With Dalton out we are going to see how much he actually helps the offensive line. It worries me because I have always thought our offensive line looks a lot better than what it is because of Dalton. I still think we have a good offensive line, but I don't know if it will even look like a top 10 OL anymore. We can only wait and find out, but I think people are overlooking this a little too much.

They gave up 3 sacks with McCarron in..

If we want McCarron to succeed... We will absolutely NEED to protect him and keep him clean just like we did w/ Dalton (most of the time).

We still have a top line. The main thing Dalton did was his quick release. Something that McCarron is going to have to work on. Timing is everything in this league and McCarron show some struggles with it early on. A full week of practice is certainly going to help him though.

(12-15-2015, 04:09 PM)milksheikh Wrote: They gave up 3 sacks with McCarron in..

If we want McCarron to succeed... We will absolutely NEED to protect him and keep him clean just like we did w/ Dalton (most of the time).

They also gave up 3 sacks in the previous game against the Steelers with Dalton in....

People forget besides the quick release Dalton is def upper tier mobile.

McCarron looked like a statue back there.
Our line is good but we will def be missing the take off for a first down element we have enjoyed all year.

(12-15-2015, 04:11 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: People forget besides the quick release Dalton is def upper tier mobile.

McCarron looked like a statue back there.
Our line is good but we will def be missing the take off for a first down element we have enjoyed all year.

McCarron is a pure pocket passer. He needs to set his feet and step into his throws. He's not going to do well in bootleg throws nor throw on the run. It takes out an element in Hue's gameplan for sure, but it's just a few adjustments that need to be made.

We have Hill and Gio for such a reason. We hear them being talked up as one of the best in the league, now we have to ride them into the playoffs.

(12-15-2015, 04:10 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: They also gave up 3 sacks in the previous game against the Steelers with Dalton in....

Pretty sure 2 of them were coverage sacks that week. I havent rewatched this game yet but I think at least one was holding the ball too long

(12-15-2015, 04:14 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Pretty sure 2 of them were coverage sacks that week. I havent rewatched this game yet but I think at least one was holding the ball too long

I was at the game so I couldn't tell you. It's a different view point at the game rather than on TV

(12-15-2015, 04:16 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I was at the game so I couldn't tell you. It's a different view point at the game rather than on TV

Very much so

(12-15-2015, 04:02 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: With Dalton out we are going to see how much he actually helps the offensive line. It worries me because I have always thought our offensive line looks a lot better than what it is because of Dalton. I still think we have a good offensive line, but I don't know if it will even look like a top 10 OL anymore. We can only wait and find out, but I think people are overlooking this a little too much.

No doubt Dalton makes our OL look much better than they are due to his quick release.

McCarron better get rid of it quick or he'll be next on the training table.

Max Protect and make our receivers get some separation

And run the darn ball

If our offensive line is as great as everyone says it is, then they will go out and maul a 49er defense who is not very good against the run and thereby take the pressure off of McCarron to throw. Why couldn't they go out and have a game where the offense runs for 200 yards and passes for 150+?

(Ok, because Hue will not call enough run plays. I got it.)

Bengals are 3rd in the league in yards per pass, but 23rd in pass attempts.

Bengals are 15th in yards per rush, but 9th in rush attempts.

And people still want to bash Hue for not running the ball more????????

(12-15-2015, 05:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals are 3rd in the league in yards per pass, but 23rd in pass attempts.

Bengals are 15th in yards per rush, but 9th in rush attempts.

And people still want to bash Hue for not running the ball more????????

Because of when those plays are called, not how many.

Wolf always brings up a great point, how often has Hue tried to force a pass to Fisher this year inside the 10? 5?
The answer is too many and it's basically a punted down. 

People want more runs inside the 10. Fewer pass attempts to Fisher. 
The screen to Gio is another good example. No need for that there. Just run it in that situation. 

(12-15-2015, 06:00 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Because of when those plays are called, not how many.

Wolf always brings up a great point, how often has Hue tried to force a pass to Fisher this year inside the 10? 5?
The answer is too many and it's basically a punted down. 

People want more runs inside the 10. Fewer pass attempts to Fisher. 
The screen to Gio is another good example. No need for that there. Just run it in that situation. 

Here is the problem with that plan.  Through 12 games the Bengals have had first down inside the 10 yard line 25 times.  We have ran the ball 19 of those 25 times, but only have 3 runs longer then 2 yards (and one of those 3 was a 5 yards run by Dalton against the Cardinals).  Two of the runs that went for 2 yards or less were tds (Hill against the Raiders and Cards) but mostly we were not very effective running the ball in that situation.  Throwing the ball we were 3-6 for 2 tds.

