(02-21-2022, 03:00 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: ...Daniels G $10 mil

Norwell G $7.25 mil- this leaves 4/5ths of the O line rebuilt. Should be much improved and offer good bang for the buck. 2 G’s in this range, take your pick. I believe both of mine are LG’s. Not sure how difficult it is to flip sides for G’s but I’m sure many of the G’s on that list can do it...

 
Daniels is a right guard.  Chicago has played him at LG, C and RG.  This past year they kept him at RG and that is where he is projected.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FmOE7Qkmpg

72 million let's see here:

Spain - 5
Moses - 8
Scherff - 17
Blyth - 1
Reiter - 1

that's 32 million for revamping the OL leaving 40 million

Bates - 13
Ogunjobi + Tupou + Kerr - 10
Apple - 3
OJ Howard - 4

That leaves 10 million left to play with.  I was very impressed with Uzomah and Hill, I'm just not so sure that 8 million would be good value for either of them.  You could get fancy and try to restructure Hopkins.  I'm probably more bullish on Hopkins than most, maybe cutting him and going after another center is an option.  They could try to tag and trade Bates maybe to the Cardinals for Hudson and a draft pick - I'd probably just keep him.  

(02-22-2022, 12:38 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: 72 million let's see here:

Spain - 5
Moses - 8
Scherff - 17
Blyth - 1
Reiter - 1

that's 32 million for revamping the OL leaving 40 million

Bates - 13
Ogunjobi + Tupou + Kerr - 10
Apple - 3
OJ Howard - 4

That leaves 10 million left to play with.  I was very impressed with Uzomah and Hill, I'm just not so sure that 8 million would be good value for either of them.  You could get fancy and try to restructure Hopkins.  I'm probably more bullish on Hopkins than most, maybe cutting him and going after another center is an option.  They could try to tag and trade Bates maybe to the Cardinals for Hudson and a draft pick - I'd probably just keep him.  

I think you have to keep bates for at least one more year, see what he is (regular season vs playoffs). So I’m probably tagging him, and see if he signs a team friendly deal with more Guaranteed money.

My hot take was he was going to be the SB MVP, so I lean on the side of keeping him, but not at the expense of the OL. I think with the cap space we have, we can tag him and kick the can down the road. But he can be the best player on this defense.

(02-21-2022, 08:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well yeah, but we also have to re-sign (or tag) Bates, one of either Ogunjobi or Hill (preferably both), and upgrade as many spots on the OL as possible (4 in a perfect world - but 2-3 minimum). And OT’s don’t come cheap. I don’t want to bank on Reiff making it healthy through a full season again. We rolled the dice on that this year and lost.  

Look, I get it, I absolutely love Uzomah. As much as anyone. Would hate to see him go. But $8 mil a year is just way too much for what he brings. Especially with our trio of WR’s and Mixon. CJ’s intangibles would be missed, but I’m kind of past being sentimental about players at this point. Our Super Bowl window officially opened earlier than expected, and I want to go all in while Burrow is on his rookie contract.

And I think 7-8 million dollars can be put to better use than a 5th option in an offense. If he wants to take a team friendly deal to keep playing with Burrow, and stay in Cincinnati - great.

So you're  comfortable with  Sample as our starting  TE? I'm 100% for improving  the offensive line but we still need to keep the core of this team together as well and we can't have a liability like Sample in our starting lineup either. 

(02-21-2022, 08:45 PM)Sanforbd Wrote: No chance we get a 2 for Boyd 

Under 30 WR capable of 1000 yard season and he is on a relatively cheap contract. A team like GB would  love to have a player like Boyd for a 2nd Rd pick.

(02-21-2022, 09:15 PM)Whatever Wrote: It is when you can get Gronk for the same money.

 Is Gronk going to take a discount deal to play for us like he did for Tampa?

I really want James Danies. He is one of the better guards, can play multiple positions on the line, plus he is only 24. Fitting I'm nicely with the age of the other key players already on this team.

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(02-21-2022, 10:19 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: He is expensive and his PFF is 60.8.

No he isn’t. If you are all in on signing one of the top tackles in FA you will pay more than you will for Tunsil.

Anyhow, this was an idea. I think it needs explored, moving 31 for a proven tackle before going into FA if possible.

(02-22-2022, 02:41 AM)J24 Wrote: So you're  comfortable with  Sample as our starting  TE? I'm 100% for improving  the offensive line but we still need to keep the core of this team together as well and we can't have a liability like Sample in our starting lineup either. 


