(08-14-2021, 01:46 PM)Stewy Wrote: It isn't amazing.  That's the internet today.

I maintain that it is amazing that people think the human race being panicky and misinformed and running off half-cocked, so to speak, is some sort of new development.

(08-14-2021, 10:12 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Bates quotes comes off to me as, "I'll be headed to free agency to explore options." Obviously, it's not that simple for him but as a life long Bengals fan I feel this takes a turn for the worse. I hope not. He's a great player.

If Bates sees FA he’s likely not coming back. The FO’s penny pinching ways won’t stand up next to other organization’s offers. We’ve seen this before. If the team want a to sign Bates they better do it in the next year.

(08-14-2021, 12:55 PM)J24 Wrote: Jets
Also isn't Boomer what the kids call old people now a days?

I'm old but still GenX.

(08-14-2021, 11:27 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: MB does not value safeties or guards or LBs.  

MB has used a bunch of first round picks on LB.  So it is clear that he values them.

He also values OGs.  He used a first round pick on Zeitler when people like you claimed he never would.  He paid both Bobbie Williams and Clint Boling to keep them here.  Th two big names he let walk were overpaid.  Neither Steinbach or Zeitler played out those huge deals they signed.

(08-14-2021, 02:09 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: If Bates sees FA he’s likely not coming back.  The FO’s penny pinching ways won’t stand up next to other organization’s offers.  We’ve seen this before.  If the team want a to sign Bates they better do it in the next year.

Actually what we have seen before with top rated safeties is Reggie Nelson hitting free agency and the Bengal outbidding other teams to re-sign him.

(08-14-2021, 03:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually what we have seen before with top rated safeties is Reggie Nelson hitting free agency and the Bengal outbidding other teams to re-sign him.

A 25 year old, All Pro-caliber safety in Bates would be an overall top 5/top 10 free agent. Using a 29 year old Reggie Nelson as a comp isn’t exactly comparing apples to apples.

(08-14-2021, 03:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: MB has used a bunch of first round picks on LB.  So it is clear that he values them.

They haven't spent higher than a 3rd round pick on a linebacker in 13 years.  Their free agency signings are littered with guys who were signed on the cheap.  It's become pretty clear over the last 10+ years that this team doesn't value LB's like they used to.

(08-14-2021, 07:23 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: A 25 year old, All Pro-caliber safety in Bates would be an overall top 5/top 10 free agent.  Using a 29 year old Reggie Nelson as a comp isn’t exactly comparing apples to apples.

Alright, if you are going to play the "specific case" game then give me the history on which you are basing your opinion.

How exactly has Mike Brown acted every time he has dealt with re-signing a 25-year-old All Pro caliber safety?

(08-14-2021, 07:29 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: They haven't spent higher than a 3rd round pick on a linebacker in 13 years.  Their free agency signings are littered with guys who were signed on the cheap.  It's become pretty clear over the last 10+ years that this team doesn't value LB's like they used to.

Over the last 7 years the Bengals have used more picks from the first two days of the draft on LBs than any other position.  

(08-15-2021, 11:12 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Alright, if you are going to play the "specific case" game then give me the history on which you are basing your opinion.

How exactly has Mike Brown acted every time he has dealt with re-signing a 25-year-old All Pro caliber safety?

Specific case? I believe you specifically referred to Reggie Nelson originally, no? And how exactly has Mike Brown acted towards top tier free agents? Clearly not by signing them since when was the last time the Bengals signed one of the top overall free agents? Never?

(08-15-2021, 02:08 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: Specific case?  I believe you specifically referred to Reggie Nelson originally, no?  And how exactly has Mike Brown acted towards top tier free agents?  Clearly not by signing them since when was the last time the Bengals signed one of the top overall free agents?  Never?

Reader (4 yr $53 million) and Waynes (3 yr $42 million) last year and Hendrickson this year (4 yr $60 million).  

All 3 are in the top ten highest paid in the league at their position.  And, of course, since we are talking about keeping oine of our own players in Bates the Bengals have paid up many times to keep some of the best players in the league here (Palmer, Chad Johnson, Willie Anderson, Levi Jones, Dunlap, Atkins, Whitworth, Burfict, etc)

(08-15-2021, 02:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Reader (4 yr $53 million) and Waynes (3 yr $42 million) last year and Hendrickson this year (4 yr $60 million).  

