Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time

[sandwedge]

(08-11-2021, 09:18 AM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Stfu and pay the goddamn man.  Bates is a good guy he’s not asking for money he ain’t deserving of.  The guy is a damn super start ***** pay the man.  This team is a damn joke.

Huh? So tell us what the Bengals offered him and what Bates is asking.... You can't, so maybe you should just be quiet.

[WeezyBengal]

(08-10-2021, 07:04 PM)Synric Wrote: Not worried. The Bengals sign their own.

Not recently they haven't. 

Lawson, WJ3, Zeitler, Whitworth, now Bates, etc. 

[CJD]

The Bengals are in a tricky situation with Bates, because the contract he deserves, based on the market and what other top safeties have recently signed for, is more than what the franchise tag would cost the team in 2022.

Not to mention, he is playing on the cheap for 2021 (2.86M cap hit).

So the extension has to not only make Jessie Bates happy with his new AAV, which will likely be in the the 15 to 16 million dollar range, guaranteed money and/or upfront money that he deserves, but it also has to account for the fact that the Bengals could keep him through 2022 at a projected 16 million total for 2021 and 2022 (2022 safety FT projected to be about 13.5 M).

In baseball, a lot of young players will sign an extension through their arbitration years (for those unfamiliar, arbitration years are something that every player has at the beginning of their career when the player is technically still under team control, so they aren't a free agent but, if the team and player can't agree to a price, the amount of money they make is determined by a third party based on previous years' production. It usually doesn't make it to that point, but it can sometimes) and, in doing so, take less money in exchange for the certainty of payment. The player is, essentially, buying the team's control years because, otherwise, they'd be stuck negotiating a new contract every season for the next 3 years, which adds the pressure of needing to perform every single year or else getting a pay cut. And if they get injured, they're in even more trouble.

Bates is in a position where he kind of needs to accept a below market value offer right now if he wants to get the deal done because the Bengals essentially have him locked up through the end of 2023 for a total cost of 2.86M + 13.5M + 16.3M (120% franchise tag)= 32.5M over three years.

I'm honestly not surprised they can't come to an agreement at this point because both sides have too much to lose by giving any ground. One of the sides will need to concede something. Maybe that is the Bengals offering more guaranteed and upfront money in exchange for a lower AAV than what the market would indicate for Bates or maybe Bates keeps the final year of his rookie contract in place, lowering the total AAV of his contract while still getting the money he deserves in the new extension years (similar to what Hubbard did).

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-11-2021, 09:56 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Not recently they haven't. 

Lawson, WJ3, Zeitler, Whitworth, now Bates, etc. 

There are reasons for not paying Lawson, WJ3 and Zeit. 

They were overpaid and I think we have upgraded over both Carl and WJ3 with Trey and Awuzie/Waynes.

Of course we should of paid Whit and we need to pay Bates.

[J24]

(08-11-2021, 12:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: There are reasons for not paying Lawson, WJ3 and Zeit. 

They were overpaid and I think we have upgraded over both Carl and WJ3 with Trey and Awuzie/Waynes.

Of course we should of paid Whit and we need to pay Bates.

Maybe they were overpaid but I would rather overpay them slightly then loose them. Especially Zeitler.

Who would you rather have Kevin Zeitler at Guard or Michael Jordan?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-11-2021, 01:26 PM)J24 Wrote: Maybe they were overpaid but I would rather overpay them slightly then loose them. Especially Zeitler.

Who would you rather have Kevin Zeitler at Guard or Michael Jordan?

Zeit was overpaid though by an extreme amount by the Stains. They made him the highest paid Guard in the NFL.

If you wanted to do that and lose Whit I don't know what to say except, I wouldn't of done it. Zeit is a good pass blocking Guard
but not near as good in run blocking. But of course you take Zeit over Jordan, I mean that goes without saying.

Now this FA, I was all for paying Zeit more than the team that got him, just didn't happen. He had to want to come here.

[J24]

(08-11-2021, 02:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Zeit was overpaid though by an extreme amount by the Stains. They made him the highest paid Guard in the NFL.

If you wanted to do that and lose Whit I don't know what to say except, I wouldn't of done it. Zeit is a good pass blocking Guard
but not near as good in run blocking. But of course you take Zeit over Jordan, I mean that goes without saying.

Now this FA, I was all for paying Zeit more than the team that got him, just didn't happen. He had to want to come here.

They could have easily signed Zeitler in the previous off-season and signed Whitworth. It was a major oversight by them.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-11-2021, 02:23 PM)J24 Wrote: They could have easily signed Zeitler in the previous off-season and signed Whitworth. It was a major oversight by them.

Yeah, that was what I wanted them to do. Probably the biggest mistakes we made in the last 10 to 20 years.

