(12-15-2015, 12:44 PM)Se ky bengal Wrote: Here's the whole report on Dalton 

Strengths: 

[*]Good arm strength
[*]Quick release
[*]Accurate thrower
[*]Smart; protects the football
[*]Mobile with scrambling ability
[*]Intelligent and tough
[*]Proven leader, passion for the game
[*]Winner at collegiate level
[*]Durable, experienced 4-year starter 

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2011adalton_greg.php#pTGaoHbaf1laYTQ1.99


[*]Height is not idea
[*]Lacks elite characteristics
[*]Product of spread offense
[*]Release point needs to be adjusted
[*]Not many games against top competition
[*]Footwork needs improvement 

Summary: Andy Dalton had a terrific collegiate career that included helping TCU not only to a BCS bowl (Rose) win, but in the bigger picture, played a part in the program joining the "Big Six" fraternity as a future member of the Big East. He put up solid if not spectacular statistics most of his career, really peaking as a senior with by far his best season on paper. More importantly he kept improving - and winning. 

Of course, most of that came in the Mountain West. Against "Big Six" competition, his record was 7-3, although a few of those teams were lesser opponents. He went 3-3 against Utah and Boise State. Still, he saved his best for last in the victory over Wisconsin which really opened eyes. 

Dalton has the toughness to be successful, but will have to overcome his lack of height and learn the pro style offense. 

Player Comparison: Chase Daniel. I have seen Dalton compared to Drew Brees, but at this point, a more realistic comparison is to another player on the New Orleans depth chart. Like Daniel, Dalton lacks ideal height and arm strength, but is an accurate passer. Both played in a shotgun offense at the collegiate level. Daniel was not drafted, but he lacked the "it" factor and perhaps some of that was absorbing losses against stiffer competition in the Big XII. 

Clearly Dalton is going to be drafted, and fairly early. Projecting him to the pros, however, I see a slightly better Chase Daniel

(12-15-2015, 12:51 PM)Se ky bengal Wrote: [*]

AJM 

[*]Limits mistakes 
[*]Makes good decisions 
[*]Quality game-manager 
[*]Field vision 
[*]Ball security 
[*]Distributes the ball to a variety of weapons 
[*]Good on touch passes 
[*]Basis for good footwork 
[*]Accurate 
[*]Improved throughout college 
[*]Intelligent 
[*]Hard worker 
[*]3-year starter 
[*]Leader 
[*]Good teammate 
[*]Experienced and successful against elite college programs

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2014amccarron.php#9ozps1C42SZuqgZY.99

    Lacks arm strength *this didn't copy 

[*]for a vertical offense 
[*]Doesn't throw into tight windows 
[*]Needs to improve anticipation 
[*]Can get rattled by pass rush 
[*]Little mobility 
[*]Not a running threat 
[*]Not a play-maker 


Summary: McCarron was a steady presence in the Alabama offense over the past three seasons and helped guide the Crimson Tide to two national championships. With a great defense and running game, Alabama didn't have McCarron throw the ball that often, and when he did he had a lot of wide-open receivers, but the Crimson Tide didn't need McCarron to be a play-maker in order to win. McCarron was a good game-manager and was more capable than John Parker Wilson or Greg McElroy. 

McCarron won the starting quarterback job as a sophomore after McElroy moved on to the NFL. McCarron had the luxury of a tremendous running game and defense to carry Alabama to a National Championship in 2011. He completed 67 percent of his passes for 2,634 yards with 16 touchdowns and five interceptions for the year.  

Alabama repeated as National Champions the next season. Once again, McCarron had the support of a great running game, and one of the best offensive lines in college football history. The junior completed 67 percent of his passes for 2,933 yards with 30 touchdowns and three interceptions. He had great opportunities to throw the ball with defenses focused on stopping the Crimson Tide's rushing attack. 

McCarron generally played well in 2013 even though his supporting cast wasn't as good as the previous two seasons. The senior completed 67 percent of his passes for 3,063 yards with 28 touchdowns and seven interceptions. His performances versus Virginia Tech and Ole Miss in 2013 were underwhelming. 

On the flip side, he played extremely well against Texas A&M to win a shootout at Kyle Field. To end his collegiate career, McCarron struggled against Oklahoma. He was rattled by the Sooners' pass-rushers and had three turnovers. It illustrated the concern that McCarron's superb supporting cast was masking some weaknesses in his game during the past three years. McCarron rarely ever saw a steady pass rush as his tremendous offensive line constantly kept clean pockets for him.