Under 30 WR capable of 1000 yard season and he is on a relatively cheap contract. A team like GB would  love to have a player like Boyd for a 2nd Rd pick.
 Is Gronk going to take a discount deal to play for us like he did for Tampa?

I don't know that anyone would be good with Sample starting next year.

The issue with trading Boyd is you're just creating another hole in the lineup to fill.  If we had some young talent behind him, it'd be different.  However, our backups suck and most are FA's.  

Gronk is projected at 1 year $8 mil and says he wants to play with Burrow.  CJ is a 6 year vet that just had a career year and still wasn't an upper half of the league starter.  

(02-22-2022, 10:59 AM)Whatever Wrote: I don't know that anyone would be good with Sample starting next year.

The issue with trading Boyd is you're just creating another hole in the lineup to fill.  If we had some young talent behind him, it'd be different.  However, our backups suck and most are FA's.  

Gronk is projected at 1 year $8 mil and says he wants to play with Burrow.  CJ is a 6 year vet that just had a career year and still wasn't an upper half of the league starter.  

Fair point about Boyd however with a 2nd.RD pick + a free agent WR hypothetically they should be able to fill that void. Plus Morgan does have some ability and did get snaps as a blocking WR.

As for the TE if Gronk is willing to come to Cincinnati at 8 Million then sweet. I think he could  get around 10 Million elsewhere though.

(02-22-2022, 01:37 PM)J24 Wrote: Fair point about Boyd however with a 2nd.RD pick + a free agent WR hypothetically they should be able to fill that void. Plus Morgan does have some ability and did get snaps as a blocking WR.

As for the TE if Gronk is willing to come to Cincinnati at 8 Million then sweet. I think he could  get around 10 Million elsewhere though.

Gronk isn’t coming here, he was just being goofy and talking like Gronk does

For me based on the salary projections strictly for the offensive line I could see the Bengals upgrading with 2 starters in FA, and addressing another in the draft. For me the whole RIGHT side needs a major upgrade, so I could see us doing:

RG- Mark Glowinski(Colts) 6.25
RT- Morgan Moses(Washington) 7.5

Starters- Williams, Carmen, Hopkins, Glowinski, Moses

Reserves- Prince, Hill, Smith

Draft:

RD 2: Max Mitchell- RT (Louisiana)
RD 4: Dohnovan West-C/G (Arizona ST)

-this still allows us to focus on bringing back our own FA"s as well as maybe adding a solid backup QB too.

There are a few good free agents we could land that would improve the line and not break the bank


Right Tackle:

Not many options for right tackle.  Basically you have Morgan Moses at $7.5M per year 71.0 PFF 4 sacks or Trent Brown 12.5m per year 77.6 PFF 1 sack in 489 snaps



Right Guard:

I like James Daniels.  PPF of 71 and gave up 3 sacks.  By comparison Alex Cappa has a PPF of 74.2 and gave up 5 sacks
Mark Glowinski 2 sacks, PFF of 70.1 $6.25M.  Austin Corbett 9.25m 68.8 3 sacks.  Brandon Scherff 0 sacks allowed 73.6 pff but we cant afford him


Center:


Hopkins is set to make $7.1M this year.  We can upgrade the talent at this position for the same amount of money or less.  I think for center Ben Jones has to be the guy we go after.  He only allowed 1 sack, has a great PFF and would be a clear upgrade over Hopkins.   The cap hit would be about the same for Hopkins and Jones so that wouldnt be a problem. The only downside is he is 32.  

Jensen would cost way too much if he is after 13 million a year.  You could get Jones for almost half of that and Jones had better stats.

Im not sure what to think about Bradley Bozeman.  He gave up 3 sacks blocking for Lamar Jackson.  Jackson is one the best at getting away from defenders so how many sacks would Bozeman give up blocking for Burrow?

Ted Karras $4.33M might be a good option if we cant get Jones. He can play guard and center and would could be signed for less than Hopkins and Jones. 72.8 PFF with 3 sacks


Left Guard:


We need to replace Spain. He was dominated in the playoffs and only managed a PFF of 46.1  Its going to be hard to win a championship with that level of talent especially if Spain is going to cost $4.75M per year to resign.  He needs repalced.

