(11-08-2021, 03:22 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I wouldnt mind seeing ZT fired at the end of the year
And Lewis brought on as a HC. 
Think about what he accomplished in his tenure
Without the free agency dollars that has been allicated to ZT.

Seems the Vikings press would trade HCs with us:

https://thevikingage.com/2021/11/08/5-offensive-coaches-minnesota-vikings-replace-mike-zimmer/

Quote:After eight games this season, the Minnesota Vikings are 3-5, and all five of their losses have been by one score.


When a team loses that many close games, it usually has to do with a few coaching mistakes such as confusion about timeouts (Mike Zimmer not knowing how many he has or the quarterback not knowing if he is able to call a timeout) or preventable 12-men on the field penalties in crucial defensive situations.

With Zimmer’s seat getting hotter as the weather outside is getting colder, it might be time for the Vikings to start thinking about the next era for their franchise.

Speaking of eras, there has been a recent transition in the NFL where younger, offensive minded coaches are seeing more head coaching opportunities. Zac Taylor (38) taking over the Cincinnati Bengals, Kliff Kingsbury (42) with the Arizona Cardinals, Matt LeFleur (41) with the Green Bay Packers, and of course, Sean McVay (34) lighting the league on fire with the Los Angeles Rams are just a few examples.

These offensive coaches are able to adapt to the ever-changing style of play that makes football so beautiful.

(11-08-2021, 04:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I was one of Martin's biggest supporters. I still defend him and point out how he was handicapped by the front office's free agency policy.

But even I don't want to bring him back. That ship has sailed.

Agreed, while I'd love to see Marvin still working with the team in the front office. His days as headcoach are over. It has passed him by, it happens to all coaches at some point.

(11-07-2021, 11:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The majority of the board didn't hate Andy..

Seemed that way to me, think you called them the Carson Calvary even. 

Because all that had Carsons back was going down swinging that they were right and Carson was wronged. 

Palmer was a quitter to me, so I just judged by Andy's play. 

Believe I may have been the only one to suggest keeping Andy and fixing the O-line first instead of drafting Burrow too.  Pretty sure almost 100% on this board was ready to move on from Dalton and use that #1 pick on a generational QB. 

All that being said, I like Burrow, support him and think he will be elite one day as well. But he is having some major growing pains presently.

(11-08-2021, 10:32 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Seemed that way to me, think you called them the Carson Calvary even. 

Because all that had Carsons back was going down swinging that they were right and Carson was wronged. 

Palmer was a quitter to me, so I just judged by Andy's play. 

Believe I may have been the only one to suggest keeping Andy and fixing the O-line first instead of drafting Burrow too.  Pretty sure almost 100% on this board was ready to move on from Dalton and use that #1 pick on a generational QB. 

All that being said, I like Burrow, support him and think he will be elite one day as well. But he is having some major growing pains presently.

You were not the only one:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-What-About-a-“Bridge”-Quarterback-in-2020

(11-08-2021, 11:22 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: You were not the only one:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-What-About-a-“Bridge”-Quarterback-in-2020

That's why you are amongst my favorite posters

(11-08-2021, 04:07 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Normally I agree with you, but we're better this year than any of Marvin's last 3 seasons.

The 2018 Bengal team was also 5-4 with victories over 2 playoff teams (Colts, Ravens)

(11-08-2021, 05:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Seems the Vikings press would trade HCs with us:

https://thevikingage.com/2021/11/08/5-offensive-coaches-minnesota-vikings-replace-mike-zimmer/

"Speaking of eras, there has been a recent transition in the NFL where younger, offensive minded coaches are seeing more head coaching opportunities. Zac Taylor (38) taking over the Cincinnati Bengals, Kliff Kingsbury (42) with the Arizona Cardinals, Matt LeFleur (41) with the Green Bay Packers, and of course, Sean McVay (34) lighting the league on fire with the Los Angeles Rams are just a few examples.

These offensive coaches are able to adapt to the ever-changing style of play that makes football so beautiful."

(11-09-2021, 01:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The 2018 Bengal team was also 5-4 with victories over 2 playoff teams (Colts, Ravens)

I like our odds of finishing with more than 6 wins.

I saw your thread though. Very interesting comparison.

"Bring back Marvin Lewis" is the one move that would send me overboard. No way. I would rather they try and fail than return to that purgatory.

Joe Burrow having 16 interceptions in his first 19 starts certainly isn't ideal but it's really not all that uncommon.

Notable first 19 start INT numbers:

-Tom Brady: 18 INTs
-Aaron Rodgers: 13 INTs
-Peyton Manning: 33 INTs
-Ben Roethlisberger: 13 INTs
-Russell Wilson: 13 INTs pic.twitter.com/K9tOUWzxzA

— Willie Lutz (@willie_lutz) November 9, 2021

(11-09-2021, 11:49 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Joe Burrow having 16 interceptions in his first 19 starts certainly isn't ideal but it's really not all that uncommon.

Notable first 19 start INT numbers:

-Tom Brady: 18 INTs
-Aaron Rodgers: 13 INTs
-Peyton Manning: 33 INTs
-Ben Roethlisberger: 13 INTs
-Russell Wilson: 13 INTs pic.twitter.com/K9tOUWzxzA

— Willie Lutz (@willie_lutz) November 9, 2021

All I know is that 11 INTs in 9 starts this year is a lot worse than 5 INTs in 10 starts last year.

Also, most of the examples this guy used are from 20 years ago. Times have changed. INT rates league-wide are way down. By today's standards, Burrow's INT rate is through the roof.

(11-10-2021, 12:39 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: All I know is that 11 INTs in 9 starts this year is a lot worse than 5 INTs in 10 starts last year.