McCarron doesn't have a very strong arm for the NFL level and doesn't fit a lot of throws into tight windows. His anticipation could be better as well. It is clear that Alabama coached McCarron to be a good game-manager and not turn the ball over. He was very good at avoiding interceptions, but he often had wide-open receivers; a luxury that won't be available in the NFL. McCarron was a reliable game-manager, but he isn't a play-maker who can produce points on his own ability to beat a defense. 

McCarron doesn't have an above-average arm or mobility. For the pros, he looks like a solid backup who could function well as a game-manager for a team that is based around a tough defense and running game. McCarron could help a team win in that situation and has the potential to be a quarterback similar to Trent Dilfer with the 2000 Ravens. 

That being said, some teams view McCarron more favorably. WalterFootball.com knows one quarterback-needy team picking in the top 10 that has McCarron rated ahead of Teddy Bridgewater. McCarron looks like a second-day pick for the 2014 NFL Draft. 

 

[*]

Player Comparison: Brodie Croyle. Sources told me they didn't see a real difference between McCarron and Croyle. In fact, they felt that Croyle has a stronger arm than McCarron. Since entering the NFL as a third-round pick of the Chiefs, Croyle has been a backup quarterback. McCarron looks like he could be a solid backup and game-manager to finish games if a starter is injured or help as a starter in a limited amount of time. 
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2014amccarron.php#Tu84XYb8c6VgsqTQ.99

[*][*]

If I were playing a Madden dynasty game and had to pick one of these QBs to draft out of the combine... based on this I'd pick Mccarron. 


I know these guys are frequently wrong though. 

(12-16-2015, 05:22 AM)BayouBengal Wrote: [*]

If I were playing a Madden dynasty game and had to pick one of these QBs to draft out of the combine... based on this I'd pick Mccarron. 


I know these guys are frequently wrong though. 

[*]

Then you'd miss out on the guy who took a previously 4-12 team to the playoffs with young/poor talent around him in his rookie year, and is 3rd in the NFL in QB Rating in his 5th year. Instead you'd get the guy who spent his rookie season on the non-football injury list and in his first major game experience, gave the opposing team as many points as he scored. Probably should hold off on sending your resume to any open GM spots this offseason.

(12-16-2015, 06:52 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [*]

Then you'd miss out on the guy who took a previously 4-12 team to the playoffs with young/poor talent around him in his rookie year, and is 3rd in the NFL in QB Rating in his 5th year. Instead you'd get the guy who spent his rookie season on the non-football injury list and in his first major game experience, gave the opposing team as many points as he scored. Probably should hold off on sending your resume to any open GM spots this offseason.

[*]

Butthurt much?


I was making a point. You like Andy so much you can't see it but the scouts liked AJM more. No duh Andy's better right now... he had 5 years to get better, but the future is bright for AJ and the Bengals. 

(12-16-2015, 05:22 AM)BayouBengal Wrote: [*]

If I were playing a Madden dynasty game and had to pick one of these QBs to draft out of the combine... based on this I'd pick Mccarron. 


I know these guys are frequently wrong though. 

[*]

The guy who scouted Dalton only scouted 3 QBs his entire time writing for that site. They were Gabbert, Dalton, and Kaepernick. He never gave a player comparison for Kaepernick.

And yeah they are usually wrong with quarterbacks. They said Tajh Boyd would be Russell Wilson.

Granted, they have been getting better though as they've gotten rid of some people.

(12-17-2015, 03:40 AM)BayouBengal Wrote: [*]

Butthurt much?


I was making a point. You like Andy so much you can't see it but the scouts liked AJM more. No duh Andy's better right now... he had 5 years to get better, but the future is bright for AJ and the Bengals. 

[*]

How did you conclude the scouts liked AJM more from that?  They called him a backup.

Here's an interesting comment this week from fantasyfootballmetrics.com (pretty cool site by the way if you like really deep statistical analysis of stuff):

"Through 12 games (ignore this game), Andy Dalton averaged 1.4 completions per game of his passes that traveled 20+ yards downfield this season. He has completed 38.0% of his 20+ yard throws (50 attempts) with 0.5 TD/0.3 INT per game on those throws.

For context, Aaron Rodgers (who I picked randomly) has completed only 1.0 passes per game in 2015 on his throws of 20+ yards downfield. He’s completing only 29.5% of his 44 throws traveling 20+ yards with 0.3 TD/0.0 INT per game.

It’s not easy for QBs to complete passes traveling 20+ yards downfield.

Nick Foles: 1.1 completions and 0.3 TD/0.3 INT per game with a 31.7% completion percentage.

