(07-18-2022, 04:45 PM)MasonDT70 Wrote: I've never gotten the disrespect hall has gotten. He was never bad and it took 2 Achilles tears to limit his play. 

I am not disrespecting him. He was a very good cb. He was not as good his last couple years. His pay was above his play. Most teams would have moved on from him. I’m pretty sure he played out his contract here, which was the point I was making in reference to bates signing a long term deal here


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(07-18-2022, 02:02 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If Bengals aren't even above $20 mill guaranteed, I'd be irritated if I were Bates.

I'd find it very hard to believe they're not above $20 Mil guaranteed. They just guaranteed $13 Mil for this year. As I said:

I cannot blame the Bengals; nor could I blame Jessie until now.

Before last week's deadline he had options, now he does not. Well I guess he has 2:

Play and get paid $13 MIL

Sit out and try again next year.

Heaven forbid, but if dude got severely hurt today; he'd get nothing. 

(07-18-2022, 04:43 PM)Housh Wrote: Is this true? I remember him being bad his last few years. Like i did not like him guarding speedy guys on the outside. To his credit he hung on as a starter even after he lost his speed which means he was just a smart ass player. I just can’t believe he was top 20 every year he was healthy.

After his Achilles injuries, he was the BEST slot CB in the league, with Adam and Newman on the outside.

The, "can't cover speed," narrative was because he couldn't cover Ted Ginn in college.

Nobody stuck on guys like Leon did (on the Bengals).

He’ll either sit or play for us. I think the likelihood of a trade is under 25%.

I’m really not too concerned about any of this after the draft. We can get by/win while the young safeties fill into their role. I really like our draft picks this year and feel great about our future in the secondary (without bates).

The bottom line is bates is expendable after such a successful draft. Good luck to him in whatever path he chooses. I’d like a ring on my portfolio if I were him. One good year, a super bowl win, then cash in on FA next year. Seems like a great situation to squander. I get the not wanting to get injured, but 12 million is a lot of money—and a bigger payday in one year’s time.

(07-18-2022, 11:16 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: After his Achilles injuries, he was the BEST slot CB in the league, with Adam and Newman on the outside.

The, "can't cover speed," narrative was because he couldn't cover Ted Ginn in college.

Nobody stuck on guys like Leon did (on the Bengals).

This makes sense. I remember him in the slot but football reference listed all his career at right CB.


I knew there was like a year he played slot and was good

Basically, the Stains screwed the whole league by guaranteeing Watson's full contract. Now all players are going to want excessive guarantees. There are no guarantees in any other job, why should there be guarantees for guys being paid millions to play a game? The league needs to reign this crap in.

(07-19-2022, 12:54 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: He’ll either sit or play for us. I think the likelihood of a trade is under 25%.

I’m really not too concerned about any of this after the draft. We can get by/win while the young safeties fill into their role. I really like our draft picks this year and feel great about our future in the secondary (without bates).

The bottom line is bates is expendable after such a successful draft. Good luck to him in whatever path he chooses. I’d like a ring on my portfolio if I were him. One good year, a super bowl win, then cash in on FA next year. Seems like a great situation to squander. I get the not wanting to get injured, but 12 million is a lot of money—and a bigger payday in one year’s time.

AGain, his agent screwed him. I’m not so sure the agent was good for Watson, either. That contract may forever keep teams from wanting to work with him, again.

Bates will come up on the negative side sitting out the season. It will take a long while to make up for that $12M he’d miss. So much for taking care of his family, as he’s reportedly wanting to do.

Does anyone think he’ll get a significantly better contract by sitting out a year? He’ll be considered “difficult to work with” by doing so. What team will overpay for that?

(07-19-2022, 08:50 AM)Graphicguy Wrote: AGain, his agent screwed him.  I’m not so sure the agent was good for Watson, either.  That contract may forever keep teams from wanting to work with him, again.

Bates will come up on the negative side sitting out the season.  It will take a long while to make up for that $12M he’d miss.  So much for taking care of his family, as he’s reportedly wanting to do.

