This is a really thorough article on the struggles. One key point is that sacks are more a function of qb playing style than line. Ie Tom Brady probably wouldn't get sacked much here.

It’s not just Joe Burrow taking too many sacks. It’s a complete disconnect between Cincinnati’s rushing and passing games.

By Ben Solak Sep 23, 2022, 9:47am EDT

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/9/23/23367966/cincinnati-bengals-offense-struggles-joe-burrow-zac-taylor

(09-23-2022, 01:35 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This is a really thorough article on the struggles. One key point is that sacks are more a function of qb playing style than line. Ie Tom Brady probably wouldn't get sacked much here.

It’s not just Joe Burrow taking too many sacks. It’s a complete disconnect between Cincinnati’s rushing and passing games.

By Ben Solak  Sep 23, 2022, 9:47am EDT

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/9/23/23367966/cincinnati-bengals-offense-struggles-joe-burrow-zac-taylor

So the Bengals are trying to do a lot of running when it's a stacked box, and they're trying to do a lot of passing when it's Cover 2.


From the sound of the sound of it, it sounds like the Bengals are telegraphing their plays. Or at least being predictable based on the formation they're running out there, and they don't seem to be doing a good job changing the play calls at the line either.

Here's a very telling quote:

Quote:This split creates predictability. The Bengals run on 80 percent of their under-center snaps, which is the sixth-highest rate in the league. When running from under center, more than 80 percent of their plays are zone runs, which is the third-highest rate in the league. And when they try to run anything else, they don’t execute well.

(09-23-2022, 02:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So the Bengals are trying to do a lot of running when it's a stacked box, and they're trying to do a lot of passing when it's Cover 2.

I mentioned this last week. Burrow has at times checked IN TO runs in stacked box situations. After the Steelers when everyone was talking about his passing issues I was very vocal to say he was making a ton of bad decisions in getting us in and out of plays and I couldn't figure out why.

(09-23-2022, 02:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Here's a very telling quote:

Quote:This split creates predictability. The Bengals run on 80 percent of their under-center snaps, which is the sixth-highest rate in the league. When running from under center, more than 80 percent of their plays are zone runs, which is the third-highest rate in the league. And when they try to run anything else, they don’t execute well.

Actually that is a very deceptive quote.  Bengals run on 80% of under-center snaps is not that far off the league average which is around 70%.

Also most teams have one running style that they try to run consistently.

Finally, the best running teams often have the highest run tendencies and the best passing teams often have the highest passing tendencies.  Good team win with talent and execution not random tendencies. 

Even if you only throw 10-15% of the time out of a formation the defense still has to cover the receivers.

In other words, those of us who have said for a long time that the Bengals telegraph the play by the formation are right. We do need to do more RPOs from shotgun and more passes from under center.

(09-23-2022, 02:36 PM)Joelist Wrote: In other words, those of us who have said for a long time that the Bengals telegraph the play by the formation are right. 

No you are not.  Running 80% of the time when the league average is 70% is not "telegraphing" anything.

I thought this was particularly telling too. Whether it's play-style or what...Burrow is going to be sacked A LOT more than the average QB:

'Teams are not blitzing Burrow—he’s been blitzed on 20 percent of his dropbacks, the fifth-lowest number in the league. Teams are not soundly beating the Bengals’ offensive line—though certainly, facing T.J. Watt and Micah Parsons in consecutive weeks to open the season has presented its challenges. Simply, when Burrow is pressured (on 31 percent of his dropbacks, a league-average number), he is getting sacked off of that pressure at a league-leading rate (38 percent).


This is the same sensation the Bengals experienced last season—Burrow had a league-average number of pressured dropbacks, but a league-high number of sacks. Burrow’s high sack numbers wouldn’t go away if the 2016 Cowboys’ offensive line was playing in front of him. This is his play style. He’s a gamer, a risk taker, an I-can-make-you-miss-er. This is who he is.'

(09-23-2022, 02:19 PM)Au165 Wrote: I mentioned this last week. Burrow has at times checked IN TO runs in stacked box situations. After the Steelers when everyone was talking about his passing issues I was very vocal to say he was making a ton of bad decisions in getting us in and out of plays and I couldn't figure out why.

Yes...and people assume that because he is a good QB that he can call his own plays...but maybe he isn't good at that aspect?

(09-23-2022, 03:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I thought this was particularly telling too. Whether it's play-style or what...Burrow is going to be sacked A LOT more than the average QB:

'Teams are not blitzing Burrow—he’s been blitzed on 20 percent of his dropbacks, the fifth-lowest number in the league. Teams are not soundly beating the Bengals’ offensive line—though certainly, facing T.J. Watt and Micah Parsons in consecutive weeks to open the season has presented its challenges. Simply, when Burrow is pressured (on 31 percent of his dropbacks, a league-average number), he is getting sacked off of that pressure at a league-leading rate (38 percent).


This is the same sensation the Bengals experienced last season—Burrow had a league-average number of pressured dropbacks, but a league-high number of sacks. Burrow’s high sack numbers wouldn’t go away if the 2016 Cowboys’ offensive line was playing in front of him. This is his play style. He’s a gamer, a risk taker, an I-can-make-you-miss-er. This is who he is.'