You have two good options.  Laken Tomlinson $9M per year is probably the best left guard available 2 sacks 75.9 PFF.   Connor Williams would be a little cheaper at $6.7M a year and is good but he lacks the power of Tomlinson.  Williams numbers may also be skewed by playing beside Tyron Smith who is one of the best tackles in the NFL. A little futher behind those two you have Andrew Norwell for 7.25M per year with a PFF of 66.7 and 3 sacks

2022 Oline based on current starters:

RT   Reiff $7M.............67.3 PFF, 4 sacks
RG   Adeniji $1M.........48.3 PFF, 3 sacks in 555 snaps
C     Hopkins $7.1M.....51.4 PFF, 4 sacks
LG   Spain $4.75M.......72.3 PFF, 5 sacks

Total cost = $19.85M



Best 2022 Oline without breaking the bank:

RT   T. Brown $10M.........77.6 PFF, 1 sack in 489 snaps
RG   Daniels $10M...........71.0 PFF, 3 sacks
C     Ben Jones $6.67M....77.8 PFF, 1 sack
LG   Tomlinson $9M.........75.9 PFF, 2 sacks

Total cost = $35.67M    Bringing in these guys would add $15.82M to the cap over the current starting Oline



Best improvent to the Oline while keeping the extra cap hit low:

RT   Moses $7.5M..............70.1 PFF, 4 sacks
RG   Glowinski $6.25M.......70.1 PFF, 2 sacks
C     Karras $4.33M............72.8 PFF, 3 sacks
LG   C. Williams $6.67M.....76.1 PFF, 1 sack

Total cost = $24.75M   Bringing in these guys would add $4.9M to the cap over the current starting Oline.

Good thread.

I won't crunch too many numbers. I'm not a math guy. But I think I have a basic understanding of what we're up against:

Priority #1) Ben Jones, C. A rock. Veteran. Winner. Would solidify the line right away. I'm not worried about 3 years down the road. And if Jones isn't available, try to land Evan Brown from Detroit. With Ragnow coming back they may be looking to move him. He showed out well this past season and deserves to play somewhere (his PBWR was #9 among Centers).

#2) Laken Tomlinson, LG. Just like Jones, I like how he's had some recent success. Don't want to be teaching these guys how to win. Ain't nobody got time for that. Good RBWR, fwiw.

#3) Trade for Shaq Mason, RG. The Pats are a bit like the Lions in that they have an extra body inside (Okwenu, Karras, Mason). Also cap problems and may look to swing a deal to clear space. Enter Shaq. I don't know what it would take but he'd fit like a glove for us. #9 PBWR in 2021 and smack dab in the middle of his prime. $10.15 cap hit with two years left. 

Those three IOL would come out to about $25 MM. Which is fine. It's a little more than one Armstead lol. We can make do with the bookends. I might move Jonah over to the right side and give Smith a shot as the blind-side protector. I think they'd both thrive in those roles. Point is, there's versatility to experiment when the three guys inside are steady, as opposed to playing whack-a-mole from left to right all season.

#4) Sign Bates long-term. Essential contributor in the backfield. His game won't fall off anytime soon and I'm not a big fan of tagging guys. Give him $15 MM.

The above would approach about $40 MM, plus $8-10 for the draft. Waive Waynes and Hopkins. Sign Ogunjobi and maybe Uzomah if there's room (in that order). Then fill in the cracks by signing guys off the scrap heap like we did last year. Go BPA at the draft and fortify position groups (ideally starting with the DL). I'm aware that I'll probably be losing a few picks to land Mason and/or Brown, but such is life.

(02-23-2022, 01:24 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: 2022 Oline based on current starters:

Reiff $7M
Adeniji $1M
Hopkins $7.1M
Spain $4.75M

Total cost = $19.85M



Best 2022 Oline without breaking the bank:

T Brown 10M
Daniels 10M
Ben Jones 6.67M
Tomlinson 9M

Total cost = $35.67M  Bringing in these guys would add $15.82M to the cap over the current starting Oline



Best improvent to the Oline while keeping the extra cap hit low:

Moses 7.5M
Glowinski 6.25M
Karras 4.33M
C. Williams 6.67M

Total cost = $24.75M  Bringing in these guys would add $4.9M to the cap over the current starting Oline.

You're leaving out Jonah Williams

(02-23-2022, 01:27 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You're leaving out Jonah Williams

Im keeping him.  I just replaced everyone on the Oline but Jonah as he is the least of our worries.  Jonah stays regardless of who else on the oline we bring in.

(02-23-2022, 01:53 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Im keeping him.  I just replaced everyone on the Oline but Jonah as he is the least of our worries.  Jonah stays regardless of who else on the oline we bring in.

I see.

WTS, I'd like to see what we can get Reiff to resign for. This was his first year ever at RT and performed well. Obviously injury history is a concern but that's why he's affordable. 

