(02-18-2022, 02:27 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Dennis Roland played next to Bobbie Williams.
Nate Livings played next to Andrew Whitworth.
Cedric Ogbuehi played next to Kevin Zeitler.

They were all still three problems. They need to add 4 upgrades on the OL. One guy gets you nowhere other than 2020 and 2021 all over again.

I don't think anyone is arguing for a bunch of C+ guys, are they? Because I haven't seen anyone mention getting a bunch of XSFs.

What I’m trying to say is they should attack it like they attacked the defense. Start by signing one top tier lineman (a la reader or Hendrickson), then you fill in with B tier lineman and draft picks. I don’t think it’s realistic that we can sign more than one A lineman with our cap space and the players we need to re-sign.

For starters, I would like a day 1 or 2 signing along the oline. Then you fill in from there. They definitely need to do a lot of homework and get this right for once (like they did with the defense). If they do, we will be very tough to beat.

If all they do is wait for the second wave of free agency and sign those types of players, we’re rolling the dice more that it’s actually going to work.

I am watching the replay of the Buccaneers/Rams playoff game on the NFL Network.
Ryan Jensen © is always thinking out there. Never looks like he gets caught watching the game. I always feel like Trey Hopkins does not help out the Guards much. He does not help with stunts much.
Austin Corbett from the Rams is solid and would be my preference at RG. He is another guy that is hustling down field following plays in case of turnovers. He is probably not ready to leave the Rams but boy he is good.

I would be happy if some how we could sign Corbett (RG) and Tomlinson (LG). Even if that meant keeping Hopkins and Reiff. It would be great to have dominating Guards.

(02-15-2022, 09:03 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Agreed on not trusting Reiff.


Expecting a 34-year-old OT who hasn't played a full season since 2015 (6 straight seasons of being hurt) to suddenly stay healthy is a foolish bet.


So you want at least 4/5ths of the OL to stay the same? Again? After watching Burrow get battered for the second straight year? 

They already did the "trust Frank Pollack" thing for 2021. 4 of the 5 starting OL who were in the game Burrow got his knee destroyed in 2020 continued to be starters for the 2021 playoffs that saw him get pummeled. 

That's insanity. 


I would. Dude can't stay healthy. He's missed multiple games each of the last 5 years, and at least 5 games missed in each of the last 4 years. He's only played 43 out of his last 81 games and now he's heading into his age 31 season. He won't get MORE durable in his 30s and all those injuries will add up to shorten careers anyway.

That seems like a poor plan. Reiff wasn't the answer and he was a B guy. XSF was C+. A large pile of mediocrity is still just mediocrity. Go out there and fix the problem with proper talent and go win a Super Bowl. Get me 3 A tier guys and a 1st rounder to go with Jonah, protect Burrow, and lets roll over the NFL for the next couple years.

Who are your guys TLL?

For me it is James Daniels, Morgan Moses and Andrew Norwell. DO IT.

(02-19-2022, 04:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Who are your guys TLL?

For me it is James Daniels, Morgan Moses and Andrew Norwell. DO IT.

James Daniels
Bradley Bozeman
Austin Corbett

Daniels' spotrac projection is 4yr/$30m ($7.5m/yr)
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/james-daniels-25138/market-value/
Bozeman's spotrac projection is 4yr/$40m ($10m/yr)
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/bradley-bozeman-25316/market-value/
Corbett's spotrac projection is 4yr/$35m ($8.75m/yr)
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/austin-corbett-25132/market-value/

So roughly $26.25m/yr, but $6m savings from cutting Hopkins when you replace him with Bozeman. Even if you add extra money thinking they'll be $2m/yr each or whatever more than projection that is very reasonable to absolutely just fix the entire IOL instantly.

I don't think any of the three teams could realistically franchise tag those guys (only the Bears technically have the money) and they're not just significant upgrades, but also are young enough that the Bengals can keep the same OL together for a good couple years. Daniels heading into age 25 season, Corbett heading into age 27 season, Bozeman heading into age 28 season. Combined with Jonah heading into age 25 season and a 1st round RT, that OL could be completely together for 4-5 years no problem.