Lots of time QBs get blamed for holding the ball too long when the problem is actually that receivers are not getting open.  But we have the best WR trio in the league.  We may not be able to push it deep every play, but SOMEBODY should be getting open short/underneath almost every play.

(09-23-2022, 02:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually that is a very deceptive quote.  Bengals run on 80% of under-center snaps is not that far off the league average which is around 70%.

Also most teams have one running style that they try to run consistently.

Finally, the best running teams often have the highest run tendencies and the best passing teams often have the highest passing tendencies.  Good team win with talent and execution not random tendencies. 

Even if you only throw 10-15% of the time out of a formation the defense still has to cover the receivers.

Yeah. I think 80% put us at like 6th or 7th most. Without that context it sounds a lot worse. These are the running problems:

'The Bengals’ struggles in the running game have a few roots. Joe Mixon is struggling to start the season—he’s averaging negative-.73 yards over expectation per rush, which means he’s getting less than what is blocked for him—and Bengals ball carriers altogether are averaging a mere 2.15 yards after contact per rush, which is tied with Atlanta for the league’s worst figure. The poor play from the backfield notwithstanding—Mixon is a good back whose production will likely improve with a larger sample size—the Bengals have a much bigger problem.


They keep running against single-high defenses.'

(09-23-2022, 02:19 PM)Au165 Wrote: I mentioned this last week. Burrow has at times checked IN TO runs in stacked box situations. After the Steelers when everyone was talking about his passing issues I was very vocal to say he was making a ton of bad decisions in getting us in and out of plays and I couldn't figure out why.

He's checking into runs with stacked boxes because he's scared to death of being sacked with the extra pressure/bodies on the line. 

(09-23-2022, 03:34 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: He's checking into runs with stacked boxes because he's scared to death of being sacked with the extra pressure/bodies on the line. 

IF that's the case...that's really bad.

Really I can't think of a reason that's good.

He either can't read a defense, is getting fooled, or like you said...doesn't want sacked.

(09-23-2022, 04:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: IF that's the case...that's really bad.

Really I can't think of a reason that's good.

He either can't read a defense, is getting fooled, or like you said...doesn't want sacked.

None of the explanations are very comforting.

(09-23-2022, 03:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Lots of time QBs get blamed for holding the ball too long when the problem is actually that receivers are not getting open.  But we have the best WR trio in the league.  We may not be able to push it deep every play, but SOMEBODY should be getting open short/underneath almost every play.

I'm not sure we have the absolute best as there are several teams that have 3 very very good WR's but, regardless, there are times, actually many times, that QB's have to "throw open" the receiver which is far different than throwing to an open WR. I think we can all agree that JB does/has held onto the ball too long on several occasions in his career.

Some of that is due to the Bengals running lots of vertical routes which takes more time. Maybe he's simply not throwing open his receivers on some of the mid-range throws more often than not. You can do that with an elite QB far more at the college level but not here where windows close quicker. Either way, there's a trickle-down affect that happens when you have 11 guys either not working together or sometimes all it takes is one guy.

(09-23-2022, 04:33 PM)higgy100 Wrote: I'm not sure we have the absolute best as there are several teams that have 3 very very good WR's but, regardless, there are times, actually many times, that QB's have to "throw open" the receiver which is far different than throwing to an open WR. I think we can all agree that JB does/has held onto the ball too long on several occasions in his career.

Some of that is due to the Bengals running lots of vertical routes which takes more time. Maybe he's simply not throwing open his receivers on some of the mid-range throws more often than not. You can do that with an elite QB far more at the college level but not here where windows close quicker. Either way, there's a trickle-down affect that happens when you have 11 guys either not working together or sometimes all it takes is one guy.

Quite frankly, his pocket presence looks to be regressing too. There were a couple times he ran right into sacks. You watch Allen or Mahommes and when a rusher comes free, they make a subtle move to evade it.

Hopefully Burrow gets his mojo back.

In the 1st 2 games, he looked like the QB on Madden when you hit the wrong button and can't throw any more and can only run.

I’m at the point where i don’t care anymore


Everyone knows the line is the problem.



Play better and let us judge this team for real

The line has been so bad you can’t even get a idea of where we’re at as a team yet

I'm beginning to think people want Burrow to play like Dalton, get rid of the ball on his 1st read. This is not Joe, how bout give him some time to throw. And Brady would never play with a line this bad. He hasn't had a line as bad as the Bengals......ever. Maybe Joe should just start getting intentional grounding every other play.

Remember when folks said "BS" When some of the more even-keeled asserted:

"We could get to the Superbowl and folks would still complain"

(09-23-2022, 05:26 PM)Housh Wrote: I’m at the point where i don’t care anymore


Everyone knows the line is the problem.



Play better and let us judge this team for real

The line has been so bad you can’t even get a idea of where we’re at as a team yet

Right there with ya.

It's not the only problem but it's the MAIN problem.

I just tired of hearing people focusing on the outlier issues as if it is the fix.

Get the line playing right and take it from there.

Its not just about "poor Joe" and him getting sacked.  This run game is atrocious!