Jameis Winston: 0.8 completions and 0.2 TD/0.1 INT per games with a 24.3% completion percentage.

Brock Osweiler, sudden starter: 0.8 completions and 0.0 TD/0.0 INT per game with a 25.0% completion percentage.

Are you comfortable with these deep throw numbers? Make sure you browse back through them before proceeding. Seriously.

Most NFL quarterbacks fall in the range of random QB samples I provided above. It’s not easy to complete these deeper passes. Between play calling, O-Line issues, QB talents and/or fears, WR talent, etc.—you don’t see a ton of passes traveling 20+ yards landing successfully to intended receivers. The BEST QBs in the NFL hit about an average of two of them per game with 30–40% completion percentage.

In this game, coming off the bench cold, playing only about 80% of the game, with most all of his deep throws coming with the game in reach (down by two scores or less with plenty of time) A.J. McCarron completed an astonishing four passes of 20+ yards with a 57.1% completion percentage along with 1 TD/1 INT. McCarron completed more 20+ yards downfield passes in three quarters than Brock Osweiler has in all of 2015."

(12-17-2015, 03:40 AM)BayouBengal Wrote: [*]

Butthurt much?


I was making a point. You like Andy so much you can't see it but the scouts liked AJM more. No duh Andy's better right now... he had 5 years to get better, but the future is bright for AJ and the Bengals. 

[*]

There's nothing to be butt hurt about. On one hand, we have one of the NFL's best QB's, who has led the team to 5 consecutive playoff trips, made 3 pro bowls, 2 player of the month awards and set numerous franchise records including single season yards, TD's and passer rating.

On the other hand, we have an unproven 5th round draft choice who has never been projected to be anything more than a solid backup.

I like McCarron, but the fact that some are legitimately thinking he could replace Dalton is a joke. It'd be like Cards fans thinking Ryan Lindley could replace Palmer last year. 

(12-17-2015, 03:40 AM)BayouBengal Wrote: [*]

Butthurt much?


I was making a point. You like Andy so much you can't see it but the scouts liked AJM more. No duh Andy's better right now... he had 5 years to get better, but the future is bright for AJ and the Bengals. 

where does your blind hatred for the best QB this frachise has had in the past 2 decades come from?

Chris Crocker did a film session for the enquirer on McCarron's game, and Crock rated him "a C- or D+". Said that Hue helped him a ton, yet McCarron missed lots of very easy throws.

Let the hate on Crocker begin.

(12-18-2015, 03:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Chris Crocker did a film session for the enquirer on McCarron's game, and Crock rated him "a C- or D+". Said that Hue helped him a ton, yet McCarron missed lots of very easy throws.

Let the hate on Crocker begin.

Hell I said that and got blasted and everyone *loves* me. 
Crocker is toast. 

(12-18-2015, 03:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Chris Crocker did a film session for the enquirer on McCarron's game, and Crock rated him "a C- or D+". Said that Hue helped him a ton, yet McCarron missed lots of very easy throws.

Let the hate on Crocker begin.

Kurt Warner said about the same thing.

(12-18-2015, 03:13 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: where does your blind hatred for the best QB this frachise has had in the past 2 decades come from?

I don't think he has blind hatred for Palmer.

(12-18-2015, 03:17 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Hell I said that and got blasted and everyone *loves* me. 
Crocker is toast. 

McCarron has no arm velocity, did nothing in college besides ride the best team in the nation, and even in the Pitt game was always throwing balls high. If he becomes a successful starter anywhere I will eat my dress shoes

What happens when McCarron gets hurt? Is it Sanu or Ponder?

(12-18-2015, 06:05 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: I don't think he has blind hatred for Palmer.

By what metric was Palmer better than Dalton?

Wins? Advantage Dalton.
Stats? Advantage Dalton.
Accolades? Advantage Dalton.
Playoff success? Tied.

(12-18-2015, 08:32 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: What happens when McCarron gets hurt? Is it Sanu or Ponder?

Wenning. Sanu is the absolute worse case scenario.

(12-19-2015, 02:15 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: By what metric was Palmer better than Dalton?

Wins? Advantage Dalton.
Stats? Advantage Dalton.
Accolades? Advantage Dalton.
Playoff success? Tied.

Hmmm...you really don't believe that arguement do you? Lol.
We can name a ton of Great QB's who paved the way for lesser 
talent to benefit from. Dalton has taken advantage of his situation. Good for him,
he is not a QB that elevates the talent around him. He falters under the big stage and against top teams. He has more wins, stats, and accolades thus far than Newton too...guess he is better than Cam also? 

