(09-21-2021, 04:43 PM)jj22 Wrote: Just because someone is paid doesn't make them good. Not sure why some (1) keep equating the "10th highest paid RT" to mean he's a top 10 RT.

Are you claiming he is not good?

Having trouble keeping up again, I see.

Reiff played LT last year and only allowed 2 sacks in 1002 snaps.  According to Footballoutsiders he only had 20 blown blocks.

(09-20-2021, 01:02 PM)TrenchWarfare Wrote: The terrible play this weekend had little to do with Burrow and everything to do with a terrible OL. Two years in the offseason the front office overvalued their terrible OL and instead focused on DL (replacing Geno and Dunlap)...and boy did they ever. Two biggest FA signings last two years have been DL. More draft picks this year went to DL/OLB than OL.

Gift from the football gods is right...that's what we got in that Ohio kid. And we are on the path of destroying him/ him getting Bungled.

This isn't 4D chess. It isn't even stunts off the edges. It's the A and B gap. Our interior OL. It's not Burrow...although maybe he's not 100%. It's not the 'scheme.' Burrow said after the game they were sitting/jumping his routes cause they knew he wouldn't have time to throw it. I dont even think it's Zac. The FO needs to go. It's simple. Burrow needs people to block.

Steelers next week. With or without TJ...how many sacks do you think they'll get on Burrow? 3? 5? 10?

Not a pessimist, a realist. They need to make moves NOW. Can the Bengals afford three stud WRs AND a top 5 paid RB? What C or G could we get for Boyd. (I love Boyd by the way...but we need to improve that line.)

Pretty much. This team won’t win dick until they invest in a quality o-line. Furthermore, they’ll waste their franchise player until they invest.

(09-21-2021, 12:09 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: Burrow will not finish this season and I see about 5 wins if that.I believe Burrow is already getting that long look of defeat.He is not ready for the NFL and needs to heal up completely.He is not talking like a qb that is positive.We are going to go through another long long season and Zac will be here another year.INSANE.

Joe looks defeated and unfortunately looks to have zero mobility in the pocket.

(09-21-2021, 05:36 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Pretty much.  This team won’t win dick until they invest in a quality o-line.  Furthermore, they’ll waste their franchise player until they invest.

What do you mean by "invest"?

Use half of their last 4 first round picks on OL?

Trade for the 8th highest paid OT in the league?

Sign the 10th highest paid RT in free agency?

Seriously, people, this is getting kind of silly.  The Bengals have no made great choice with all their O-line moves.  But people who claim they are npot trying or don't care about the O-line are just ignoring reality.

(09-21-2021, 10:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This just is not true.  The following QBs had more knockdowns (QB hits + sacks) than Burrow's 81 and did not get injured

Cousins........123
Wilson..........122
Ryan............121
Herbert........110
Watson........ 98
Tannehill...... 90
Mahommes.. 87
Stafford....... 85
Brady.......... 84


People need to stop acting like Burrow is made of glass.  We will never be able to build a complete team if we have to spend every free agent dollar and every draft pick on the O-line to make sure Joe NEVER gets hit.

Stats are stats. It's hard to find a fan out there that thought Burrow had it easy last year. He took some huge shots and had no time to throw it. If you can't see that, I don't know what to say. The line has been horrible the past several years. This is common knowledge among football fans. I don't feel any urge to prove that to you. 

The other side of my argument is that we threw the ball way too much when eliminated from the playoffs. It has been common football knowledge from top coaches in the league that you protect your QB with your running game (and offensive line). I blame the organization for not giving him enough help along the oline. I blame the coaching for having him throw so much behind such a porous offensive line (when mathematically eliminated from the playoffs).

I hope to see Burrow recover fully physically and mentally. We'll see what happens. 

(09-21-2021, 09:43 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: . It has been common football knowledge from top coaches in the league that you protect your QB with your running game (and offensive line).

I blame the coaching for having him throw so much behind such a porous offensive line (when mathematically eliminated from the playoffs).

I don't know what NFL games you have been watching, but in every single one I see coaches do what they have to do to try and win every game.

Could you please give me a few examples of losing teams that don't throw the ball more when they are behind after they have been eliminated from the playoffs?  Because I just have not seen that at all.

We threw the ball a lot last year because we could not run and throwing was our only chance to be competitive.

(09-21-2021, 09:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know what NFL games you have been watching, but in every single one I see coaches do what they have to do to try and win every game.

Could you please give me a few examples of losing teams that don't throw the ball more when they are behind after they have been eliminated from the playoffs?  Because I just have not seen that at all.

We threw the ball a lot last year because we could not run and throwing was our only chance to be competitive.

