(04-18-2022, 05:18 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Seriously, why?

He himself has said he doesn't want to be the highest paid safety in the league. Taking that into account, the Bengals can absolutely afford to take on his new contract and should pay him.

What he says vs what his agent says could be vastly different

(04-18-2022, 09:15 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: What he says vs what his agent says could be vastly different

I agree but another reason why we might be waiting is to see what positions we need to address in free agency after the draft so we know how much we'll have to offer him. 

He's an important piece but they might just be playing it smart and waiting to see what positions we'll need to address and everything before we even think about restructuring or cutting guys to make sure we have enough to offer him what he deserves.

(04-18-2022, 06:05 PM)Housh Wrote: If Jamal Adams got 4 years 70 million 38 guaranteed Bates is probably around 4 years 60 mill with 30 guaranteed. I honestly wanna say 2 years 30 million is my sweet spot for him because it allows him to get another huge deal if he plays well but if i were him i wouldn’t want a 2 year deal.

And at times Bates looks like the best safety in the league. At other times, he looks average.

It's hard to price that.

My guess is the Bengals want to see how he plays this year.

(04-18-2022, 06:30 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: This is the part I do understand with Bates. I mean it's no different than any other job. If your coming to work and doing everything they ask of you and you see other people getting increases while your not moral is gonna go down. It's just that simple. 

I don't know. Team sports are filled with guys who have career year in the last year of their contract.

Maybe Bates is just an inconsistent safety that looks great at times and average others?

(04-18-2022, 09:14 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Love Nick Cross, he can play both SS and FS, lots of speed and a hitter.  Guy likes to tackle... I'm all for grabbing him.

My guess is the Bengals will draft a Safety within 1st 3 Rounds. Maybe not round 1...although that's possible.

Well Weezy your question has been answered many times in this thread. I just have to say that I love Jessie Bates but if
he wants top 5 Safety money than he is kidding himself with his play last year. Dude played great in the Playoffs but he did
not play like a top 5 Safety at all in the regular season and is at the best a top 10 Safety based on that play.

I want Bates to stay, but he has to want it enough to take this into consideration and the fact he isn't the best tackler.

Great range though, which is why we should pay him big if he doesn't fall for his agents BS that he is a top 5 Safety.

He still might be down the road but he didn't even have a good year early last year as others like George said. Bates had
something in his head about needing a contract now at the time and he said it himself while he was playing poorly.

I would like to point out that while Bates might not have had the best season last year he did step up in the playoffs. I know others as well as myself want to brush that off. But big time players make big time plays in big time moments and he was a key part of a defense that got us to a superbowl and it shouldn't be undersold.

I also wanted to say that I just now saw the Browns Ward deal and how is this possible. I know Watson is only getting a Mill this year but what about the future. Bates or not I feel like the Bengals could make something else happen if they wanted to.

(04-18-2022, 06:18 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I must have missed where Bates said he didn't want to be the highest paid safety. I had hoped that wasn't the case. I'm all for paying him as he is liked by a lot of the players and seems to be a team leader. He is also pretty steady with his play and in my eyes had earned another contract. I does feel like the Bengals are not as creative with they're contracts as other teams. I also think we could find ourselves in a bad spot with him if we let it ride until after the draft. If we don't draft a safety his price isn't going down but if we draft an heir apparent early than that could cause it's own drama. 

If I had my way I would say hopefully we can draft a guy like Nick Cross a safety that can get on the field this year but probably fills more of the Vonn Bell role going forward. Then if we get thru the rest of the draft filling most of our areas of concern we can use some of our remaining cap space on a Bates deal. At least as far as if we want the larger cap hit in year 1.

Bates never said he didn't want to be the highest paid S.  He said he wasn't overly concerned "with the ego part of becoming the highest paid S". 

(04-18-2022, 05:32 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Bates was franchised tagged this year.  He had an on and off season last year and his worst season statistically.  He certainly didn't come out of the gate very hot.   He even admitted a lack of focus during the first half of the season:

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2021/11/18/22784629/bengals-news-jessie-bates-admits-lack-focus




So my guess is they are going to let him play under the tag unless he is willing to take a more reasonable long term deal than he was expecting last season when he talked about negotiations, "I guess I haven't done enough yet to be considered one of the top safeties in this league."

