(02-16-2022, 05:55 PM)Au165 Wrote: Great class for Right Tackles honestly. 

I dunno, I just don't have confidence many of them are ready to start Day 1.
I'd say Neal, Ekwonu, and maybe NPF and Cross could start at OT right away.
Penning, I think he may need time to acclimate coming from Northern Iowa.
Any of the other OTs I definitely don't have optimism will be ready to start right away.

One thing I do want to point out is when I say ready Day 1, I don't mean just start. I mean start and already be middle-of-the-pack or better.

Jonah Williams is are only solid lineman I don’t understand moving him to another position. I rather fix the other 4 spots. Where gonna pay Armstead more money and who’s 6 years older to play LT when Williams has 2 years left on his rookie deal ? Moving positions is easier said then done Williams could struggle then you got his 5th option and he will probably want to leave to go play tackle. I rather sign real guards a RT or a center.

Moving Jonah along the line should be considered so we don’t ignore a caliber LT if one comes available. These are decisions the coaches have to make. If a top caliber LT says he’ll sign for 7 mil then Jonah’s ass is getting moved period. But usually you want to avoid moving guys after they’ve shown promise somewhere

(02-16-2022, 06:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Getting a 1st round grade or whatever round grade doesn't necessarily mean the player is ready to start or not.
A good percentage of the grade is based on how elite potential someone may have.
Look at Margus Hunt, for example. He was nowhere near a 2nd round prospect in regards to being ready to start. But his elite potential made many think he was worth taking that early.

He certainly had elite age for a draft pick. Off the charts!

(02-16-2022, 06:34 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: I guess we’re just going to agree to disagree.  To me he is brute force/power guy.  A classic phone-booth blocker.  On the move his technique is pretty sloppy and his inconsistent hand placement gets exposed.  Not a deal breaker but like Trey Hill, I don’t think the Bengals have a very good handle of what scheme fits are supposed to be.

Like I said I think his issues is technique and not ability to do it. He would have been more successful early in an inside zone or power scheme mostly because that was what he was used to in college.

Honestly if you're looking for technically sound wide zone offensive linemen straight out of college the pickings are slim. How many College teams run alot of it right now? Iowa, Virginia Tech and Ohio State run it a little uhhh Notre Dame ran it the last couple of years but that might change.

(02-16-2022, 06:55 PM)Housh Wrote: Moving Jonah along the line should be considered so we don’t ignore a caliber LT if one comes available. These are decisions the coaches have to make. If a top caliber LT says he’ll sign for 7 mil then Jonah’s ass is getting moved period. But usually you want to avoid moving guys after they’ve shown promise somewhere

What self-respecting top-caliber LT is signing for anything less than $10 mill?

With that said, 1) I doubt Williams is moved after 3 years at LT, but 2) Right Tackles gettin paid now just like Left Tackles. Ramczyk is 5th highest APY OT at $19 mill. Lane Johnson 7th highest at $18 mill. Taylor Moton and Braden Smith also in Top 10 at $17.8 mill and $17.5 mill, respectively.
RT is becoming just as important as LT nowadays.

(02-16-2022, 06:55 PM)Housh Wrote: Moving Jonah along the line should be considered so we don’t ignore a caliber LT if one comes available. These are decisions the coaches have to make. If a top caliber LT says he’ll sign for 7 mil then Jonah’s ass is getting moved period. But usually you want to avoid moving guys after they’ve shown promise somewhere

Orlando Brown is the best LT available this year and he’s not leaving KC at worst they’ll franchise him. Armstead is 2nd and he is 30 ,will be more expensive then Williams and is 6 years older. Trent Brown played LT in New England during his 1st stint I wouldn’t mind looking at him for RT and looking for some guards.

(02-16-2022, 06:57 PM)Synric Wrote: Like I said I think his issues is technique and not ability to do it. He would have been more successful early in an inside zone or power scheme mostly because that was what he was used to in college.

Honestly if you're looking for technically sound wide zone offensive linemen straight out of college the pickings are slim. How many College teams run alot of it right now? Iowa, Virginia Tech and Ohio State run it a little uhhh Notre Dame ran it the last couple of years but that might change.

It’s always projection. You don’t get many who run wide-zone just like most are totally unfamiliar with NFL pass protection sets. You have to visually observe on the field traits that can transfer over to the NFL.

I found this quote on the Trench Warfare site on JC:
“ He would be helped playing in a more confined space inside where he can be in a more insulated position to utilize his size, length, and aggressiveness to his advantage “

(02-16-2022, 07:05 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What self-respecting top-caliber LT is signing for anything less than $10 mill?

With that said, 1) I doubt Williams is moved after 3 years at LT, but 2) Right Tackles gettin paid now just like Left Tackles. Ramczyk is 5th highest APY OT at $19 mill. Lane Johnson 7th highest at $18 mill. Taylor Moton and Braden Smith also in Top 10 at $17.8 mill and $17.5 mill, respectively.
RT is becoming just as important as LT nowadays.

Can we upgrade Prince for 10 mil?  God, I hope so.

(02-16-2022, 07:25 PM)samhain Wrote: Can we upgrade Prince for 10 mil?  God, I hope so.

Yes, Morgan Moses is under $10M, Trent Brown is closer to 12M and both are vastly better than Prince.