(02-23-2022, 02:02 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I see.

WTS, I'd like to see what we can get Reiff to resign for. This was his first year ever at RT and performed well. Obviously injury history is a concern but that's why he's affordable. 

Im just going by the figures PFF has listed.  Last year we know Reiff made $7.5M.   For 2022 PFF lists his salary at $7M.   Obviously all these figures are estimates so it could move up or down either way for most of these guys.

You also have to consider Reiff was out for weeks and still couldnt heal in time for the Super Bowl. That injury has to be fairly serious. He also will be 34 next year so you wonder if this is going to start being a problem. If Reiff was our only option, we could bring him back but there are a couple of better options in free agency.

(02-23-2022, 02:08 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Im just going by the figures PFF has listed.  Last year we know Reiff made $7.5M.   For 2022 PFF lists his salary at $7M.   Obviously all these figures are estimates so it could move up or down either way for most of these guys.

You also have to consider Reiff was out for weeks and still couldnt heal in time for the Super Bowl.  That injury has to be fairly serious.  He also will be 34 next year so you wonder if this is going to start being a problem.  If Reiff was our only option, we could bring him back but there are a couple of better options in free agency.

As I said: Injury is a concern, but if reasonable, he'd be a good RT and a great swing tackle. We could probably do the same thing with Eric Fisher this year that we did withRR last year, 

Surprised no one mentioned Trent Brown...but the recent injury history might be a little worrisome:

The Raiders sent Brown back to the New England Patriots two years into the four-year, $66 million mega-deal he signed with Las Vegas in 2019. New England revised the deal, reducing his compensation and making him a free agent after 2021. Like linebacker Jamie Collins, Brown seems to be a superstar with the Patriots but lackluster anywhere else. That being said, the 6-foot-8, 380-pound offensive lineman earned career highs in pass-blocking grade (81.2) and overall grade (77.6) on 489 snaps last season.

Strengths:
– Size
– Pass-blocking
– High percentage of positively graded run blocks

Weaknesses:
– High percentage of negatively graded run blocks
– Durability

Scheme Fit/Role:
STARTING TACKLE IN ANY SCHEME: Brown has had success on both the left and right sides. He can move people in the run game, even though he'll have his share of losses, and he's been one of the better pass-blocking tackles in the league over the last few years. He's capable in both zone and gap schemes.

Recent Injury History:
Brown has missed time due to several lower-body injures over the last few years. After a 1,341-snap season in 2018, Brown played just 11 games in 2019, five in 2020 and he missed time in 2021 due to a calf injury.

Contract Projection: Two years, $20 million (incentives could push it to $25 million), $15 million total guaranteed

Bottom Line:
When Brown is on the field, he's been a strong option in both pass protection and in the run game across multiple systems and at different positions. If he stays healthy, Brown is one of the better tackles in the NFL.

Here is Eric Fisher's write-up:

Fisher suffered an unfortunate Achilles injury in the 2020 AFC Championship and then underwent surgery before returning to football action just seven months later in mid-September. The mere fact Fisher was even ready to play by Week 2 of the 2021 season is remarkable, and he showed improvement as the season wore on while protecting Carson Wentz’s blindside and working his way back to 100% health. Fisher is a former No. 1 overall pick, and while he may not have lived up to those lofty expectations, he’s a very solid NFL left tackle, which every team can always use. His one-year, $8.38 million deal with the Indianapolis Colts even while questions still remained about his recovery illustrates the kind of market he will have this offseason now back in top form — a strong one.

Strengths:
– Very good athlete
– Blocking on the move
– Consistent in pass pro for most his career

Weaknesses:
– Struggles with power off the edge
– Run blocking in gap scheme

Scheme Fit/Role:
STARTING LEFT TACKLE: Fisher fits in the mold of average starting tackles that fanbases think they can upgrade over, but the reality of replacing an average tackle isn't always pleasant. Fisher fits best in a zone-blocking scheme.

Recent Injury History:
Fisher got off to a slow start to the season as he made his way back from an Achilles injury that he suffered in the 2020 AFC Championship game. He also missed eight games during the 2019 season following core muscle surgery.

Contract Projection: Three years, $48 million ($16M per year, $31.25 million total guaranteed)

Bottom Line:
Fisher understandably had a slow start to the 2021 season as he worked his way back from an Achilles injury, but he's bounced back a bit down the stretch. He's an average starting tackle who will have lowlight moments against power-rushers who can get into his chest.