His mind was on that money until he realized how good this team was and how weak he was making himself look on a much better than expected team.

(04-18-2022, 11:01 PM)Whatever Wrote: Bates never said he didn't want to be the highest paid S.  He said he wasn't overly concerned "with the ego part of becoming the highest paid S". 

I do wish that shit would stop. I might be the 11th best CB in the league, but I'm the #1 in free agency so I deserve to be the highest paid of all time.

Or I'm the next free agent QB that can at least get a winning record up for contract so I deserve to be the highest paid QB of all time.

(04-18-2022, 06:21 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't buy the BS he lacked motivation due to not getting a new contract, 

I agree.

Every other player in the history of the league has his best season when playing for a new contract, but Bates claimed his play stunk because he  "lacked motivation"?

Seriously, WTF???

(04-18-2022, 09:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: My guess is the Bengals will draft a Safety within 1st 3 Rounds. Maybe not round 1...although that's possible.

This.

I really hope to see a safety in the first three rounds.

Hopefully top 2 rounds since we are drafting so late.

Fun Fact:

When someone gives you rep in this thread the **** in the title shows up as the real word on you CP page

(04-18-2022, 05:50 PM)Burreaux Wrote: He wants more than the Bengals are willing to offer. It’s that simple. They’ve earned my trust over the past couple years.

yeah im not wild about overpaying for a safety

This is why we need to target Daxton Hill in the draft IMHO.

(04-18-2022, 06:18 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I must have missed where Bates said he didn't want to be the highest paid safety.

Yeah, I never saw this either. Also even if true, $17.5m/yr is still not "the highest paid", but it's still a ton and $1.5m/yr more than the current #2.

(04-18-2022, 06:30 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: This is the part I do understand with Bates. I mean it's no different than any other job. If your coming to work and doing everything they ask of you and you see other people getting increases while your not moral is gonna go down. It's just that simple. 

Except in your analogy it would be like you sucking at your job in 2021 because your employer won't guarantee what your raise is going to be in 2023 right now, and then wondering why you're not being given a 5 year guarantee of huge raises based around your performance in 2020 while ignoring you sucking in 2021.

(04-18-2022, 05:18 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Seriously, why?

He himself has said he doesn't want to be the highest paid safety in the league. Taking that into account, the Bengals can absolutely afford to take on his new contract and should pay him.

Look, I know this has been beaten to death, but hear me out...

The salary cap is set to EXPLODE in a year or two with the new TV deals kicking in, fans back in attendance, gambling money, and the amazon money coming in.

Shouldn't the Bengals be doing everything possible to sign their best players to extensions right now BEFORE the cap increases? That way they are paying guys relative to this years cap number which is smaller than the future cap number. You could almost get a discount on Bates by signing him now compared to the current cap number and before contracts are set to sky rocket.

People have this same theory about signing Burrow next off-season - why would we not apply it to Bates?

Look at Jalen Ramsey for example. The guy is the best CB in the league and signed a deal in 2020 - 100 million over 5 years with 10 million of that guaranteed. Denzel Ward who is an inferior player just got basically the same deal with the Browns with over 75 million of it guaranteed.

Do we see where this is going?

If the rumors are true and it's hung up on guaranteed money (say Bates want's 80% of it guaranteed) then the front office is truly ***** themselves. If you can't get by giving your best player on defense guaranteed money than you sure as hell aren't going to get by giving some of the best players in the NFL guaranteed money (Burrow, Chase).

Some fans are going to point the finger at the front office for not having the "guts" to guarantee more of the deal.  I am unsure of this actual verbiage, but I have HEARD that some of the so-called guaranteed money isn't always guaranteed after all.  There can be language that states "the money is guaranteed if the player is on the roster.  Well, then if the player is injured or a complete dud after getting the deal, they can be released and the so-called guarantee is dust.

