens to be in his best interest to sign a long term deal right now than wait until spring to sign a new deal.

(08-10-2021, 05:16 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Some players say the correct thing, some players say the wrong thing.

Bates said the correct thing.

Stop with the naivety

 Bates very well could be lying about wanting to be here but it makes zero financial sense for him not to get a deal done.  What person in Bates position would turn down a long term deal playing this sport knowing he could get hurt while also knowing they could use the franchise tag on him? 

Also if he didn't want to be here then why is he practicing and why hasn't he demanded a trade yet?

Maybe the FO is trying to avoid the "Just our Luck!" syndrome. Player gets season ending surgery before season starts. We do seem to have that dark cloud over Cincy as far as injuries are concerned.

(08-10-2021, 04:12 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Maybe Bates wants to move on from cincy

Is that so hard to believe?

No it’s not at all hard to believe

I hope this is just posturing. Maybe the Bates camp is asking for the moon, yet they still know that they'll eventually take less, and this is the Bengals calling their bluff. This could almost be a stalement by design.

That said, if this deal doesn't get done, and negotiations breaking down is indeed a long term problem, then it's hard for me not to think the Bengals are low-balling him.

Think of it from Bates' and his agent's perspective: They know the risk in playing out a rookie deal. They know that the tag amount for safeties is signifcantly lower than the top 5 highest paid. Surely they want to avoid this. They also know that all of the top 6 guys at the position fall between 14 mil and 15.2 mil; there is not a sizeable gap. The market is pretty easy to identify and calculate.

So I find it almost impossible they'd overshoot this, to the point of ruining long-term security and taking a huge hit in pay on the tag vs. a new deal. It would make no sense.

Like I said, this could be temporary. I'm not going to assign blame right now. Who knows what types of negotiating tactics are being used unless you're in the room. But if the season opens up and he still isn't signed, I'm going to lean towards the Bengals offering way less than Bates overshooting a clear as day safety market.

PS If he doesn't get locked up that doesn't send a good message to some of the other guys on the team. I've seen a handful of players talking up Bates this offseason, Von Bell in particular. It wouldn't be a good look to not take care of your best player. And franchising him isn't going to make a lot of people happy either.

(08-10-2021, 04:23 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: right have to know what hes asking for before i know who to be mad at...   

Not everyone...

(08-10-2021, 05:38 PM)pally Wrote: Rapien was reporting what Fowler said so he wasn't corroborating the story.

This has negotiating ploy 101 written all over it.  Popular player looking for a contract extension.  Agent leaks that negotiations aren't going well.  Fan base rises up in anger in order to pressure the team.  However, that is a ploy unlikely to work with Bengals management.  We all know how impervious they are to fan pressure

I don't think I have ever seen Jeremy Fowler break a Bengals story.  I suppose that he and Bates' agent have some sort of relationship.  Interesting that his agent David Mulugheta also represents Jaylen Ramsey, DeShaun Watson, and Michael Thomas.  Mulugheta is willing to let things get ugly in his negotiations.  

Alright, thanks Pally.  This is what I was wanting to hear.

(08-10-2021, 06:01 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I hope this is just posturing.  Maybe the Bates camp is asking for the moon, yet they still know that they'll eventually  take less, and this is the Bengals calling their bluff.  This could almost be a stalement by design.

That said, if this deal doesn't get done, and negotiations breaking down is indeed a long term problem, then it's hard for me not to think the Bengals are low-balling him.

Think of it from Bates' and his agent's perspective:  They know the risk in playing out a rookie deal.  They know that the tag amount for safeties is signifcantly lower than the top 5 highest paid.  Surely they want to avoid this.  They also know that all of the top 6 guys at the position fall between 14 mil and 15.2 mil; there is not a sizeable gap.  The market is pretty easy to identify and calculate.

So I find it almost impossible they'd overshoot this, to the point of ruining long-term security and taking a huge hit in pay on the tag vs. a new deal.  It would make no sense.

Like I said, this could be temporary.  I'm not going to assign blame right now.  Who knows what types of negotiating tactics are being used unless you're in the room.  But if the season opens up and he still isn't signed, I'm going to lean towards the Bengals offering way less than Bates overshooting a clear as day safety market.

PS If he doesn't get locked up that doesn't send a good message to some of the other guys on the team.  I've seen a handful of players talking up Bates this offseason, Von Bell in particular.  It wouldn't be a good look to not take care of your best player.  And franchising him isn't going to make a lot of people happy either.

Why would you lean towards Bates's corner if the season starts and no deal is done? Just asking, I don't know what kind of money is offered or asked for, to really form an opinion.

(08-10-2021, 04:20 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They have him this year and they can always franchise tag him for the next two years for significantly less money than a top-tier S contract would cost.

I agree, why sign him long term with all kinds of guaranteed money unless it is a team friendly deal. Safeties do get hurt, sign him long term and he suffers major injury we are screwed.

But I o hope we sign him long term if deal is team friendly

Not worried. The Bengals sign their own.