All 3 are in the top ten highest paid in the league at their position.  And, of course, since we are talking about keeping oine of our own players in Bates the Bengals have paid up many times to keep some of the best players in the league here (Palmer, Chad Johnson, Willie Anderson, Levi Jones, Dunlap, Atkins, Whitworth, Burfict, etc)

A) None of those players you listed were in the top 5/top 10 overall free agents and B) the Bengals had to spend money last season in order to meet the salary cap floor outlined in the CBA. I’m not sure what point you’re getting at. That the Bengals have a history of spending top dollars in free agency? Clearly they don’t, both pre and post current CBA (didn’t even realize this was a debated topic lol)

(08-15-2021, 03:07 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: A) None of those players you listed were in the top 5/top 10 overall free agents and B) the Bengals had to spend money last season in order to meet the salary cap floor outlined in the CBA.  I’m not sure what point you’re getting at.  That the Bengals have a history of spending top dollars in free agency?  Clearly they don’t, both pre and post current CBA (didn’t even realize this was a debated topic lol)

Fred only debates it lol

Lately though we have done well in FA, at least the years that Taylor has got here the FO has tried. Bringing in Reader, Hendrickson
Ogunjobi, Reiff, Waynes, Awuzie, Hilton, Allen was definitely not what we are accustomed to around here. These guys are all top end
FA's. We usually brought in the AJ Hawk's who were washed up, nothing against Hawk, like the guy but he was not his young self.

Same with Dansby and others. These were the FA signings we were all used to.

(08-15-2021, 03:07 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: A) None of those players you listed were in the top 5/top 10 overall free agents and B) the Bengals had to spend money last season in order to meet the salary cap floor outlined in the CBA.  I’m not sure what point you’re getting at.  That the Bengals have a history of spending top dollars in free agency?  Clearly they don’t, both pre and post current CBA (didn’t even realize this was a debated topic lol)

If you are talking about top 5/top 10 overall free agents, a lot of them are severely overpaid by teams in need. Would you feel better if we overpaid?

(08-15-2021, 04:04 PM)Sled21 Wrote: If you are talking about top 5/top 10 overall free agents, a lot of them are severely overpaid by teams in need. Would you feel better if we overpaid?

I don't think we would see any less complaining if we did overpay for FA's.

(08-15-2021, 02:08 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote:  And how exactly has Mike Brown acted towards top tier free agents? 

(08-15-2021, 03:07 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: A) None of those players you listed were in the top 5/top 10 overall free agents 

DJ Reader got the 5th biggest contract in free agency in 2020.  Based on average yearly salary both Reader and Waynes were in the top ten.

This year Hendrickson got the 6th biggest contract in free agency.  His yearly average was 5th highest.

If you think Bates would get a lot more money than those guys you are completely clueless.

(08-15-2021, 02:08 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote:  when was the last time the Bengals signed one of the top overall free agents?  Never?

(08-15-2021, 03:07 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote:  I’m not sure what point you’re getting at.  

My point is that you were completely clueless when you claimed the Bengals had NEVER signed one of the top overall free agents.

Pretty simple and direct actually.  Kind of surprised that I have to spell it out for you.

(08-15-2021, 03:07 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: A) None of those players you listed were in the top 5/top 10 overall free agents and B) the Bengals had to spend money last season in order to meet the salary cap floor outlined in the CBA.  I’m not sure what point you’re getting at.  That the Bengals have a history of spending top dollars in free agency?  Clearly they don’t, both pre and post current CBA (didn’t even realize this was a debated topic lol)

I'm not entirely sure of the point your trying to make?

If you look back to the debacle of a deal for Antoino Bryant. The Family changed how they approach doing deals after that and its been a recipe that works... For the Family. In my eyes KB does an extraordinary job w/deals and not putting the organization in Cap hell in the process. They should be celebrated in that aspect. They'll give Bates his money but the one thing I know for certain is that the contract will be 60/40 towards the family. I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't sparring on the inner workings of "Thee" Burrow deal in closed circles. They always have the flexibility to get who they want at any time.

(08-16-2021, 02:11 AM)Emeritus Wrote:
If you look back to the debacle of a deal for Antoino Bryant. The Family changed how they approach doing deals after that and its been a recipe that works... For the Family. In my eyes KB does an extraordinary job w/deals and not putting the organization in Cap hell in the process. They should be celebrated in that aspect. They'll give Bates his money but the one thing I know for certain is that the contract will be 60/40 towards the family. I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't sparring on the inner workings of "Thee" Burrow deal in closed circles. They always have the flexibility to get who they want at any time.

That may be true, but I tend to believe that is pretty much the case in the NFL and most business.