Whit was a no brainer to bring back and we all said so for the most part. We should of brought them both though.

Oh well, the past is the past. Sign Bates.

[XenoMorph]

(08-11-2021, 01:26 PM)J24 Wrote: Maybe they were overpaid but I would rather overpay them slightly then loose them. Especially Zeitler.

Who would you rather have Kevin Zeitler at Guard or Michael Jordan?

Zeitler never lived up to that contract though thats why he was traded and then released.

[J24]

(08-11-2021, 02:29 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Zeitler never lived up to that contract though thats why he was traded and then released.

He has been  a top 10 Guard for the past 4 seasons. Who cares if he wasn't the best? Also he he would have been a major improvement over what we had  since 2017!

[*ochocincos*]

(08-10-2021, 04:20 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They have him this year and they can always franchise tag him for the next two years for significantly less money than a top-tier S contract would cost.

Possibly.

With the cap likely jumping up another $20+ mill starting next year, salaries are likely going to really jump.

While the Bengals might save a few mill on next year's tag, it might be better in the long-term to get him signed to something like a 3-year or 4-year extension now at $14+ mill a year.

[Murdock2420]

How does steeler fanboy Fowler have inside information on this anyway?

He makes the tweet and all the salvation from steeler fans about Bates playing next to Minkah next season is comical.

If they don't agree on terms as others in the thread have said, Bates will most likely get the tag. This really seems like Fowler being used as a tool (fitting since he is a total tool) to help push the negotiations along.

[SadFaceBengal15]

(08-10-2021, 07:04 PM)Synric Wrote: Not worried. The Bengals sign their own.

Lmao this a joke right

[SadFaceBengal15]

(08-11-2021, 02:29 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Zeitler never lived up to that contract though thats why he was traded and then released.

Gosh people just talk out there ass

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-11-2021, 04:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Possibly.

With the cap likely jumping up another $20+ mill starting next year, salaries are likely going to really jump.

While the Bengals might save a few mill on next year's tag, it might be better in the long-term to get him signed to something like a 3-year or 4-year extension now at $14+ mill a year.

This is what I am thinking. 

Better to sign him now to a 4 year 14-15 mil per year contract in my honest opinion rather then going the tag route.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-11-2021, 04:30 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: How does steeler fanboy Fowler have inside information on this anyway?

He makes the tweet and all the salvation from steeler fans about Bates playing next to Minkah next season is comical.

If they don't agree on terms as others in the thread have said, Bates will most likely get the tag. This really seems like Fowler being used as a tool (fitting since he is a total tool) to help push the negotiations along.

Ah, he is an ESPN steeler fan eh? Makes me feel more like it is just a bunch of BS.

[*bfine32*]

(08-11-2021, 09:56 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Not recently they haven't. 

Lawson, WJ3, Zeitler, Whitworth, now Bates, etc. 

(08-11-2021, 04:44 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Lmao this a joke right

Carlos Dunlap: $40.5 Mil 2018

Geno Atkins:$65.2 Mil 2018

Gio Bernard: $10.3 Mil 2019

Tyler Boyd: $30.9 Mil 2019

Joe Mixon: $49.0 Mil 2020

Sam Hubbard: $40.0 Mil 2021

SadFaceBengal15 Wrote:Gosh people just talk out there ass

Yes they do

[Murdock2420]

(08-11-2021, 06:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Ah, he is an ESPN steeler fan eh? Makes me feel more like it is just a bunch of BS.

Yeah, I'm not sure if it was a fan for life thing or if he was like the Ben Baby version for the steelers but for a good amount of time, I just know the guy always gives the steelers the benefit of the doubt and spent several years hyping them. 

[*Nately120*]

(08-12-2021, 01:00 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Yeah, I'm not sure if it was a fan for life thing or if he was like the Ben Baby version for the steelers but for a good amount of time, I just know the guy always gives the steelers the benefit of the doubt and spent several years hyping them. 

When the Bengals go 17 years without a losing season we will probably be hyping them and giving them the benefit of the doubt, too. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-12-2021, 01:00 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Yeah, I'm not sure if it was a fan for life thing or if he was like the Ben Baby version for the steelers but for a good amount of time, I just know the guy always gives the steelers the benefit of the doubt and spent several years hyping them. 

Lots of those guys at ESPN.

(08-12-2021, 06:48 AM)Nately120 Wrote: When the Bengals go 17 years without a losing season we will probably be hyping them and giving them the benefit of the doubt, too. 

Still could never be a fan of those doosh bags, helps to have winning seasons when you have the refs on your side and you can 
hold all D-lines besides the Pats and cheat pretty damn blatantly cause everyone is on your side. Hope to see them finally be the 
basement team in the Division this year, but we say this every year.