Does anyone think he’ll get a significantly better contract by sitting out a year?  He’ll be considered “difficult to work with” by doing so.  What team will overpay for that?

I'd venture to say when Bell sat out, he was a much bigger name than Bates is right now, and it did not work out for Bell. Jesse needs new advisors.

What are everyone's thoughts on this:

For me, the main hang up with paying Bates is his inconsistency in performance over the past couple seasons. He was great in 2020 and average/below average in 2021 and then great in the playoffs.

If it were me, I would let him play out the year on the tag. If you like what you see and you're confident in his abilities, then you tag him again and then you negotiate again and give him the deal that he wants.

Basically a "prove it year" for Bates, but by tagging him again you make sure he doesn't hit free agency so you can negotiate a deal and he doesn't jump ship.

(07-19-2022, 08:41 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Basically, the Stains screwed the whole league by guaranteeing Watson's full contract. Now all players are going to want excessive guarantees. There are no guarantees in any other job, why should there be guarantees for guys being paid millions to play a game? The league needs to reign this crap in.

You don't watch much MLB do you? 

(07-18-2022, 04:45 PM)MasonDT70 Wrote: I've never gotten the disrespect hall has gotten. He was never bad and it took 2 Achilles tears to limit his play. 

Leon Hall was one of the most underrated Bengals of all time...literally all time. He was so solid for so long. 

(07-19-2022, 09:02 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You don't watch much MLB do you? 

Not since the strike.... used to be a huge fan of the Big Red Machine. Now, outside of Votto, I couldn't name one Reds player. 

(07-19-2022, 09:14 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Not since the strike.... used to be a huge fan of the Big Red Machine. Now, outside of Votto, I couldn't name one Reds player. 

Reason I bring it up is that all contracts in baseball are guaranteed - it's been terrible for the game - especially small markets like the Reds. 

I can see giving a basic percentage of a contract as a guarantee as a signing bonus, but it's getting beyond ridiculous

(07-19-2022, 09:02 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You don't watch much MLB do you? 

Yep. Don't even need to watch any of the other 3 major sports to know their contracts are all Watson-type contracts being guaranteed. While the Stains did screw this up royally for both themselves and the league, I have no issue with NFL players "trying" to get a nice chunk of $$ up front.

(07-19-2022, 09:35 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Reason I bring it up is that all contracts in baseball are guaranteed - it's been terrible for the game - especially small markets like the Reds. 

if your contract is fully guaranteed  how much effort you gotta put in 

(07-19-2022, 08:41 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Basically, the Stains screwed the whole league by guaranteeing Watson's full contract. Now all players are going to want excessive guarantees. There are no guarantees in any other job, why should there be guarantees for guys being paid millions to play a game? The league needs to reign this crap in.

Kirk Cousins signed a fully guaranteed contract back in 2018, so Watson wasn't really the first.
But yes, the more guaranteed money that gets handed out, the more players are going to start expecting/demanding it.

Can you imagine coming out of college, then working your way up in the corporate world, then when you get ready to move into that corner office you tell them, "I'll take the position, but I want my salary guaranteed for the next 5 years regardless of if I come to work or put in any effort or not?"

(07-19-2022, 08:41 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Basically, the Stains screwed the whole league by guaranteeing Watson's full contract. Now all players are going to want excessive guarantees. There are no guarantees in any other job, why should there be guarantees for guys being paid millions to play a game? The league needs to reign this crap in.

Ditto. It is as if Haslam (net worth 4 billion) didn't just want to sign Watson, but also wanted to make it hard for owners without his deep pockets (i.e. Bengals) to compete come contract time. 

(07-19-2022, 08:53 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'd venture to say when Bell sat out, he was a much bigger name than Bates is right now, and it did not work out for Bell. Jesse needs new advisors.

Yeah..I'm betting Bates' agent isn't showing him the lack of success for those who sat out a year in contract disputes.  The NFL is littered with those kind of folks.  Bell is just one.

Personally, I'd cut off communications with Bates and go after signing OBJ with the Bates' money.  That signing would have far, far more impact.