The stats that some around here are so impressed with are being surpassed rather quickly 
by the young QB's who also started from day one. Dalton, Manning, and Flacco are the only QB's to start thier first 81 games. That is a great testament to their ability to stay in the game. Tough, smart, and game savvy describes all three of them. Those "in their first 5 year" stats are not that impressive because ALL the other QB's did not play as many games. You know why no one here talks about those "in their first year", "2nd year", "3rd year" and "4th year stats"anymore...because most of them now belong to guys named Wilson, Luck, Kaepernick and Tannehill. Soon to belong to guys named Carr, Mariota and Winston. The game has changed and the stats are not really comps. For instance when Palmer broke the franchise record for TD's he was in the Top of the league for TD passes. When Dalton did it he was not in the top 12. See how that works?
 
Palmer can and has changed the culture of teams...the Bengals included. This team had not been in the playoffs for 15 years prior to Palmer. When Dalton got here they had been in the Playoffs Two out of 5 years. Winning the division twice and sweeping it once. Huge difference...but you know this.

If Dalton can get his job back then maybe he can continue on with this great season he was having. He was having a great season. I am one who believes AJM will have very comparable stats to Dalton's the rest of this year...that's because this team does not need a great QB. 

How many real NFL talent evaluators would say that Dalton is comparable to Palmer? None.
Granted they are diffent ages so if that is going to frame your arguement that is the strongest stance to a weak point. If it is only age then you would say the same about Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Ken Anderson, Boomer and any other previous QB who no longer youth on thier side. Even at 36 Palmer is out playing Dalton. He can do things Dalton can not...period. Prime to prime comparisons are not even a remote question. 

Cue the "quitter" and "pre-Madonna" arguments...lol

(12-14-2015, 12:41 AM)whodey4life84 Wrote: [img][/img]
Just saying that everyone needs to relax. McCarron will fill in just fine for Dalton. When we drafted McCarron I went and watched 2 seasons of games and all I am going to say is dont be surprised if he gets us that elusive playoff win this year. People should be more concerned about the health of our secondary. Hate now, but I'll be sure to visit this thread at the end of the season. 

Dalton will be ready by the postseason.  Macarron's job is to get us all the way there.  I doubt he'll be playing in the playoffs.  If he does really well, he could be used in a  trade down the line to get us draft picks for the future.  

(12-20-2015, 03:16 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Hmmm...you really don't believe that arguement do you? Lol.
We can name a ton of Great QB's who paved the way for lesser 
talent to benefit from. Dalton has taken advantage of his situation. Good for him,
he is not a QB that elevates the talent around him. He falters under the big stage and against top teams. He has more wins, stats, and accolades thus far than Newton too...guess he is better than Cam also? 

The stats that some around here are so impressed with are being surpassed rather quickly 
by the young QB's who also started from day one. Dalton, Manning, and Flacco are the only QB's to start thier first 81 games. That is a great testament to their ability to stay in the game. Tough, smart, and game savvy describes all three of them. Those "in their first 5 year" stats are not that impressive because ALL the other QB's did not play as many games. You know why no one here talks about those "in their first year", "2nd year", "3rd year" and "4th year stats"anymore...because most of them now belong to guys named Wilson, Luck, Kaepernick and Tannehill. Soon to belong to guys named Carr, Mariota and Winston. The game has changed and the stats are not really comps. For instance when Palmer broke the franchise record for TD's he was in the Top of the league for TD passes. When Dalton did it he was not in the top 12. See how that works?
 
Palmer can and has changed the culture of teams...the Bengals included. This team had not been in the playoffs for 15 years prior to Palmer. When Dalton got here they had been in the Playoffs Two out of 5 years. Winning the division twice and sweeping it once. Huge difference...but you know this.

If Dalton can get his job back then maybe he can continue on with this great season he was having. He was having a great season. I am one who believes AJM will have very comparable stats to Dalton's the rest of this year...that's because this team does not need a great QB. 

How many real NFL talent evaluators would say that Dalton is comparable to Palmer? None.
Granted they are diffent ages so if that is going to frame your arguement that is the strongest stance to a weak point. If it is only age then you would say the same about Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Ken Anderson, Boomer and any other previous QB who no longer youth on thier side. Even at 36 Palmer is out playing Dalton. He can do things Dalton can not...period. Prime to prime comparisons are not even a remote question. 

Cue the "quitter" and "pre-Madonna" arguments...lol

Dalton has never had a losing season here.  Can't say that for Palmer.  Palmer also has no playoff wins, but nobody brings that up.