(02-16-2022, 06:54 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Jonah Williams is are only solid lineman I don’t understand moving him to another position. I rather fix the other 4 spots. Where gonna pay Armstead more money and who’s 6 years older to play LT when Williams has 2 years left on his rookie deal ? Moving positions is easier said then done Williams could struggle then you got his 5th option and he will probably want to leave to go play tackle.  I rather sign real guards a RT or a center.

You'd need to sing a high-end tackle to upgrade him and justify the move.  I don't see it nor do I think it's the correct move.  If you're looking through a positive lens, we might have 25 mil at best to spend on OL after other needs are paid for.  An elite LT will eat that up almost immediately.  

That said, you never know.  The Bengals don't mind paying OTs and might view it as in line with their traditional position values.  

I'd rather get 2 or 3 quality interior guys.

(02-16-2022, 07:29 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Yes, Morgan Moses is under $10M, Trent Brown is closer to 12M and both are vastly better than Prince.

I wonder how Prince would do next a true quality RG like Daniels.  You have to think it would make his job a bit less demanding.  If there's a guy I want them to spend on, it's him.  Get Daniels and a top tier center and you can really take a step forward at the line of scrimmage.

(02-16-2022, 07:25 PM)samhain Wrote: Can we upgrade Prince for 10 mil?  God, I hope so.

Prince was just a backup, but yes there are some quality RTs that should be available for $10 mill or less.

(02-16-2022, 07:32 PM)samhain Wrote: I wonder how Prince would do next a true quality RG like Daniels.  You have to think it would make his job a bit less demanding.  If there's a guy I want them to spend on, it's him.  Get Daniels and a top tier center and you can really take a step forward at the line of scrimmage.

Upgrading RT is far more important than upgrading Hopkins.
Prince is way worse than Hopkins.
My approach to this offseason would be to keep Hopkins as the starting C and see what C prospects might be available in the draft.
If Linderbaum somehow makes it to 31, snag him up as soon as Bengals are on the clock.
Also like Zion Johnson as a potential C to groom at 31, or Dylan Parham at C in Rd 3 or 4.
There's also Alec Lindstrom or Nick Ford in Rds 5-7, but they probably wouldn't push Hopkins out as a rookie.

Bringing in James Daniels to cover RG with the possibility of also moving to C is also a quality option.

(02-16-2022, 07:11 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: It’s always projection.  You don’t get many who run wide-zone just like most are totally unfamiliar with NFL pass protection sets. You have to visually observe on the field traits that can transfer over to the NFL.  

I found this quote on the Trench Warfare site on JC:
“ He would be helped playing in a more confined space inside where he can be in a more insulated position to utilize his size, length, and aggressiveness to his advantage “

That's why I think the best option for draft vs FA is to take care of your OL in FA and just fill your weapons with draft picks.
I feel you have a better chance at finding a solid-or-better contributor quickly at WR, TE, and especially RB compared to OL.

(02-16-2022, 07:11 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: It’s always projection.  You don’t get many who run wide-zone just like most are totally unfamiliar with NFL pass protection sets. You have to visually observe on the field traits that can transfer over to the NFL.  

I found this quote on the Trench Warfare site on JC:
“ He would be helped playing in a more confined space inside where he can be in a more insulated position to utilize his size, length, and aggressiveness to his advantage “

Maybe we need to junk wide zone and adopt a system our players can execute well. 

Bengals have a lot of money under the cap but have the second number of fewest players signed and a number of starters who need to be signed or replaced so I cannot see them spending $17 mil on one player like Armstead when they have multiple holes on o-line. I am on the fence with Hopkins. As your fifth best o-lineman I think he is okay and reasonably priced. I think it is a toss up between him or Spain as to who we could keep as the fifth best. I wonder about resigning Reif - I think we have to count $2.75 mil against next years cap as part of his bonus. If we draft a Rainham or Penner, it allows them grow before having to start. Lesson should be learned with Carmen --no rookies get a starting spot before camp starts --make them earn it.

Add Daniels (my fav choice) as RG and one of Norwell, Connor Williams or Corbett plus Reif and draft a RT in the first round. I wonder if Spain would be interested in coming back for < 3 mil as a back up?

Line would be
LT - Williams, Smith
LG - Corbett, Carmen
C - Hopkins, Daniels
RG - Daniels, Carmen
RT - Reif - first round pick

You would need to add a few back-ups --maybe 1 out Hill Adenji, Prince but absolutely need five capable starters and at least one useful swing tackle ( hard to believe Morgan Moses was available late in FA) and one back-up interior player that can play guard to allow Daniels to slide over (Spain?)

(02-16-2022, 07:55 PM)Joelist Wrote: Maybe we need to junk wide zone and adopt a system our players can execute well. 

Wide zone is becoming huge in the NFL and I was happy when they wanted to adopt the system in 2019. 

(02-16-2022, 07:25 PM)samhain Wrote: Can we upgrade Prince for 10 mil?  God, I hope so.

I think we could for 600 K.

(02-16-2022, 07:08 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Orlando Brown is the best LT available this year and he’s not leaving KC at worst they’ll franchise him. Armstead is 2nd and he is 30 ,will be more expensive then Williams and is 6 years older. Trent Brown played LT in New England during his 1st stint I wouldn’t mind looking at him for RT and looking for some guards.

Man...didn't we pass on Brown a couple times in the draft?