Plus as an added bonus all three have been winners in their careers. (Rams and Ravens, obviously, but surprisingly the Bears are actually 34-31 in his 4 years.) 

James Daniels is the only one of the three to have missed any games the last 2 years, and that was the only games he missed in his whole 4 year career. So no real injury concerns either. Availability being the best ability and all that jazz.

Also like Daniel Faalele at #31. Huge human being to play RT and Daniel Jeremiah said he reminded him a little of Orlando Brown Jr and I have seen his pro comparisons as Jordan Mailata who was just PFFs #3 T in 2021.

Jonah Williams
James Daniels
Bradley Bozeman
Austin Corbett
Daniel Faalele

(02-19-2022, 05:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: James Daniels
Bradley Bozeman
Austin Corbett

Corbett's spotrac projection is 4yr/$35m ($8.75m/yr)
Bozeman's spotrac projection is 4yr/$40m ($10m/yr)
Corbett's spotrac projection is 4yr/$35m ($8.75m/yr)

So $27.5m/yr, but $6m savings from cutting Hopkins when you replace him with Bozeman. Even if you add extra money thinking they'll be $2m/yr each or whatever more than projection that is very reasonable to absolutely just fix the entire IOL instantly.

I don't think any of the three teams could realistically franchise tag those guys (only the Bears technically have the money) and they're not just significant upgrades, but also are young enough that the Bengals can keep the same OL together for a good couple years. Daniels heading into age 25 season, Corbett heading into age 27 season, Bozeman heading into age 28 season. Combined with Jonah heading into age 25 season and a 1st round RT, that OL could be completely together for 4-5 years no problem.

Plus as an added bonus all three have been winners in their careers. (Rams and Ravens, obviously, but surprisingly the Bears are actually 34-31 in his 4 years.) 

James Daniels is the only one of the three to have missed any games the last 2 years, and that was the only games he missed in his whole 4 year career. So no real injury concerns either. Availability being the best ability and all that jazz.

Also like Daniel Faalele at #31. Huge human being to play RT and Daniel Jeremiah said he reminded him a little of Orlando Brown Jr and I have seen his pro comparisons as Jordan Mailata who was just PFFs #3 T in 2021.

Jonah Williams
James Daniels
Bradley Bozeman
Austin Corbett
Daniel Faalele

I think you meant Daniel's spotrac projection is 4yr/$31m ($7.3m/yr)

I would be satisfied with Corbett (RG) and Tomlinson (LG). Would want a RT and Center if possible.

(02-19-2022, 06:31 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I think you meant Daniel's spotrac projection is 4yr/$31m ($7.3m/yr)

I would be satisfied with Corbett (RG) and Tomlinson (LG). Would want a RT and Center if possible.

Yeah, I had way too many tabs open while making that post. I just kept adding things as I was remembering them. Lol

(02-13-2022, 10:48 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: You only get 10 spots on your team for lineman before you start trying to hide draft picks on the practice squad.

Possible 2022 Roster:
• Tre Hopkins (C, G)
• Riley Reiff (RT, G)
• Quinton Spain (LG)
• Jonah Williams (LT)
• Jackson Carmen (RG)
• D'Ante Smith (LT)
• Isiah Prince (RT)
• Terron Armstead (LT) Signed Free Agent
• Tyler Linderbaum © 32nd pick
Keep current player or draft a tackle project

Starting Lineup could be
Armstead (LT), Spain (LG), Linderbaum ©, Reiff (RG), Williams (RT)

That should fix the line for a few years.

Armstead might be the move to make. I would've originally thought the LT would be too expensive and we could get two other lineman instead. But if Jonah goes to RT and we can keep Reiff for a yr then I think we could go Linderbaum or Zion Johnson. Johnson played some center at the senior bowl I guess so he would have added depth on top of guard.

