(04-18-2022, 09:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: My guess is the Bengals will draft a Safety within 1st 3 Rounds. Maybe not round 1...although that's possible.

Yep, I would love it if the Bengals got Cook out of UC in the 3rd.  I'm not being a UC Homer, but I would love a first three rounds that go:

Booth
Pierce
Cook

My biggest wish outside of that (with Booth) would be to get a stud potential 3T in 2nd round like Logan Hall or Devonte Wyatt, but I think they will be long gone.  

(04-19-2022, 12:36 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Fun Fact:

When someone gives you rep in this thread the **** in the title shows up as the real word on you CP page

Another fun fact:

It also shows in the crawler at the top of the homepage. 

They tried to get him signed prior to free agency, but they were at a stalemate. Almost certainly due to guaranteed dollars.

Then free agency started, so the Bengals FO focused on that.
Now the draft is here, so they are focused on that.

I think they'll circle back and talk to Bates again in May or June, but it is looking like he will almost certainly play on the franchise tag this year. If he is expecting 60 to 70% of the contract to be guaranteed, that's just not something the Bengals do. Even when they really like a player.

Bates' agent has several other safety clients and the recent contracts they've signed have been:
Budda Baker (33/59 guaranteed) 56%
Kevin Byard (31/70 guaranteed) 44%
Quandre Diggs (27/39) 69%
And then there was the Marcus Williams contract, (37/70 guaranteed) 53%

Historically, the Bengals refuse to give much more than ~35% of any given contract guaranteed.

Trey Hendrickson got 16/60 (27%), DJ Reader 20.5/53 (39%), Joe Mixon 10/40 (25%), BJ Hill 13/40 (32.5%), Cappa 11/35 (31%), Awuzie 7.5/22 (34%), Hubbard 10/40 (25%), Waynes 15/42 (36%).

Going back further, Dalton 17/96 (18%), Green 33/60 (55%), Palmer 19/97 (20%).

Unless I'm forgetting any big names, it seems we've only given >50% guaranteed a single time, with Green. Many are in the 25 to 35% range. The recent safety contracts are in the 40 to 70% range.

If Bates wants a contract like that, then he's probably going to have to go to another team.

Maybe they break their pattern for Bates, but I'm not expecting them to.

The most annoying thing is that the Bengals don't do literal guarantees, but they do "practical" guarantees. Look at Tray Waynes. Only 15 million was guaranteed, but the Bengals kept him for 2 years for doing nothing at all, meaning his actual guarantee was 30.8 million, which would be 73%... I wish Bates' agent would realize this and advise his client appropriately. Because at least the first two years of any deal Bates signs are guaranteed. And the only way they'd cut him at that point is if he had a catastrophic implosion or is injured for both years.

I just hope we get something for him next off season with a tag and trade.

I'd love it if we could trade him for a 1st or so this year and then sign Tyrann Mathieu.

If Bates is smart he’ll sign whatever long term deal is on the table now.


If he waits until Burrow time it’ll be so easy for the FO to let him walk and blame it on Burrow

By that point he could be 2-3 subpar regular seasons in and now the deal we have on the table isn’t even viable.

(04-19-2022, 01:14 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I just hope we get something for him next off season with a tag and trade.

Whenever you don't re-sign a high priced free agent you get a their salary to spend on another player.

(04-19-2022, 01:14 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The most annoying thing is that the Bengals don't do literal guarantees, but they do "practical" guarantees... I wish Bates' agent would realize this and advise his client appropriately. Because at least the first two years of any deal Bates signs are guaranteed. 

Preston Brown begs to differ.

Bates is only really gambling with being injured. If the Bengals draft his replacement early and trade or release him he will certainly be getting a raise.

Trade would be best scenario for Bengals if the right Safety fell to them in draft. Would get an extra 3rd round pick and have 12 million to spend in FA still.

(04-19-2022, 06:05 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Trade would be best scenario for Bengals if the right Safety fell to them in draft. Would get an extra 3rd round pick and have 12 million to spend in FA still.

Has Bates signed his franchise tag? Can't trade him if he hasn't signed.

(04-19-2022, 06:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Has Bates signed his franchise tag? Can't trade him if he hasn't signed.

Then Bates holds all the cards by not signing, unless he gets hurt while unsigned obviously. 

No wonder he has yet to put some ink on the paper. 

(04-19-2022, 07:34 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Then Bates holds all the cards by not signing, unless he gets hurt while unsigned obviously. 

No wonder he has yet to put some ink on the paper. 

Not really.  If the Bengals rescind the tag, Bates will have a hard time finding a team able to meet his salary demands this far into FA.  He could get stuck on a prove it deal worth less than the FT.

(04-19-2022, 09:20 PM)Whatever Wrote: Not really.  If the Bengals rescind the tag, Bates will have a hard time finding a team able to meet his salary demands this far into FA.  He could get stuck on a prove it deal worth less than the FT.

Possible being so late in the year, but more than likely see some team is finding the money. 

So what is the angle Bates and his agent are working here then ? Certainly they're not that dumb to chance letting a rug worth over a quarter of a million dollars a week be pulled from beneath their feet.

