I have thought a lot about this since Sunday. I usually comment more or make threads that are more X and O centric as that is what I think about when it comes to winning. For the last few years we have had people here who took every chance they could get to discredit the cultural changes that were occurring. I in some of these cases was one of those skeptics on how it would help the team actually win. No single change was a magic bullet but the sum of the pieces have definitely contributed to turning the organizational culture around.

Ownership: In hindsight we made the right pick with Zach, but how did we get there? We had a group beyond just Mike Brown that relied on Katie Blackburn, but also Duke Tobin and others who were open to finding the next big thing rather than a retread or easy choice. We went after a guy who may have been a year or two off from being ready but we weren't in a position to get the top guy when he is the top guy so they gambled on getting the top guy before he was fully baked. A lot of organizations play it safe and take the retread, we took a risk and it worked.

Coaching: Zac came in and wanted a very specific staff. Did he make some mistakes? Sure, Pollack getting away in favor of turner was a bump in the road but he learned and moved forward. His coordinator positions were often questioned but he had faith in these guys who many other didn't, and it would have been easy to sacrifice them after the first two years like most organizations but we stayed the course. Now both look to be on the road to getting HC shots in the future.

Roster Construction: This was a huge undertaking no matter what anyone wants to say. The roster when Taylor got here was not good as it was filled with aging vets and guys who frankly were to engrained in their ways to buy in to a new approach. We had to move on from many long time staples, and sometimes that was ugly, but it was the right move for the culture. The organization set out to spend in FA, but spend on players who fit both schematically and culturally. While someone like Waynes didn't pan out many of those free agents did, and even some of the bets they made in letting our good players leave to bring in replacements who on paper were arguably downgrades was a huge change. For years our motto was keep our own, but we knew our own weren't going to get it done.

Draft: It's easy to look at Burrow and end this point here because culturally speaking he is the kind of person you want on your team, but it actually goes further than that. Early on when Taylor was here there was an emphasis on drafting guys of high character, guys who were captains. Did we kill every pick? No, but what we did was built a roster of guys who you can trust to handle adversity and bounce back which we have done this year well.

Game Experience: People laughed at things like Elizabeth Blackburn coming in and improving our game day experience or our social media experience. People would quip that it wouldn't lead to wins on the field, but good engagement helps create better fans and better fans create a better home field experience as well as helps keep players in the organization. The uniforms were similar, anyone who has coached knows that players feel good when they think they look good and letting this group experience a little bit of an overhaul definitely helped energize them this year.

Ring of honor: What do names on a stadium have to do with winning? Pride in who you are and where you come from means a lot. Recognizing the past helps create a pride for the team and makes it a more desirable place to be.

People will probably come here and say most of these things have nothing to do with winning, but I'll disagree. Players are humans, and even though it's their job it doesn't mean they are going to bring the energy to perform it well everyday just because they get a check. We had that for years, even when we had success, and it didn't evolve into a true culture people wanted to be a part of long term. You hear a lot from our players, especially the free agents that have gotten here in the last two years, the culture is different and it makes this place a place people want to be. It's a team first place and a place I think we will see free agents flock to over the next couple years. Sure, Joe Burrow will be a big selling point but there is going to be a lot more to it I think when those players start talking.

What was it? A month ago we had a similar thread about the culture and people were trying to argue it hasn’t changed. That Zac was way underachieving with this team lol… just wait until those people get in here the week before the Super Bowl to make that same argument lmao

(02-02-2022, 03:48 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: What was it? A month ago we had a similar thread about the culture and people were trying to argue it hasn’t changed. That Zac was way underachieving with this team lol… just wait until those people get in here the week before the Super Bowl to make that same argument lmao

Yea, that stuff was weird because no one in the NFL looked at this as a top 10 roster coming into the year. People were using results to change the narrative of what the roster was coming into the year, which was a lot of young and unproven players along with mid tier free agents (couple were high end but with question marks). I mention it from time to time,  but I know people involved in the league and can tell you nobody thought this roster was good outside of the offensive skill positions having the chance to be really good at some point. 

