(12-23-2021, 03:43 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: I don't have anything against zac I wish him all the success in the world obviously;but just stating facts here with his lack of a resume and his horrible first 2 seasons he's lucky he kept his job...The lions fired Jim Caldwell after making the playoffs in all 3 seasons, I've seen coaches canned for far less..I  personally think we made the right decision to keep him on,but zac the play caller should be over IMO..

....and they ain't been shit since Caldwell left.

(12-23-2021, 05:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Cannot disagree with any of this, great post. Made me feel better about keeping Zac and Lou around even if we don't make the
Playoffs. It definitely depends on how it goes from here on out though, before the season I said if Zac can't make the Playoffs and
win a game we need to move on, put up or shut up time. Still feel the same, but I do feel better about keeping him around now 
cause of the things you mentioned along with the added assistant coaches in Pollack, Hobby, Golden and Walters who have been
very good.

I said if they won 9 or more games, I'd be ok....welp, we're almost there.

(12-23-2021, 02:43 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Kevin Hardy got a big chunk of change, but disappointed. Duane Clemons. Kim Herring. A few others. He mainly reshaped the defense completely and left the offense alone because most of the pieces were already in place.

Forgot about Hardy and Clemons. 

As to the rest of your post, you have a good point, Marvin had a much better roster from the jump. That's why in another thread I disagreed strongly with someone who said this team wasn't on life support before Zac took the job.

(12-23-2021, 07:13 PM)Wyche Wrote: I said if they won 9 or more games, I'd be ok....welp, we're almost there.

Yeah, I said make the Playoffs which could happen too. One thing about having 17 games you might have to win more
than 9 games. Hope the 9 wins happen Sunday, I don't think the Browns beat the Packers Saturday. As SHRacer said in 
another thread it would be phenomenal if we were able to win the next 2 and just be able to rest our starters against 
the Stains as we would already have a home game and the Division locked up.

I don't like threads like this that are designed to get fans fighting amongst themselves.

If I defend Marvin then it seems like I am attacking Zac.

You simply can not compare the two because Taylor is getting hundreds of millions of dollars worth of top end free agents. There is no way to tell what Marvin could have done with that type of support.

(12-23-2021, 07:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't like threads like this that are designed to get fans fighting amongst themselves.

If I defend Marvin then it seems like I am attacking Zac.

You simply can not compare the two because Taylor is getting hundreds of millions of dollars worth of top end free agents.  There is no way to tell what Marvin could have done with that type of support.

Completely agree fredtoast..people gotta understand that Marvin took over a roster that's never had any success at all, on the contrary zac took over a roster boasting a pro bowl quarterback 1st round receiver in John Ross-with Tyler boyd and could only win 2 games..Marvin had almost that exact same roster and had them at 4-1 the season before..

(12-23-2021, 06:51 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Marvin wouldn't have survived 2010 on 95% of NFL teams.

We had a 10 game losing streak that year.

(12-23-2021, 07:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't like threads like this that are designed to get fans fighting amongst themselves.

If I defend Marvin then it seems like I am attacking Zac.

You simply can not compare the two because Taylor is getting hundreds of millions of dollars worth of top end free agents. There is no way to tell what Marvin could have done with that type of support.

I intended for a good discussion, and so far that's what we've had.

I will say this, though. You and many people in this thread are turning this into a Zac vs Marvin discussion, when if you actually take the time to read the OP, that wasn't the intent at all.

I was asking if we should credit Zac with reshaping the roster like we did with Marvin, and if that is enough to excuse keeping him around even if we go 0-3 at the end. People are just getting hung up on the thread title, which I admit was kinda lazy and not all that indicative of what I'm really asking.

That said, I didn't want the title to be a mile long, so...

(12-23-2021, 06:51 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Marvin wouldn't have survived 2010 on 95% of NFL teams.