(02-19-2022, 08:07 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Armstead might be the move to make. I would've originally thought the LT would be too expensive and we could get two other lineman instead. But if Jonah goes to RT and we can keep Reiff for a yr then I think we could go Linderbaum or Zion Johnson. Johnson played some center at the senior bowl I guess so he would have added depth on top of guard.

There are so many ways to look at this.
I like Armstead (LT) but he is expensive. Lately I have been thinking we may be better off securing the interior rush for Joe. I love both Corbett (RG) and Tomlinson (LG) if we go in that direction. You could also go with strengthening your team and signing opponents FA's like Bozeman (Balt C) and Brown (Chiefs LT). I like your idea of Zion Johnson if Linderbaum is not there. If he is good enough to start we can either have more depth or save cap space and let Hopkins go and keep Trey Hill.
The Bengals have a lot of options in Free Agency to fix this lineup.

Jonah is an above average LT. Reiff is average or just below average & Spain played average+ this year, but both are better run blockers than pass blockers. I think that the Bengals can thrive with 4 average+ OL. IMO center is the undervalued position. They don't get called out much except for snap count or penalties, but as the "helper" in the middle and the line leader, they can do the most to avoid non-edge failure. There is one plug and play center in the draft, but several above average free agents.
Unfortunately, guards get ranked high in the draft because of pancakes on run plays, not because of steady pass blocking. With our draft record adding another steady FA guard(in addition to Spain) to provide a steady floor is needed. Zion Johnson might be plug and play, but likely an upper round 2 value.
Ditto OT, where a late round 1 pick will likely not start day 1, so a starter will be needed in FA.

(02-18-2022, 02:27 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Dennis Roland played next to Bobbie Williams.
Nate Livings played next to Andrew Whitworth.
Cedric Ogbuehi played next to Kevin Zeitler.

They were all still three problems. They need to add 4 upgrades on the OL. One guy gets you nowhere other than 2020 and 2021 all over again.

I don't think anyone is arguing for a bunch of C+ guys, are they? Because I haven't seen anyone mention getting a bunch of XSFs.

I was just looking at the top available lineman in FA and I'm not overly impressed with the top lineman available. Scherff's rating is only a 73 overall. It doesn't seem like there is an elite offensive lineman available, but a lot of above average/solid lineman to choose from. This makes a strong argument for a strategy of upgrading multiple spots.

What do you think of G Laken Tomlinson from San Fran? PFF says he should get around 9 mil per year on the market. I'd like to get a guard and RT in free agency. Tomlinson and Trent Brown (RT, Pats) have the top two PFF scores for available offensive lineman.

Edit:

To respond to your post more directly: If we had a line with Whit, Zeitler, and even our current starting center, I'd like our chances of being able to fix the other two spots with up and coming young players/recent draft picks. If you have a couple solid pros on the line, and mix in a couple young and promising players, they can learn from the solid pros and the line overall can be quite good.

If we had Jonah Williams, Laken Tomlinson, and Trent Brown, I'd feel a lot better about how the rest of the line will fill out with the options of young (recent) draft picks and even possibly lesser free agents like Spain.

(02-20-2022, 12:35 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I was just looking at the top available lineman in FA and I'm not overly impressed with the top lineman available. Scherff's rating is only a 73 overall. It doesn't seem like there is an elite offensive lineman available, but a lot of above average/solid lineman to choose from. This makes a strong argument for a strategy of upgrading multiple spots.

What do you think of G Laken Tomlinson from San Fran? PFF says he should get around 9 mil per year on the market. I'd like to get a guard and RT in free agency. Tomlinson and Trent Brown (RT, Pats) have the top two PFF scores for available offensive lineman.

Edit:

To respond to your post more directly: If we had a line with Whit, Zeitler, and even our current starting center, I'd like our chances of being able to fix the other two spots with up and coming young players/recent draft picks. If you have a couple solid pros on the line, and mix in a couple young and promising players, they can learn from the solid pros and the line overall can be quite good.