(02-02-2022, 03:43 PM)Au165 Wrote: I have thought a lot about this since Sunday. I usually comment more or make threads that are more X and O centric as that is what I think about when it comes to winning. For the last few years we have had people here who took every chance they could get to discredit the cultural changes that were occurring. I in some of these cases was one of those skeptics on how it would help the team actually win. No single change was a magic bullet but the sum of the pieces have definitely contributed to turning the organizational culture around.

Ownership: In hindsight we made the right pick with Zach, but how did we get there? We had a group beyond just Mike Brown that relied on Katie Blackburn, but also Duke Tobin and others who were open to finding the next big thing rather than a retread or easy choice. We went after a guy who may have been a year or two off from being ready but we weren't in a position to get the top guy when he is the top guy so they gambled on getting the top guy before he was fully baked. A lot of organizations play it safe and take the retread, we took a risk and it worked.

Coaching: Zac came in and wanted a very specific staff. Did he make some mistakes? Sure, Pollack getting away in favor of turner was a bump in the road but he learned and moved forward. His coordinator positions were often questioned but he had faith in these guys who many other didn't, and it would have been easy to sacrifice them after the first two years like most organizations but we stayed the course. Now both look to be on the road to getting HC shots in the future.

Roster Construction: This was a huge undertaking no matter what anyone wants to say. The roster when Taylor got here was not good as it was filled with aging vets and guys who frankly were to engrained in their ways to buy in to a new approach. We had to move on from many long time staples, and sometimes that was ugly, but it was the right move for the culture. The organization set out to spend in FA, but spend on players who fit both schematically and culturally. While someone like Waynes didn't pan out many of those free agents did, and even some of the bets they made in letting our good players leave to bring in replacements who on paper were arguably downgrades was a huge change. For years our motto was keep our own, but we knew our own weren't going to get it done.

Draft: It's easy to look at Burrow and end this point here because culturally speaking he is the kind of person you want on your team, but it actually goes further than that. Early on when Taylor was here there was an emphasis on drafting guys of high character, guys who were captains. Did we kill every pick? No, but what we did was built a roster of guys who you can trust to handle adversity and bounce back which we have done this year well.

Game Experience: People laughed at things like Elizabeth Blackburn coming in and improving our game day experience or our social media experience. People would quip that it wouldn't lead to wins on the field, but good engagement helps create better fans and better fans create a better home field experience as well as helps keep players in the organization. The uniforms were similar, anyone who has coached knows that players feel good when they think they look good and letting this group experience a little bit of an overhaul definitely helped energize them this year.

Ring of honor: What do names on a stadium have to do with winning? Pride in who you are and where you come from means a lot. Recognizing the past helps create a pride for the team and makes it a more desirable place to be.

People will probably come here and say most of these things have nothing to do with winning, but I'll disagree. Players are humans, and even though it's their job it doesn't mean they are going to bring the energy to perform it well everyday just because they get a check. We had that for years, even when we had success, and it didn't evolve into a true culture people wanted to be a part of long term. You hear a lot from our players, especially the free agents that have gotten here in the last two years, the culture is different and it makes this place a place people want to be. It's a team first place and a place I think we will see free agents flock to over the next couple years. Sure, Joe Burrow will be a big selling point but there is going to be a lot more to it I think when those players start talking.

Awesome post Au165.  Wanted to add, many on here did not believe Lou and Taylor were the right options to turn things around because of past performance.  But Burrow has always stated that Taylor was the right person for the Job.  Always.  

Also, I think Elizabeth changed more than just the social media and game experience, and even uniforms.  Elizabeth changed the ease to become a fan of the Bengals.  There are more Bengal fans world wide than I can remember at any other time.  Some of it is the uniforms, social media, and of course winning.  But Also, I think it brought us together as a group and family.  