I'm not saying not to throw the ball. I'm saying throw the ball close to half the time instead of 80% of the time. 

The NFL has changed and we are throwing it more. But you still have to be smart about it in my eyes. The more I have followed this organization, the more I see a lack of foresight. You need to think ahead in life. To me the Bengals seem to react after the fact instead of accurately predicting what's to come. Maybe you don't see it, and that's fine. But I'm not going to waste time looking up stats and trying to make a case when what I'm explaining is pretty easy and straightforward stuff. Think what you want to think. And respect to you and yours.

Again, I hope to see things turn around. I hope to see the organization, coaches, and players learn from their mistakes. That's all you can ask from anyone.

(09-21-2021, 04:35 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Side note: I'm assuming that the ***** is related to the p word for female genitalia which always seems like such an odd insult when calling someone weak or soft. That particular body part can stretch to push out a baby, take enormous abuse during reproduction and yet bounce back like nothing happened. Meanwhile, on the flip side, a simple knee to the male side of things leaves one on the ground vomitting and curled into a fetal position.


Not a shot at you Nate, just an observation about the common use of that as an insult and when you step back and think about it, it really isn't one. Anyways.... continue on now with the regularly scheduled debating of the team.

No it was the last part of sumbitch. That is the toughest thing in the world...

Maybe I should say tougher than Owl shit, they shit out mouse bones.

Is there anyone that actually thought that Reiff was a bad move?

I was and still am critical for the Bengals not fixing the offensive line. Did they address it? Sure, but they didn't address the right parts.

Reiff was a good move and Jonah is good when healthy. That being said, the real issue is and always has been the interior of the line. We really did nothing to address that in the offseason.

1. Returning a center coming off an ACL injury with no real back-up other than a rookie 5th round pick.
2. Returning Spain (who I feel is solid) and XSF who has always been an underachiever.
3. Drafting a rookie that has played LT his college career and is coming off a back injury and expecting something out of him his rookie year.

They did NOTHING to address AND improve the interior line for 2021.

(09-21-2021, 10:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No it was the last part of sumbitch. That is the toughest thing in the world...

Maybe I should say tougher than Owl shit, they shit out mouse bones.

Ouch... just ouch

(09-21-2021, 10:33 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Is there anyone that actually thought that Reiff was a bad move?  

I was and still am critical for the Bengals not fixing the offensive line.  Did they address it?  Sure, but they didn't address the right parts.

Reiff was a good move and Jonah is good when healthy.  That being said, the real issue is and always has been the interior of the line.  We really did nothing to address that in the offseason.

1.  Returning a center coming off an ACL injury with no real back-up other than a rookie 5th round pick.
2.  Returning Spain (who I feel is solid) and XSF who has always been an underachiever.
3.  Drafting a rookie that has played LT his college career and is coming off a back injury and expecting something out of him his rookie year.

They did NOTHING to address AND improve the interior line for 2021.

We will see how Jackson Carman and HOPEFULLY Trey Hill play before I can say that Hammerstripes...

(09-21-2021, 10:33 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Ouch... just ouch

Yeah. 

(09-21-2021, 10:33 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote:  That being said, the real issue is and always has been the interior of the line. 

Last year Bobby Hart was as bad as our OGs.  If we had signed one of the top OGs in the league but not replaced Hart you would be saying that HE was the biggest problem.  

Trey Hopkins is not a weakness.  He has been an above average starter.

(09-21-2021, 10:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Last year Bobby Hart was as bad as our OGs.  If we had signed one of the top OGs in the league but not replaced Hart you would be saying that HE was the biggest problem.  

Trey Hopkins is not a weakness.  He has been an above average starter.

Just not so far this year. Trey Hop HAS been the biggest weakness on the OL in the first two games this year no doubt about it.

Joe Burrow has to play like a hero on every snap to overcome bad play calling and inconsistent offensive line play. This is too much to ask of any player, period. Not even Tom Brady could succeed under the current conditions under which the Bengals’ offense operates. Right now the Bengals are averaging 22 points per game and the defense is allowing 18.5 points per game; on most teams this would mean 2-0 but interceptions and fumbles are ruining scoring drives.

Those interceptions are on Joe himself but also on Zac Taylor who called the worst game I’ve ever seen with respect to offense. The Bears’ secondary was waiting at the end of each route and Zac never changed his strategy. He kept calling predictable pass plays over and over and it’s a miracle Joe wasn’t picked off more than three times.

(09-21-2021, 10:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Just not so far this year. Trey Hop HAS been the biggest weakness on the OL in the first two games this year no doubt about it.