Seen Darrell Griffith lose when breaking foot in pick up game while contract was unsigned with the Jazz back in the day.  So it is possible to have it blow up in their face. But have to subscribe to there being a beneficial reason in their mind that could pay dividends to even take the gamble.   

(04-19-2022, 10:22 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Possible being so late in the year, but more than likely see some team is finding the money. 

So what is the angle Bates and his agent are working here then ? Certainly they're not that dumb to chance letting a rug worth over a quarter of a million dollars a week be pulled from beneath their feet.

Seen Darrell Griffith lose when breaking foot in pick up game while contract was unsigned with the Jazz back in the day.  So it is possible to have it blow up in their face. But have to subscribe to there being a beneficial reason in their mind that could pay dividends to even take the gamble.   

It's pretty simple, actually.  Since Bates isn't under contract, he can't be fined for missing OTA's, TC, and games.  He can lessen his injury risk by holding out of those things and the team can do nothing about it.  By NFL rules, he only has to be on the active roster, IR, and/or PUP for 6 games to accrue a season and be eligible for UFA next year.  Dude could literally sit at home for 11 games before signing the FT and still be an UFA next year.  

I think he shows up ready to win. At the end o the day money talks. Sure he can't be fined but he wont be paid either. Every game check is a lot of money

(04-19-2022, 04:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Whenever you don't re-sign a high priced free agent you get a their salary to spend on another player.

Yea, but if they tag and trade, then they get that salary space AND a pick :).

(04-19-2022, 04:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Preston Brown begs to differ.

That was a pretty weird occurence. I wonder if there was some behind the scenes stuff that led the Bengals to cutting him so soon after extending him.

(04-20-2022, 12:58 AM)Whatever Wrote: It's pretty simple, actually.  Since Bates isn't under contract, he can't be fined for missing OTA's, TC, and games.  He can lessen his injury risk by holding out of those things and the team can do nothing about it.  By NFL rules, he only has to be on the active roster, IR, and/or PUP for 6 games to accrue a season and be eligible for UFA next year.  Dude could literally sit at home for 11 games before signing the FT and still be an UFA next year.  

Yes, he could do all of that, but he would get a check for 6 games, not 17. He would lose a ton of money and still risk injury. He would lose in $8 million if he sat out 11 games.

(04-20-2022, 11:13 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Yes, he could do all of that, but he would get a check for 6 games, not 17. He would lose a ton of money and still risk injury. He would lose in $8 million if he sat out 11 games.

That's true, but we're also talking reducing his chance of being injured in the regular season by 65% and reducing his chances of being injured in OTA's, TC, and preseason to 0%.  

Another very real possibility is Bates doesn't sign the FT at all and sits out the entire year, daring the team to FT him next year.  When you look at all the opt out players that were drafted in the Top 10 last year and the contract Watson got after being on the exempt list for a year, it's pretty obvious NFL GM's care very little about guys sitting out a year in regards to their value.  

Also keep in mind he can also pull an AJ Green and sit all year with a minor injury that never seems to improve.

Folks need to realize that once the deadline for reaching a long term deal has passed, Bates and his agent's priority becomes deterring the Bengals from tagging him again next year.  If he does all the right things, that only encourages them to tag him again.

(04-19-2022, 12:36 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Fun Fact:

When someone gives you rep in this thread the **** in the title shows up as the real word on you CP page

Saw that lol 

I have feeling Bates is gone after the season. But I would need confirmation from this years draft. If Bengals select Dax Hill, Cine or Cross in Rounds 1-3, I think Bates is gone. If Bates played better curing the regular season then he would have case. Rumor has his agent asking top 5 money but not the top money for safety. Top 5 would put him at least 14-15 million per.

(04-20-2022, 12:53 PM)Whatever Wrote: That's true, but we're also talking reducing his chance of being injured in the regular season by 65% and reducing his chances of being injured in OTA's, TC, and preseason to 0%.  

Another very real possibility is Bates doesn't sign the FT at all and sits out the entire year, daring the team to FT him next year.  When you look at all the opt out players that were drafted in the Top 10 last year and the contract Watson got after being on the exempt list for a year, it's pretty obvious NFL GM's care very little about guys sitting out a year in regards to their value.  

Also keep in mind he can also pull an AJ Green and sit all year with a minor injury that never seems to improve.

Folks need to realize that once the deadline for reaching a long term deal has passed, Bates and his agent's priority becomes deterring the Bengals from tagging him again next year.  If he does all the right things, that only encourages them to tag him again.

If Bates does not sign the tag, Bengals could tag him again (be just like tagging him for 1st time), FO has control of these situations, not just ours but others. The life span of an NFL player is not long, so if I am the player, I would not give up 8 million or 13 million to prove a point. Bell tried something similar, now he is an old and useless RB instead of making tens of millions, he gave up a lot of it.

(04-20-2022, 01:28 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I have feeling Bates is gone after the season.  But I would need confirmation from this years draft.  If Bengals select Dax Hill, Cine or Cross in Rounds 1-3, I think Bates is gone.  If Bates played better curing the regular season then he would have case.  Rumor has his agent asking top 5 money but not the top money for safety.  Top 5 would put him at least 14-15 million per.

Well...Bell is a free agent after the season too.

Generally, when you win...it makes your players worth more. And you can't keep everyone.