Totally agree! This year has been a top to bottom shift and it's showed. Everyone is more engaged and that foundation was perfect to be sitting where we are today. Love it.

the biggest culture change was Going out and Buying our Defense... And it worked well

(02-02-2022, 04:20 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: the biggest culture change was Going out and Buying our Defense... And it worked well

Even the people we bought though...they weren't big name players they were guys from winning organizations who were "lunch pale" selfless players. It's kind of my point, everything we did had an underlying cultural impact. 

(02-02-2022, 04:20 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: the biggest culture change was Going out and Buying our Defense... And it worked well

The biggest culture change was probably on-field discipline imo

(02-02-2022, 04:23 PM)CorpusChristiBengal Wrote: The biggest culture change was probably on-field discipline imo

the penalties was a pleasant surprise....      Its like we are the team paying the refs now.

After the first year, I think Taylor & the FO had a very specific type of player they wanted to bring in, character wise. Guys who could play, surely. But also guys from winning programs (college or pro), with playoff or championship experience. And a lot of team captains & coaches' sons as well.

They didn't just want players, they wanted leaders. Champions.

2020 Draft:
1. Joe Burrow, QB, LSU. National Champ. Heisman. Capt. Coaches' son.
2. Tee Higgins, WR, Clemson. National Champion. Bengal fan.
3. Logan Wilson, LB, Wyoming. 3 time Captain.
4. Akeem Davis-Gaither, LB, Appalaichan State. Capt. Coaches' son.
5. Khalid Kareem, DE, Notre Dame. Captain.
6. Hakeem Adeniji, OT, Kansas. Captain.
7. Markus Bailey, LB, Purdue. Captain.

2020 Notable Free Agents:
1. DJ Reader, DT, Houston. PO exp next to Watt.
2. Trae Waynes, CB. Vikings. PO exp with Minny.
3. Mackenzie Alexander, CB, Vikings. PO exp with Minny.
4. Vonn Bell, S, NO. PO exp with Saints.
5. Josh Bynes, LB, Ravens. PO exp with Baltimore.
6. Xavier Su'a-Filo, G, Dallas. PO exp with Houston.
7. Quinton Spain, OG, Buffalo. PO exp with Bills.

The trend continued last year, though not quite as drastically.

2021 Notable Free Agents:
1. Trey Hendrickson, DE, Saints. PO exp with NO.
2. Larry Ogunjobi, DT, Browns. PO exp with Browns.
3. Riley Reiff, OT, Minny. PO exp with Vikings.
4. Mike Hilton, CB, Pitt. PO exp with Steelers.
5. Chidobe Awuzie, CB, Dallas. PO exp with Cowboys.
6. Eli Apple, CB, NO. PO exp with Saints.

2021 Draft Picks.
1. Ja'Marr Chase, WR, LSU. National Champion.
2. Jackson Carman, OT, Clemson. National Champion. Ohio kid.
3. Joseph Ossai, EDGE, Texas.
4. Cameron Sample, DL, Tulane.
4. Tyler Shelvin, DT, LSU. National Champion.
4. D'Ante Smith, OT, East Carolina.
5. Evan McPherson, PK, Florida.
6. Trey Hill, OL, Georgia.
6. Chris Evans, RB, Michigan.
7. Wyatt Hubert, DE, Kansas State. Captain.

16/17 of those picks made the team. Hubert's injury orevented him from competing for a spot.

(02-02-2022, 05:53 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: After the first year, I think Taylor & the FO had a very specific type of player they wanted to bring in, character wise.  Guys who could play, surely.  But also guys from winning programs (college or pro), with playoff or championship experience.  And a lot of team captains & coaches' sons as well.  

They didn't just want players, they wanted leaders. Champions.

2020 Draft:
1. Joe Burrow, QB, LSU. National Champ. Heisman. Capt. Coaches' son.
2. Tee Higgins, WR, Clemson. National Champion. Bengal fan.
3. Logan Wilson, LB, Wyoming. 3 time Captain.
4. Akeem Davis-Gaither, LB, Appalaichan State. Capt. Coaches' son.
5. Khalid Kareem, DE, Notre Dame. Captain.
6. Hakeem Adeniji, OT, Kansas. Captain.
7. Markus Bailey, LB, Purdue. Captain.

