(02-06-2022, 01:48 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Boyd is my favorite player and I just can't get on board with trading/letting him go. I get that in some ways it makes sense and he has had some games of little relevance. But he has also had some games where he was the one making big plays. I hope next year and with more time the offense will be more balanced with WR usage. I also think improved Oline play will help spread the ball around. We need to continue to add weapons not get rid of them in my opinion. I would like to draft a WR in the 4th or 5th RD. Now when his contract is up the writing will probably be on the wall unless Higgins looks too pricey to keep.

I love TB as well. We definitely need him this upcoming season. But consider this scenario:

Sign Bates to a long term deal this off season
Sign 2 quality FA's for the oline this off season with higher than average hits on the cap the next few years
Jonah is in a contract year this coming season 2022
Pratt is in a contract year in 2022
Wilson is in a contract year in 2023
Von Bell is in a contract year in 2023
Tee is in a contract year in 2023
Most likely extend Burrow prior to 2023
May extend Chase in 2023

If sign all the above and TB's final year is 2023, can we can trade for value prior to that season (unlikely), who else has a high salary, with lesser impact, in which we could cut that would save $7.3M for the 2023 season? 
Or do we keep him and just let him walk in 2024 without gaining any value?
I would like to get value for him as we eventually wont be able to afford all 3. (2023 Trade or Cut and add another piece - the Belichick method)

(02-06-2022, 01:49 PM)Housh Wrote: Resign Reiff because he’s likely our starter if we strike out in FA. If he wants more than around 5 million then I’d let him test FA. Either way he’s not a day 1 priority. Wait to see who you draft and who you can land in FA before resigning Riley.


Resign Ogunjobi. There’s no use in letting him go. He won’t ask for too much either. 2 years 15-18 million is about where I’d hover. He was making good plays when healthy. Sacks, and run support. He was our best DT. He’s one that i think will be poached by another team. No way someone doesn’t offer him around 21 million for 2 years.

Uzomah is getting resigned. Period. Due to his injury history i can’t see him getting more than 6 million. Honestly that seems kinda high too. No one should poach him. He’s good but he’s not so good that another team would want him.

Bates is getting 90 million plus over 5 years. If we tag him i will be very disappointed.

Spain is likely coming back around 4-6 million per year. He’s earned it.

Apple i think is a toss up. If he makes plays in the big game i could literally see him getting a contract from it. If he’s horrible and leaves a bad taste in everyone’s mouth i think we’ll let him walk. By my count Apple gave up 2 TDs against KC so as of right now I’d let him go.

BJ Hill is a toss up. I cannot believe he won’t get a bigger offer somewhere else. He has emerged as an amazing DT. No way a team doesn’t want him as their starter after this season.

The other guy idc. He’d be cheap if resigned so idc but at some point it’s time to let Shelvin work

Just my opinion

Reiff should not be our starter next year regardless of salary.

I dont want to over pay for CJ either but at 29 not sure he stays at $6M?

Bates has been great the past 3 games, but $18M?  Thats too much for me, would have to get creative.  

I like Larry as well, his injury is significant it will be interesting to see his market.

I'm good with Spain at $4M

Apple can stay at a good price or go, his play has been better but not great, and if anyone is not a "fit" attitude wise I'd say it was him (total speculation)

Id love to keep BJ at the right price as well. He and LO most likely have the least incentive to stay outside of money coming from other teams on 1 year deals.

We need to homers in FA with oline like we did on defense last offseason and we must hit on an olineman in the draft this year, that is one spot that has been atrocious the past 10 years.

(02-06-2022, 09:33 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I love TB as well. We definitely need him this upcoming season. But consider this scenario:

Sign Bates to a long term deal this off season
Sign 2 quality FA's for the oline this off season with higher than average hits on the cap the next few years
Jonah is in a contract year this coming season 2022
Pratt is in a contract year in 2022
Wilson is in a contract year in 2023
Von Bell is in a contract year in 2023
Tee is in a contract year in 2023
Most likely extend Burrow prior to 2023
May extend Chase in 2023

If sign all the above and TB's final year is 2023, can we can trade for value prior to that season (unlikely), who else has a high salary, with lesser impact, in which we could cut that would save $7.3M for the 2023 season? 
Or do we keep him and just let him walk in 2024 without gaining any value?
I would like to get value for him as we eventually wont be able to afford all 3. (2023 Trade or Cut and add another piece - the Belichick method)

Potentially trading Boyd after the 2022 season is one thing. I guess I just want to keep him next season and then worry about after that once we've seen how next season unfolds.