He had a bad first game but bounced back against Chicago. I'd say, overall, XFS has been the weakest link overall. I wouldn't mind getting Carman in there and put X where he belongs, as a quality backup. 

(09-21-2021, 11:19 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He had a bad first game but bounced back against Chicago. I'd say, overall, XFS has been the weakest link overall. I wouldn't mind getting Carman in there and put X where he belongs, as a quality backup. 

Saw a few bad plays by Hop against the Bears too that either resulted in a sack or pressures. XSF had a great run block in game 1 
against the Vikes that sprung Mixon for a big gain. XSF did have a bad game against the Bears though. Agree he should be the back 
up to Carman and let him grow. Cannot do worse than Hopkins and XSF IMO. I love Trey Hill's anchor and Carman is my fave OL 
pick of the Draft even though D'Ante seems like a major steal.

We have options Thank God. We will see if Pollack can put it all together. Quite the puzzle.

(09-21-2021, 11:14 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Joe Burrow has to play like a hero on every snap to overcome bad play calling and inconsistent offensive line play.  This is too much to ask of any player, period.  Not even Tom Brady could succeed under the current conditions under which the Bengals’ offense operates.  Right now the Bengals are averaging 22 points per game and the defense is allowing 18.5 points per game; on most teams this would mean 2-0 but interceptions and fumbles are ruining scoring drives.  

Those interceptions are on Joe himself but also on Zac Taylor who called the worst game I’ve ever seen with respect to offense.  The Bears’ secondary was waiting at the end of each route and Zac never changed his strategy.  He kept calling predictable pass plays over and over and it’s a miracle Joe wasn’t picked off more than three times.

Last game was so frustrating because it constantly felt like they would take one step forward and two steps back. So many missed opportunities. Missed scoop and score from Wilson, dropped long pass by Higgins, untimely 3rd down sacks, four straight turnovers and then the capper, Hendrickson missing the tackle on Fields on 3rd down late. One more step and it could have been a strip sack. 

Just so frustrating because they should have won that game...but like in Bengals fashion, at some point it would go to their head and they'd drop a different winnable game. I'm gonna keep the fingers crossed that this was a very stinging, very early season loss that teaches them a bit of a lession to prepare and focus every single week no matter the opponent. 

(09-21-2021, 09:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What do you mean by "invest"?

Use half of their last 4 first round picks on OL?

Trade for the 8th highest paid OT in the league?

Sign the 10th highest paid RT in free agency?

Seriously, people, this is getting kind of silly.  The Bengals have no made great choice with all their O-line moves.  But people who claim they are npot trying or don't care about the O-line are just ignoring reality.

They haven't done enough. OL makes up (roughly) 20% of the roster, larger than any other unit. We knew the last two off seasons we had the worst in the NFL. And we luckily landed a gift in Burrow. The moment we drafted Burrow the focus should have been on protecting him. Year we got Burrow we drafted 1 OL (5th round) and 3 LBers. Big FA signings last two years were DL. Feels like some are rushing to make excuses for the FO's terrible personnel decisions. 

That's in the past. And the writing appears to be on the wall again this year....We are on track to have Brandon Allen starting again for us...sooner than week 11. I don't think as fans should be ok with that. 

In short, I am 'worried about Burrow.' The front office two offseasons in a row now have overvalued of their existing OL and overvalued the moves via draft and FA. They deserve a great deal of criticism and they need to do better. I am not sure what can be done now but I am not ready to throw in the towel saying the personnel we have is the best Burrow can get this entire 17 game season. 

(09-22-2021, 09:33 AM)TrenchWarfare Wrote: They haven't done enough. OL makes up (roughly) 20% of the roster, larger than any other unit. We knew the last two off seasons we had the worst in the NFL. And we luckily landed a gift in Burrow. The moment we drafted Burrow the focus should have been on protecting him. Year we got Burrow we drafted 1 OL (5th round) and 3 LBers. Big FA signings last two years were DL. Feels like some are rushing to make excuses for the FO's terrible personnel decisions. 

That's in the past. And the writing appears to be on the wall again this year....We are on track to have Brandon Allen starting again for us...sooner than week 11. I don't think as fans should be ok with that. 

In short, I am 'worried about Burrow.' The front office two offseasons in a row now have overvalued of their existing OL and overvalued the moves via draft and FA. They deserve a great deal of criticism and they need to do better. I am not sure what can be done now but I am not ready to throw in the towel saying the personnel we have is the best Burrow can get this entire 17 game season. 

Good post Trench.  I remember Mike Brown saying to paraphrase "the offensive line is going to surprise people this year."  Well, color me surprised!