Maybe not 95%, but Zac doesn't survive after 2020 for a large portion of NFL teams. I know off the field played a role, but Urban Meyer was just shown the door after already equaling Zac's first year win total (which in Jacksonville's case was an improvement). Meyer was brought in specifically to build a roster too. At any rate; it's hard to survive 3 wins per in your first two NFL seasons.

(12-23-2021, 09:04 PM)jason Wrote: Maybe not 95%, but Zac doesn't survive after 2020 for a large portion of NFL teams. I know off the field played a role, but Urban Meyer was just shown the door after already equaling Zac's first year win total (which in Jacksonville's case was an improvement). Meyer was brought in specifically to build a roster too. At any rate; it's hard to survive 3 wins per in your first two NFL seasons.

Meyer is different though, nobody liked him lol

No doubt Taylor's first 2 seasons were terrible, this was the make or break year. We will see how him and his team end it.

(12-23-2021, 09:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Meyer is different though, nobody liked him lol

No doubt Taylor's first 2 seasons were terrible, this was the make or break year. We will see how him and his team end it.

Oh he's already made it his make year. There's no way in hell I see them firing him. All we can do is get behind the guy, and hope they pull something off this year... And in the years to come.

Marvin in 2 rounds.

(12-23-2021, 11:38 PM)Destro Wrote: Marvin in 2 rounds.

Idk Zac can flip that crazy switch…

(12-23-2021, 09:20 PM)jason Wrote: Oh he's already made it his make year. There's no way in hell I see them firing him. All we can do is get behind the guy, and hope they pull something off this year... And in the years to come.

Exactly! We are in the middle of a playoff run, something we haven't done in 6 years. We should be excited and getting behind everybody on that sideline.

(12-23-2021, 10:30 AM)dr tarzan Wrote: The biggest diff between Marv and Zac......Zac can beat the Stealers.....I don't care if we go 2-14 as long as both wins are against that Franchise....something I've said since the Steal Curtain days.

The biggest difference between Marv and Zac is Marv had Andy Dalton to build around and Zac has Burrow.

(12-24-2021, 06:46 AM)Waite Hoyt Wrote: The biggest difference between Marv and Zac is Marv had Andy Dalton to build around and Zac has Burrow.

Marvin also had his own Heisman winning - #1OA QB before Dalton.

(12-24-2021, 06:54 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Marvin also had his own Heisman winning - #1OA QB before Dalton.

This^

Both coaches got pretty lucky landing clear-cut #1 QB's in both those drafts.

I will say this: Marv coached during a tougher time - when the NFL officiating turned a blind eye to all the shit the Steelers were pulling. Nobody could or would do anything about it no matter how flagrant the fouls the Steelers committed or how loud anybody complained.

(12-24-2021, 08:16 AM)Interceptor Wrote: I will say this: Marv coached during a tougher time - when the NFL officiating turned a blind eye to all the shit the Steelers were pulling. Nobody could or would do anything about it no matter how flagrant the fouls the Steelers committed or how loud anybody complained.

1000% agree

(12-23-2021, 08:53 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I was asking if we should credit Zac with reshaping the roster like we did with Marvin, and if that is enough to excuse keeping him around even if we go 0-3 at the end. 

Marvin rebuilt the roster with mostly mid tier free agents.  Zac got a lot more top players.

Here is a comparison between the per-year salaries of the top free agents Marvin signed to rebuild the roster and the guys Zac got.  (The salaries of Marvin's signings have been adjusted to today's dollars based on the increase of the salary cap from &75 million in 2003 to $182 today) 

Thornton ($9.1) + Hardy ($8.5) + James ($8.7) + Kelly ($4.0) + Clemmons ($2.8) + Herring ($5.5) + O'Neal ($4.1) + Nate Webster ($5.4) = $48.1

Hendrickson ($15.0) + Trae Waynes ($14.0) + Reader ($13.3M) + Riley Reiff ($7.5M) + Awuzie ($7.3M) + Ogunjobi ($6.2 M) + Bell ($6.0) + Hilton ($6.0) = $75.3

You can see that they are not even in the same ballpark. Zac at over 50% more than what Marvin got.