The Bills gave Quinton Spain a 3 years $15 million contract in 2020. But he will be 31 next year instead of 29 and in his prime.

I'd give him $13 over 3 years. He has a history of being pretty durable.

Reiff is already costing us $3Mil next year.

(02-05-2022, 03:51 PM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: Don’t understand why you guys want to re-sign Riley Reiff. Guy is old and not really good.  We need a major upgrade at RT and RG.

I'd love to see them sign Norwell from the Jags. Cincinnati native and an awesome player.

(02-06-2022, 09:45 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Just my opinion

Reiff should not be our starter next year regardless of salary.

I dont want to over pay for CJ either but at 29 not sure he stays at $6M?

Bates has been great the past 3 games, but $18M?  Thats too much for me, would have to get creative.  

I like Larry as well, his injury is significant it will be interesting to see his market.

I'm good with Spain at $4M

Apple can stay at a good price or go, his play has been better but not great, and if anyone is not a "fit" attitude wise I'd say it was him (total speculation)

Id love to keep BJ at the right price as well. He and LO most likely have the least incentive to stay outside of money coming from other teams on 1 year deals.

We need to homers in FA with oline like we did on defense last offseason and we must hit on an olineman in the draft this year, that is one spot that has been atrocious the past 10 years.

On Bates id have to add that not many teams can CONFIDENTLY play 1 safety high looks and EXPECT good outcomes CONSISTENTLY. We are one of the few teams that can get good pass coverage with 1 safety back. Bates imo is just too important not to sign.

(02-07-2022, 12:09 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Potentially trading Boyd after the 2022 season is one thing. I guess I just want to keep him next season and then worry about after that once we've seen how next season unfolds.

Im good with that as well.

(02-07-2022, 02:12 AM)Housh Wrote: On Bates id have to add that not many teams can CONFIDENTLY play 1 safety high looks and EXPECT good outcomes CONSISTENTLY. We are one of the few teams that can get good pass coverage with 1 safety back. Bates imo is just too important not to sign.

He's playing lights out in the playoffs for sure. I just hope the number is well under $18M

(02-07-2022, 12:56 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Reiff is already costing us $3Mil next year.

That's from his prorated signing bonus right?  Dead cap?  We need to do better than Reiff next season.  Winning back to back SB's is more difficult than winning the first one... :)

(02-07-2022, 12:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The Bills gave Quinton Spain a 3 years $15 million contract in 2020.  But he will be 31 next year instead of 29 and in his prime.

I'd give him $13 over 3 years.  He has a history of being pretty durable.

I'd be very surprised if you could sign ANY player to $13 over 3 years; that's what, $4.33 per year? 

(02-07-2022, 12:56 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Reiff is already costing us $3Mil next year.

Yes, Reiff is costing us 2.75 million for 2022 in dead cap money, but he is not signed for 2022. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/riley-reiff-9833/

Good news is the 2022 dead money cap hit is in our 2022 cap number already. Also, this is just one example of creatively managing the cap. Bengals knew cap was rising in 2022, so they signed him to a voidable second year (in essence gave him a one year deal), then the spread his cap hit over 2 years versus just 2021 allowing them to sign more free agents for 2022.

Very smart cap management by the Bengals FO. Reiff is a UFA in 2022.

(02-07-2022, 12:14 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'd be very surprised if you could sign ANY player to $13 over 3 years; that's what, $4.33 per year? 

Spain is making less than $1M this year. He was cut after the 1st year of his 3 year $15M contract with the Bills before coming here. Not likely he sees that kind of deal again IMO.  I have no doubt he would immediately accept a $13M deal, probably less - assuming we resign him before our FA moves and the draft.