2020 Notable Free Agents:
1. DJ Reader, DT, Houston. PO exp next to Watt.
2. Trae Waynes, CB. Vikings. PO exp with Minny.
3. Mackenzie Alexander, CB, Vikings. PO exp with Minny.
4. Vonn Bell, S, NO. PO exp with Saints.  
5. Josh Bynes, LB, Ravens.  PO exp with Baltimore.  
6. Xavier Su'a-Filo, G, Dallas. PO exp with Houston.  
7. Quinton Spain, OG, Buffalo. PO exp with Bills.

The trend continued last year, though not quite as drastically.  

2021 Notable Free Agents:
1. Trey Hendrickson, DE, Saints. PO exp with NO.
2. Larry Ogunjobi, DT, Browns. PO exp with Browns.
3. Riley Reiff, OT, Minny. PO exp with Vikings.
4. Mike Hilton, CB, Pitt. PO exp with Steelers.  
5. Chidobe Awuzie, CB, Dallas. PO exp with Cowboys.
6. Eli Apple, CB, NO. PO exp with Saints.

2021 Draft Picks.
1. Ja'Marr Chase, WR, LSU. National Champion.
2. Jackson Carman, OT, Clemson. National Champion. Ohio kid.
3. Joseph Ossai, EDGE, Texas.  
4. Cameron Sample, DL, Tulane.
4. Tyler Shelvin, DT, LSU. National Champion.
4. D'Ante Smith, OT, East Carolina.
5. Evan McPherson, PK, Florida.
6. Trey Hill, OL, Georgia.  
6. Chris Evans, RB, Michigan.
7. Wyatt Hubert, DE, Kansas State. Captain.  

16/17 of those picks made the team. Hubert's injury orevented him from competing for a spot.

Thank you for that detailed listing.

(02-02-2022, 03:43 PM)Au165 Wrote: I have thought a lot about this since Sunday. I usually comment more or make threads that are more X and O centric as that is what I think about when it comes to winning. For the last few years we have had people here who took every chance they could get to discredit the cultural changes that were occurring. I in some of these cases was one of those skeptics on how it would help the team actually win. No single change was a magic bullet but the sum of the pieces have definitely contributed to turning the organizational culture around.

Ownership: In hindsight we made the right pick with Zach, but how did we get there? We had a group beyond just Mike Brown that relied on Katie Blackburn, but also Duke Tobin and others who were open to finding the next big thing rather than a retread or easy choice. We went after a guy who may have been a year or two off from being ready but we weren't in a position to get the top guy when he is the top guy so they gambled on getting the top guy before he was fully baked. A lot of organizations play it safe and take the retread, we took a risk and it worked.

Coaching: Zac came in and wanted a very specific staff. Did he make some mistakes? Sure, Pollack getting away in favor of turner was a bump in the road but he learned and moved forward. His coordinator positions were often questioned but he had faith in these guys who many other didn't, and it would have been easy to sacrifice them after the first two years like most organizations but we stayed the course. Now both look to be on the road to getting HC shots in the future.

Roster Construction: This was a huge undertaking no matter what anyone wants to say. The roster when Taylor got here was not good as it was filled with aging vets and guys who frankly were to engrained in their ways to buy in to a new approach. We had to move on from many long time staples, and sometimes that was ugly, but it was the right move for the culture. The organization set out to spend in FA, but spend on players who fit both schematically and culturally. While someone like Waynes didn't pan out many of those free agents did, and even some of the bets they made in letting our good players leave to bring in replacements who on paper were arguably downgrades was a huge change. For years our motto was keep our own, but we knew our own weren't going to get it done.