Also, most of the examples this guy used are from 20 years ago. Times have changed. INT rates league-wide are way down. By today's standards, Burrow's INT rate is through the roof.

Want some more recent ones?


Kyler Murray - 17 INT’s in his first 19 starts

Josh Allen - 19 INT’s in his first 19 starts


And those are just a couple of the better young QB’s I picked at random. The guy’s point stands. It’s pretty common for QB’s to throw a lot of picks in their first couple seasons.

(11-10-2021, 12:39 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: All I know is that 11 INTs in 9 starts this year is a lot worse than 5 INTs in 10 starts last year.

Also, most of the examples this guy used are from 20 years ago. Times have changed. INT rates league-wide are way down. By today's standards, Burrow's INT rate is through the roof.

You know what’s impressive though? All those ints, and still top 10 in passer rating

I just hope JB throws more INTs so he'll be more like the good young QBs

(11-10-2021, 01:19 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I just hope JB throws more INTs so he'll be more like the good young QBs

Huh?

The turnover worthy play rate is interesting to look at here. Yes, Joe is leading the league in picks (obviously bad), but is 25th in TWP’s.

Joe Burrow in the Bengals first half of the season:

Passing Grade: 81.4 (11th)
Big Time Throw Rate: 5.2% (12th)
Turnover Worthy Play Rate: 3.5% (25th)
Avg Depth of Target: 8.9 (11th)
Passer Rating: 102.6 (9th)
Adjusted Completion %: 77.0% (14th)

— Andrew Russell (@PFF_AndrewR) November 9, 2021

(11-08-2021, 10:32 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Seemed that way to me, think you called them the Carson Calvary even. 

Because all that had Carsons back was going down swinging that they were right and Carson was wronged. 

Palmer was a quitter to me, so I just judged by Andy's play. 

Believe I may have been the only one to suggest keeping Andy and fixing the O-line first instead of drafting Burrow too.  Pretty sure almost 100% on this board was ready to move on from Dalton and use that #1 pick on a generational QB. 

All that being said, I like Burrow, support him and think he will be elite one day as well. But he is having some major growing pains presently.

(11-08-2021, 11:22 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: You were not the only one:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-What-About-a-“Bridge”-Quarterback-in-2020

I don't post enough to hit every thread and usually avoid the off-season as much as I can but I was 100% up for trading down with Carolina at #7, which was the highest drafted team asking for Burrow. I fear Andrew Luck syndrome, especially with this o-line in this division. After that, if other teams were willing to give me a 2021 1st round pick and or more to move up to #7 in 2020, I'd have probably taken every trade. I would have traded down again into the late teens, high 20s and drafted mostly O-line and LBs. I loved what they did last year with all three LBs. All of them were team captains. Good character guys to add to the locker room.

I would have extended Dalton through next year, with Zac telling him in 2020 . . .

"We passed on Burrow, we're getting O-line and riding Joe Mixon, who's in his prime and just signed a new contract. Go study the run first game plan of 2009 with Benson and Palmer. This is your last chance to prove to me that you're my guy. If not, we have three 1st round picks to get a QB in 2021. Oh, and Andy? Imagine success and instead of us packaging those three 1st round picks to get your replacement . . . imagine us sitting on all of those high picks and going BPA."

That's why I wanted to trade down. Take advantage of all of that potential draft capitol instead of burning it all on one player and hope he survives on a shit team. I think he's a great young QB that is still learning in a difficult, difficult division. None of the teams are great, but all of them are good. He got lucky and missed TJ Watt once this year. I wouldn't count on missing him next time. I'm only worried about his health and hope that he doesn't start hearing footsteps that aren't there. Other than that? Meh, he'll be fine.

(11-10-2021, 01:16 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Want some more recent ones?


Kyler Murray - 17 INT’s in his first 19 starts

Josh Allen - 19 INT’s in his first 19 starts


And those are just a couple of the better young QB’s I picked at random. The guy’s point stands. It’s pretty common for QB’s to throw a lot of picks in their first couple seasons.

Another thing to look at is INT %, where Burrow is still very low. He has an INT% of 2.3% through these 19 games. Part of the concern is the Jekyll/Hyde contrast of last season vs. this season. The rest of Burrow's game is top-notch and I don't believe his elevated INT % is going to remain this high as he continues progressing. They are a concern this season, but I am not really concerned with them from a progression standpoint. 

The Bengals are 2-0 when JB doesnt throw
A INT. 3-4 when he does. A QBs 1st job is to protect
The football. I think 3 or 4 INTs have been because
He has simply stared down his target.
2 INTs have been returned for TDs.
I think going back to more play action attempts
Will decrease his high risk throws.
Right he looks like a average QB who is getting
Outplayed by lesser QBs.

(11-10-2021, 02:58 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The turnover worthy play rate is interesting to look at here. Yes, Joe is leading the league in picks (obviously bad), but is 25th in TWP’s.

Joe Burrow in the Bengals first half of the season:

Passing Grade: 81.4 (11th)
Big Time Throw Rate: 5.2% (12th)
Turnover Worthy Play Rate: 3.5% (25th)
Avg Depth of Target: 8.9 (11th)
Passer Rating: 102.6 (9th)
Adjusted Completion %: 77.0% (14th)

— Andrew Russell (@PFF_AndrewR) November 9, 2021

Part of it is bad luck, when he makes turnover worthy plays they are usually turnovers...for a lot of people they get dropped. That is why a lot of these things have to be looked at in context. For instance, Mahomes has had years with high turnover worth plays but a ton of them were just dropped so his INT numbers didn't look awful.