If we had Jonah Williams, Laken Tomlinson, and Trent Brown, I'd feel a lot better about how the rest of the line will fill out with the options of young (recent) draft picks and even possibly lesser free agents like Spain.

There's a bunch of young quality starters among the IOL. The OT market is old outside of Orlando Brown Jr who I doubt the Chiefs let leave after the picks they gave up for him, but this is a great year to snag some starting IOL.

Tomlinson is an interesting choice. He's solid, and he's durable, but I don't think he'd be anywhere near my top choice. Heading into his age 30 season I don't think I like his upside as much as James Daniels, Austin Corbett, Alex Cappa, and Connor Williams. I think he might be just a more expensive option to Ted Karras or Mark Glowinski without a significant increase in results.

I want absolutely nothing to do with Trent Brown. He's missed 24 games the last 3 years including at least 5 in each. That's how you have Isaiah Prince back as starting RT. Same reason I want nothing to do with Armstead or Scherff either. If a guy can't stay healthy, he's not worth it.

Why try to make yourself feel better about a bad OL? Why not just fix it and make it a good OL? The team was just in the Super Bowl. Now isn't a time to sit and settle. It's time to push and go win one in 2022.

(02-20-2022, 01:30 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's a bunch of young quality starters among the IOL. The OT market is old outside of Orlando Brown Jr who I doubt the Chiefs let leave after the picks they gave up for him, but this is a great year to snag some starting IOL.

Tomlinson is an interesting choice. He's solid, and he's durable, but I don't think he'd be anywhere near my top choice. Heading into his age 30 season I don't think I like his upside as much as James Daniels, Austin Corbett, Alex Cappa, and Connor Williams. I think he might be just a more expensive option to Ted Karras or Mark Glowinski without a significant increase in results.

I want absolutely nothing to do with Trent Brown. He's missed 24 games the last 3 years including at least 5 in each. That's how you have Isaiah Prince back as starting RT. Same reason I want nothing to do with Armstead or Scherff either. If a guy can't stay healthy, he's not worth it.

Why try to make yourself feel better about a bad OL? Why not just fix it and make it a good OL? The team was just in the Super Bowl. Now isn't a time to sit and settle. It's time to push and go win one in 2022.

Alex Cappa is a good option as well. PFF overall rating 74.2 and 3 years younger than Tomlinson. Only one penalty all season, but he did give up 5 sacks. 

James Daniels had 9 penalties and 3 sacks given up, a 71 rating. Maybe he improves? 
Austin Corbett with 2 penalties and 3 sacks, 68 overall rating.
Connor Williams 15 penalties and 1 sack given up, 76.1 rating.

All of these guards seem like decent options. Are you thinking we need two new starters or one? Maybe we sign two of these guards and draft a RT?

The injury history is the only concern of mine with Brown. With how often our FAs get hurt, it's a legit concern. But are there any other options at RT? Reiff maybe? I think it'd be nice to get a quality RT in the draft, but who knows if the right one will fall to us. 

Jonah Williams is our LT and should remain there. Dude is one of the better in the NFL and will start to get recognized as the Bengals do.

THAT'S IT,,Every other position should be up for grabs

(02-20-2022, 01:41 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Alex Cappa is a good option as well. PFF overall rating 74.2 and 3 years younger than Tomlinson. Only one penalty all season, but he did give up 5 sacks. 

James Daniels had 9 penalties and 3 sacks given up, a 71 rating. Maybe he improves? 
Austin Corbett with 2 penalties and 3 sacks, 68 overall rating.
Connor Williams 15 penalties and 1 sack given up, 76.1 rating.

All of these guards seem like decent options. Are you thinking we need two new starters or one? Maybe we sign two of these guards and draft a RT?

The injury history is the only concern of mine with Brown. With how often our FAs get hurt, it's a legit concern. But are there any other options at RT? Reiff maybe? I think it'd be nice to get a quality RT in the draft, but who knows if the right one will fall to us. 