We have had 18 second downs inside the 10, and here is where we throw the ball more.  We were 6-11 for 5 tds. We ran the ball 7 times, but only 4 of those gained more than 2 yards (again one of them was a 5 yards td run by Dalton).

We have had 9 third downs inside the 10.  We ran the ball 3 times with Dalton scoring 2 tds and Hill getting stuffed once for a 3 yard loss.

So the next time you hear someone say "No need to throw the ball.  Just run it in." remind then that out of 24 carries by our RBs inside the 10 we only have 5 that gained more than 2 yards and 5 that went for zero or a loss of yardage.

The OL will have to adjust to a different QB mechanics wise for sure. Remember not only has Andy shown mobility and escapability but both this year and over his career the only faster release time in the NFL is Tom Brady. That did affect blocking as the linemen knew they did not have to hold their blocks as long.

I'm thinking that Hue will need to do some designed rollouts to help give time and also the line has to step it up and hold blocks that extra second or two.

(12-15-2015, 06:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here is the problem with that plan.  Through 12 games the Bengals have had first down inside the 10 yard line 25 times.  We have ran the ball 19 of those 25 times, but only have 3 runs longer then 2 yards (and one of those 3 was a 5 yards run by Dalton against the Cardinals).  Two of the runs that went for 2 yards or less were tds (Hill against the Raiders and Cards) but mostly we were not very effective running the ball in that situation.  Throwing the ball we were 3-6 for 2 tds.

We have had 18 second downs inside the 10, and here is where we throw the ball more.  We were 6-11 for 5 tds. We ran the ball 7 times, but only 4 of those gained more than 2 yards (again one of them was a 5 yards td run by Dalton).

We have had 9 third downs inside the 10.  We ran the ball 3 times with Dalton scoring 2 tds and Hill getting stuffed once for a 3 yard loss.

So the next time you hear someone say "No need to throw the ball.  Just run it in." remind then that out of 24 carries by our RBs inside the 10 we only have 5 that gained more than 2 yards and 5 that went for zero or a loss of yardage.

The Bengals are tied for 2nd with most rushing touchdowns within the 10 yard line (Carolina Panthers also have 11)

Hill also scored all 8 of his touchdowns within the 10 yard line.
Dalton scored 3 of those touchdowns within the 10 yard line as well.

Hill is tied for the most rushing touchdowns within the 10 yard line (DeAngelo Williams is also tied with 8).

So for a team that struggled by getting into the end zone by running it, we have someone who is tied for leading the league in rushing TDs within the 10 yard line. And an added 3 more touchdowns thanks to Andy Dalton.

That's 11 rushing touchdowns within the 10 yard line. 19 teams have less than 11 rushing touchdowns total. 2 more teams have 11 rushing touchdowns.

So, going by your numbers, 11 of our 24 carries inside the 10 have gone for touchdowns. Almost 50% of our runs have gone for touchdowns inside the 10.

We're not bad at all. We're one of the best.

So next time someone says we should "Just run it in", remember, there's close to a 50% chance we will.

(12-16-2015, 02:36 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: The Bengals are tied for 2nd with most rushing touchdowns within the 10 yard line (Carolina Panthers also have 11)

Hill also scored all 8 of his touchdowns within the 10 yard line.
Dalton scored 3 of those touchdowns within the 10 yard line as well.

Hill is tied for the most rushing touchdowns within the 10 yard line (DeAngelo Williams is also tied with 8).

So for a team that struggled by getting into the end zone by running it, we have someone who is tied for leading the league in rushing TDs within the 10 yard line. And an added 3 more touchdowns thanks to Andy Dalton.

That's 11 rushing touchdowns within the 10 yard line. 19 teams have less than 11 rushing touchdowns total. 2 more teams have 11 rushing touchdowns.

So, going by your numbers, 11 of our 24 carries inside the 10 have gone for touchdowns. Almost 50% of our runs have gone for touchdowns inside the 10.

We're not bad at all. We're one of the best.

So next time someone says we should "Just run it in", remember, there's close to a 50% chance we will.

Which makes those awful fades to Fisher that much worse

(12-15-2015, 04:09 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: We still have a top line. The main thing Dalton did was his quick release. Something that McCarron is going to have to work on. Timing is everything in this league and McCarron show some struggles with it early on. A full week of practice is certainly going to help him though.

A QB can't have a quick release without the proper great read. Dalton does both, he reads the open receiver quickly and has the quick release. Let's hope AJ can play with the lead and is not forced to throw it 50 times, if so I think he and the OL will do just fine.

(12-16-2015, 01:42 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Which makes those awful fades to Fisher that much worse

Bengals have only attempted ONE pass to Fisher when inside the 10 yard line.