Draft: It's easy to look at Burrow and end this point here because culturally speaking he is the kind of person you want on your team, but it actually goes further than that. Early on when Taylor was here there was an emphasis on drafting guys of high character, guys who were captains. Did we kill every pick? No, but what we did was built a roster of guys who you can trust to handle adversity and bounce back which we have done this year well.

Game Experience: People laughed at things like Elizabeth Blackburn coming in and improving our game day experience or our social media experience. People would quip that it wouldn't lead to wins on the field, but good engagement helps create better fans and better fans create a better home field experience as well as helps keep players in the organization. The uniforms were similar, anyone who has coached knows that players feel good when they think they look good and letting this group experience a little bit of an overhaul definitely helped energize them this year.

Ring of honor: What do names on a stadium have to do with winning? Pride in who you are and where you come from means a lot. Recognizing the past helps create a pride for the team and makes it a more desirable place to be.

People will probably come here and say most of these things have nothing to do with winning, but I'll disagree. Players are humans, and even though it's their job it doesn't mean they are going to bring the energy to perform it well everyday just because they get a check. We had that for years, even when we had success, and it didn't evolve into a true culture people wanted to be a part of long term. You hear a lot from our players, especially the free agents that have gotten here in the last two years, the culture is different and it makes this place a place people want to be. It's a team first place and a place I think we will see free agents flock to over the next couple years. Sure, Joe Burrow will be a big selling point but there is going to be a lot more to it I think when those players start talking.

Great post, nothing I can add to this except that Zac Taylor being young helped. He clearly learned how be a much better HC 
this season and a better play caller with Brian Callahan and Burrow. Was fun last Sunday, Zac was having fun from the moment
he stepped on the field and was BS-ing with Andy Ried an all time great HC who is also a pretty funny guy.

We kept it cool and we don't panic under Zac Taylor. The spotlight isn't too big for our guys. Seemed like it always was in the 
Marvin Lewis days, nothing against him, he helped out this franchise immensely. It is just different now, it is clear the culture
has changed.

Au165 great post. In this order what spurred this great success.
1. Zac Taylor named coach. He brought a background of learning from Bill Callihan, Mike Sherman, Jerry Philbin, Sean McVay and his staff. He had a plan and was the first choice at Arizona and Denver but took Cincy. That plan has produced where we are. It’s targeting high character players and captains and leaders. Then his positive approach persevered through losing.
He targeted great coaches. Lou Aranumo had never been a DC and has been spectacular. Trey Walters has been fantastic at receivers coach. Marion Hobby has been great at DL. Brian Callihan and him have been long time friends and have really formed a great team. His unique approach to the draft in evaluation and maybe the most involvement and ownership of draft choices has worked excellently.
2. Joe Burrow …. a future HOF.
3. Free Agency and the management willing to invest.
4. Team Culture

And something I learned today he assigns different coaches situational responsibilities. They staff produces a call sheet for run plays that they all look at but Pollard has one that’s just run plays and numerous down and distance they’ve all produced for the game and it’s his responsibility to suggest a play. One coach has the Redzone. One coach has third down. So although Taylor has the big call sheet they’ve got their own category and when you get to the situation one coach is responsible with suggestions. So basically although the staff has produced the entire call sheet one coach has his own. So it’s coordinated and not overwhelming for Taylor. So basically when they get to different situations they’ve got several OC’s. They don’t call the play but I’m sure a lot get called even though they are on the call sheet most likely.

(02-02-2022, 03:52 PM)Au165 Wrote: Yea, that stuff was weird because no one in the NFL looked at this as a top 10 roster coming into the year. 

I did.

And I actually heard a few "experts" say that we had bought a lot of talent in the free agent market, but the big question was coaching.

The whole "no one thought we had any talent" narrative just is not true. But it doesn't matter because the coaches proved they were up to the task.  Lots of teams with talent don't win.

(02-02-2022, 07:12 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: He targeted great coaches. Lou Aranumo had never been a DC and has been spectacular.

If Zach knew Lou was so great then why was he like the #6 choice for the job?