Need:
2 Guards
1 Center
1 RT (1st round of draft)

There's a lot of good T/RT in the draft. It's a pretty good draft for needing one. Meanwhile I think there's only 1 true IOL expected in the first round of the draft. So IOL needs to be addressed in FA and RT can be addressed in the draft.

(02-13-2022, 12:51 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: We just cant afford to sign too many free agents and still keep our free agents like Spain, Uzomah, Ogunjobi and Bates.
I don't think Reiff will cost as much as a top line FA. I think we will keep Tre Hopkins to avoid dead cap space.
We will need to trust Frank Pollack and his opinion of the long term success will be for Trey Hill, Jackson Carmen, Isiah Prince and Hakeem Adenji are. If he feels like they will develop into starting lineman we may save cap space.

Trey is a $6M savings and $1M dead hit.

(02-20-2022, 01:51 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Jonah Williams is our LT and should remain there. Dude is one of the better in the NFL and will start to get recognized as the Bengals do.

THAT'S IT,,Every other position should be up for grabs

Why do people keep saying Jonah is one of the better LT's?  He ranks 30th overall.  He is average but not a need to replace.

(02-17-2022, 11:43 PM)puddycat Wrote: LT: Jonah Williams, Body
LG: Body, Body
OC: Tyler Linderbaum (2021#31 and 2022 Rd 1 pick), Ben Jones(FA)
RG: Ben Jones(FA), Body
RT: Morgan Moses(FA), Body

Bodies: FAs Quenton Spain, Oday Aboushi(FA), Adeniji, Prince, F Johnson, Carman Jackson, Trey Hill, draft pick

You want to risk 2022 AND 2023 #1 picks on a rookie center whose knock is that he is undersized?  He's only 290.  And you want to add the oldest Center as his back up but also play him at RG which he hasnt played since 2014...?

You are a risky GM brother....

(02-18-2022, 09:27 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I agree Carmen has to emerge but we cannot go into camp this year hoping. We have to have proven FA players.
I would really like to keep Hopkins at Center because he has been here so long but I just don't think he is the guy.
Whoever we draft at 31 oor trade up to 10 will be no better than Jonah Williams his first couple of years.
Again, we cannot take that chance either. I would rather not sign Bates keep Ricardo Allen and draft another safety.
The OL has to be fixed going into camp. Maybe a solid FA line line will help the younger guys develop.

People need to understand how trading up in the draft works.  Each pick is assigned a value and with the last pick in nearly every round we dont have a lot of value. For example, if we traded every single pick this year the highest we could move up would #14 according to the chart.

(02-20-2022, 02:48 AM)casear2727 Wrote: You want to risk 2022 AND 2023 #1 picks on a rookie center whose knock is that he is undersized?  He's only 290.  And you want to add the oldest Center as his back up but also play him at RG which he hasnt played since 2014...?

You are a risky GM brother....

 Aaron Donald is 284 lb.  What's your point?  Linderbaum is the best OL in the draft despite being 290 lb.  

32 years old is why Ben Jones will cost less than Ryan Jensen, despite being the highest performing center hitting free agency. 

Calais Campbell is 36 and played 450 snaps at DT last year.  Even at 8M, he'd be a better option for the Bengals than a 28 yr. old Ogunjobi.

Just watched the 49ers/Rams playoff game and focused on Rams Corbett RG and 49ers Tomlinson LG.
I probably prefer Corbett if I had to pick 1 but would love to have both. Tomlinson on more than 1 occasion handled Aaron Donald by himself on pass protection. It also shows just how poor our offensive line is.

I could also go with the combination of Connor Williams/Glowinski but that would be based on PFF and what i have read. I really like watching them play against great teams to get a real feel for their game. I did watch Cappa's game against the Rams and felt like he gave ground to the def line similar to our guys. Ryan Jensen stood out in that game as a player I would like to have. No doubt upgrade over Hopkins but for how much?