Bates had a poor season by most measures, but was lights out in the playoffs.  He openly admitted this himself and bravely blamed his own ability to not let the lack of a contract extension affect him.  I respect that.  However, he is turning around and allowing the same thing (although the FT is much greater than his earnings last year).  Say his play returns to this below average performance after he signs, and he thinks he should still have 80% of the contract guaranteed?  I don't think so.  

Look at his peers like Bell, Awuzie, Hilton, and Apple.  All starters.  All quality players (and I think Awuzie is the best of the bunch).  Their salaries are individually a fraction of what the Bengals have reportedly offered Bates.  Why does he think he is worth that much more than all of them and guaranteed?  

In my eyes, and I will be the minority here, this is about an agent's ego and not a player's value.  This agent also represents Tee Higgins and I could see that being a problem down the road.  I'm not going to stress about Higgins now, but I feel bad for Bates as I think he is getting really bad advice from his agent.  For his mental health, and to be in a place where he knows everyone, knows the scheme, has trust in the DC, and is offered a top dollar contract (just without the guarantees beyond the first year, but I am sure a big signing bonus), he should have just signed.  As it is, he is on a one-year deal and he could find himself with a LOT less on the table a year from now if he has an injury of plays the entire season like he did last year in the regular season.  

For the record, I love the guy and think he is a top tier safety, but I think he is making a mistake here.  Hope it works out for him in the long run.  

(04-18-2022, 05:54 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: His agent wears the pants

(04-18-2022, 06:05 PM)Housh Wrote: If Jamal Adams got 4 years 70 million 38 guaranteed Bates is probably around 4 years 60 mill with 30 guaranteed. I honestly wanna say 2 years 30 million is my sweet spot for him because it allows him to get another huge deal if he plays well but if i were him i wouldn’t want a 2 year deal.

Yeah, Adams deal was kind of an outlier, and I haven't broken down the top safety contracts for a while, but I believe the Bengals are said to have offered him a four-year deal that is an average of the top 5 safeties, but the guaranteed dollars don't extend beyond the first year and the signing bonus.  Hard for me to quantify what that is exactly, but I know this:  It is almost double what Awuzie, Apple, Bell, or Hilton make....and I just don't know if I agree with that, but the Bengals have reportedly offered a solid number but without the 80% guaranteed that his agent is demanding.

I truly hope this can work out in the long term for both Jesse and the Bengals, but I think the ego of this agent will prevent it.  

Bates could end up getting the tag AGAIN next year, so I hope his agent has explained that scenario.  The Bengals hold all the cards, and if they offered him something in the neighborhood of $15-16 million per year over 4 years and the sticking point is that he wants to be the ONLY Bengal with 80% of it guaranteed, then I think he is not being a good agent, but an ego-driven guy only looking for status for himself to gain more clients.  

(04-18-2022, 05:18 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Seriously, why?

He himself has said he doesn't want to be the highest paid safety in the league. Taking that into account, the Bengals can absolutely afford to take on his new contract and should pay him.

Look, I know this has been beaten to death, but hear me out...

The salary cap is set to EXPLODE in a year or two with the new TV deals kicking in, fans back in attendance, gambling money, and the amazon money coming in.

Shouldn't the Bengals be doing everything possible to sign their best players to extensions right now BEFORE the cap increases? That way they are paying guys relative to this years cap number which is smaller than the future cap number. You could almost get a discount on Bates by signing him now compared to the current cap number and before contracts are set to sky rocket.

People have this same theory about signing Burrow next off-season - why would we not apply it to Bates?

Look at Jalen Ramsey for example. The guy is the best CB in the league and signed a deal in 2020 - 100 million over 5 years with 10 million of that guaranteed. Denzel Ward who is an inferior player just got basically the same deal with the Browns with over 75 million of it guaranteed.

Do we see where this is going?

If the rumors are true and it's hung up on guaranteed money (say Bates want's 80% of it guaranteed) then the front office is truly ***** themselves. If you can't get by giving your best player on defense guaranteed money than you sure as hell aren't going to get by giving some of the best players in the NFL guaranteed money (Burrow, Chase).

they tagged him  why hasnt he signed that tag yet?

He did not play at a high level all year last year is probly part of the problem'

Hes not worth 80% guarenteed thats a horrible contract for everyone not named bates