A guy like Aranumo was the best we could get to come here.  But right now it does not matter because we are actually winning in the playoffs due to great defensive play while our offense struggles to end drives with touchdowns.

(02-02-2022, 03:48 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: What was it? A month ago we had a similar thread about the culture and people were trying to argue it hasn’t changed. That Zac was way underachieving with this team lol… just wait until those people get in here the week before the Super Bowl to make that same argument lmao

My stance has been and always will be that I don't care about the culture. I just care about winning.
If the culture is bad but the team is winning, fine by me.

We had the same "culture" but it didn't mean anything when we did not have the talent.

Last year we had 11 different players start in 10 different combinations on our o-line. This years line has not been good, but it is much better than that '20 dumpster fire thanks to some health and a $7 million free agent RT. Then we replaced the worst starting WR in the league (Green) with one of the very best (Chase) and upgraded from Drew Sample to Uzomah at TE. Amazing how much better the "culture" is when you have guys that can play.

On defense last year we lost our top 3 DTs by the 4th game of the season and our CBs were destroyed by injury. All of our top 4 CBs missed considerable time with injury. Our #5-#7 CBs LeShaun Sims, Jalen Davis, and Tony Brown combined to play more snaps than any of our top 4 except Jackson. This year we add 4 new starters with $35 million free agent money (Hendrickson, Ogunjobi, Awuzie, Hilton) and Reader stayed healthy. Again, interesting how much better the "culture" is when you have talented players.

Taylor has done a great job of not only selecting new players, but also coaching them up and fitting them into his system. But all this talk about "culture" is meaningless. We had the exact same culture last year and stunk. Joe Burrow had the same "swagger" last year and just won 2 games as a starter.

It is possible oy praise Taylor for what he has done without making him some cult hero guru. Players always have fun and enjoy themselves when they are winning.

The culture change is the best thing that happened to the Bengals.

Many times before the Bengals were winning with bad character guys like Pac Man and Burfict for example and them fools always fell apart in the playoffs. Even when the games were damn near impossible to lose and against your rival they would still invent ways to lose.

Just like having a QB that does not quit, it matters whether some think so or not.

(02-02-2022, 07:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If Zach knew Lou was so great then why was he like the #6 choice for the job?

A guy like Aranumo was the best we could get to come here.  But right now it does not matter because we are actually winning in the playoffs due to great defensive play while our offense struggles to end drives with touchdowns.

Your lack of knowledge still amazes me. Lou was the third choice. Taylor was encouraged to hire a DC with experience and none wanted to come.

(02-02-2022, 07:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We had the same "culture" but it didn't mean anything when we did not have the talent.

Last year we had 11 different players start in 10 different combinations on our o-line. This years line has not been good, but it is much better than that '20 dumpster fire thanks to some health and a $7 million free agent RT. Then we replaced the worst starting WR in the league (Green) with one of the very best (Chase) and upgraded from Drew Sample to Uzomah at TE. Amazing how much better the "culture" is when you have guys that can play.

On defense last year we lost our top 3 DTs by the 4th game of the season and our CBs were destroyed by injury. All of our top 4 CBs missed considerable time with injury. Our #5-#7 CBs LeShaun Sims, Jalen Davis, and Tony Brown combined to play more snaps than any of our top 4 except Jackson. This year we add 4 new starters with $35 million free agent money (Hendrickson, Ogunjobi, Awuzie, Hilton) and Reader stayed healthy. Again, interesting how much better the "culture" is when you have talented players.

Taylor has done a great job of not only selecting new players, but also coaching them up and fitting them into his system. But all this talk about "culture" is meaningless. We had the exact same culture last year and stunk. Joe Burrow had the same "swagger" last year and just won 2 games as a starter.

It is possible oy praise Taylor for what he has done without making him some cult hero guru. Players always have fun and enjoy themselves when they are winning.

LMAO at least you realize your poor takes on Zac now need to be hidden for fear of a mass board bombardment of you.