(02-07-2022, 02:12 AM)Housh Wrote: On Bates id have to add that not many teams can CONFIDENTLY play 1 safety high looks and EXPECT good outcomes CONSISTENTLY. We are one of the few teams that can get good pass coverage with 1 safety back. Bates imo is just too important not to sign.

Bates has allowed an 80% completion % and a 122 passer rating when targeted this year.  He's given up a lot of explosive plays in coverage, particularly through the regular season.  He's been better in the playoffs, but his body of work this year has been extremely poor.

(02-07-2022, 01:08 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Spain is making less than $1M this year. He was cut after the 1st year of his 3 year $15M contract with the Bills before coming here. Not likely he sees that kind of deal again IMO.  I have no doubt he would immediately accept a $13M deal, probably less - assuming we resign him before our FA moves and the draft.

Fred and I didn't say $13M. He and I said "$13". 

(02-07-2022, 02:02 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Fred and I didn't say $13M. He and I said "$13". 

LOL, my bad. 

Lets see 70 MIL.

Bradley bozeman C - 9 mil per year
Austin corbett RG - 9 mil per year
Trent brown RT - 12-14 mil
Jessie bates S - 13 mil on franchise tag

We could essentially sign 3/5 of Oline from outside our organization, and retain our best free agent and still have 25 mil left to sign or retain guys like uzomah, hill, ogunjobi or even apple. Not to mention how we can easily structure or restucture any contract at any time. If we sign Oline and we lose ogunjobi or hill or apple we just draft their replacement in the early rounds. We can free up dollars cutting hopkins if we sign a center as well. We are in great position to get oline fixed and really open up the draft to get some young talent on D to supplement the money we have spent there the past 2 offseasons. They spent most of the FA dollars on D recently and they need to spend on the oline this year and then draft is wide open for some young defensive talent. That how the NFL works.

(02-07-2022, 01:53 PM)Whatever Wrote: Bates has allowed an 80% completion % and a 122 passer rating when targeted this year.  He's given up a lot of explosive plays in coverage, particularly through the regular season.  He's been better in the playoffs, but his body of work this year has been extremely poor.

In the Playoffs Bate is doing the following
Has an 88.6 coverage rating peer PFF, 45.8 passer rating allowed, and 37.5 incompletion force rate.

He is playing like elite player in the playoffs put some respect on his name.

(02-07-2022, 03:38 PM)J24 Wrote: In the Playoffs Bate is doing the following
Has an 88.6 coverage rating peer PFF, 45.8 passer rating allowed, and 37.5 incompletion force rate.

He is playing like elite player in the playoffs put some respect on his name.

He gave up 2 40+ yard plays in the Titans game (got beat in coverage by AJ Brown and whiffed on a tackle on Foreman in run support).  He's made some big plays, too, but elite is a stretch.

That 122 passer rating allowed was 16th worst in the league.  That includes LB's and CB's, too.  That's brutally bad.  With a serious need for some quality OL, I don't see how you can back up a Brink's truck for a guy that inconsistent.

(02-06-2022, 09:33 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I love TB as well. We definitely need him this upcoming season. But consider this scenario:

Sign Bates to a long term deal this off season
Sign 2 quality FA's for the oline this off season with higher than average hits on the cap the next few years
Jonah is in a contract year this coming season 2022
Pratt is in a contract year in 2022
Wilson is in a contract year in 2023
Von Bell is in a contract year in 2023
Tee is in a contract year in 2023
Most likely extend Burrow prior to 2023
May extend Chase in 2023

If sign all the above and TB's final year is 2023, can we can trade for value prior to that season (unlikely), who else has a high salary, with lesser impact, in which we could cut that would save $7.3M for the 2023 season? 
Or do we keep him and just let him walk in 2024 without gaining any value?
I would like to get value for him as we eventually wont be able to afford all 3. (2023 Trade or Cut and add another piece - the Belichick method)

Jonah Williams is only finishing up his 3rd year. 5th year option has to be decided upon this offseason.
Given his success, I do expect he'll get that 5th year option, keeping him through 2023.