(02-19-2023, 12:48 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: When Pacheco was at Rutgers he averaged 4.3 yards. Why? Because he had crap lines that were always over matched. He may not be a 7th rounder but he didn’t just out of nowhere become so good. Put behind an average NFL line and he becomes an average back.

He had crap lines and STILL managed 4.3 YPC.  He has a solid line at KC, and plays a lot of empty boxes, but people know he is a furious runner.  Teams miss on RBs all the time.  

(02-18-2023, 03:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great post and thread Samhain. Completely agree, if we can get the running game elite no team can beat us. This is why we need
to add at least a couple OT's to the team, one in FA like a Garrett Bolles and one in the Draft like Darnell Wright for insurance in case
La'el and Jonah aren't either healthy or up to par. True that when La'el was finally getting healthy this Offense started to look insane
with a running game.

Mixon had a few big games running the ball, but blitz pickup is essential and his contract takes up too much dough IMO.

Bring back Perine, cut Mixon, draft a RB that can pick up the blitz like McKinnon and run like a mad man like Pacheco...

Look out if we do all this.

This is is 100% true.  An NFL team needs 3 tackles -- LT (one of the most important positions on the field), RT, and a competent backup swing T.  How many tackles do we have now?  Zero.  

Carman did fine against quality competition, but that's a very small sample size.  Jonah is a question mark due to injuries to both knees, and maybe his best days are behind him.  LC, who knows?

I think that at worst, Carman can be a serviceable backup.  Jonah may come back from surgery worth his 12 million.  Between them, I'll say that maybe we have one competent tackle.  Bolles or McGlinchey in FA, and hope that the third tackle is there when we draft.

(02-17-2023, 11:06 PM)samhain Wrote: Bottom line:  A run game and a willingness to use it will fix just about every problem this offense has.  Recall the Buffalo playoff game.  The Bengals ran wild and the Bills never stood a chance.  

I touched on this in another thread, but I'll say it again, as the message is the same as the one that you delivered.  The ability to establish the run against an opponent, no matter how vaunted and deadly your passing game may be, forces the opposition to change their plan.  It gives your offensive line an opportunity to be aggressive and establish a little decorum on how the trenches are going to operate that day.  Making the defense work to stop the run gives the OL a big advantage in pass protection as well, as defenders must always beware of the run, and be forced to play "straight up" and forego using second or third pass rushing moves.

Establishing the run not only gives the OL an advantage for the day, it allows the offensive coordinator to call for surprise plays.  Plays that might have been less likely to be succeed when the defensive front feels like they are controlling the tempo by simply rushing hard every down with the OL on it's heels.

(02-20-2023, 07:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I touched on this in another thread, but I'll say it again, as the message is the same as the one that you delivered.  The ability to establish the run against an opponent, no matter how vaunted and deadly your passing game may be, forces the opposition to change their plan.  It gives your offensive line an opportunity to be aggressive and establish a little decorum on how the trenches are going to operate that day.  Making the defense work to stop the run gives the OL a big advantage in pass protection as well, as defenders must always beware of the run, and be forced to play "straight up" and forego using second or third pass rushing moves.

Establishing the run not only gives the OL an advantage for the day, it allows the offensive coordinator to call for surprise plays.  Plays that might have been less likely to be succeed when the defensive front feels like they are controlling the tempo by simply rushing hard every down with the OL on it's heels.

Yep

I really love Pacheco's energy on the field. I don't hate Mixon at all... I love his positivity and contribution. But he doesn't really offer anything "next level" and I think that's what we need to make the run game complete. Every time I watched Pacheco play this past season, I thought to myself how
I wish we had that guy on our team. Maybe I've forgotten someone, but it just doesn't feel like we've EVER had a RB like that. How amazing would this offense be if we did?

(02-17-2023, 11:06 PM)samhain Wrote: Mahomes is getting a lot of run this week, perhaps rightly so.  I think it's a bit exaggerated, but whatever.

One particular thing I noticed in the second half of that game, ie the major momentum shift: KC's run game.  

Pacheco was running like his life depended on it, and KC kept giving him the ball.  The Eagles' mighty pass rush was neutralized, and there was no answer for it.  

People can talk about refs (I did) and Mahomes being a Marvel movie character all they want, but the run game and KC actually deciding to utilize it turned that game.  KC always had the pieces to run successfully, they just had little interest in doing it consistently.  When they did, it was a problem.

Go back to the Bengals' regular season tilt vs KC.  The team was at their peak IMO.  Mixon was out.  Perine was running angry, and Cappa/Collins were healthy.  Collins gets some shit here. but when those two were blocking down on run plays, it added a dimension that they missed badly when Collins was lost in Foxboro.They could actually win physical battles at the line of scrimmage.  

Bottom line:  A run game and a willingness to use it will fix just about every problem this offense has.  Recall the Buffalo playoff game.  The Bengals ran wild and the Bills never stood a chance.  This time it was Mixon getting the carries.  

IMO this is the key to the offseason and the final piece of the puzzle when it comes to this team winning a title.  Burrow and the receivers with a consistent run threat would be an absolute juggernaut.  The goal this offseason should be to facilitate that in every way possible.

Couple things on this...

Pass rush was neuteralized when the Bengals played the Bills because of the snow. Same thing happened to the Eagles in the Super Bowl because of the shitty field. KC took advantage of it. I have no idea why the Eagles didn't run the ball more in that game. 

Also, KC has a REALLY good offensive line. The Bengals had an average offensive line for about 5 games this year. Then it all went to shit. 

People think drafting a running back is going to magically fix the run game. It all starts with the OL. You fix that then the run game will come back. There's a reason we don't run the ball a ton - the coaches know we just don't have the personel to do it. 

(02-21-2023, 10:51 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: People think drafting a running back is going to magically fix the run game. It all starts with the OL. You fix that then the run game will come back. There's a reason we don't run the ball a ton - the coaches know we just don't have the personnel to do it. 

I'm not sure that anyone is suggesting that cutting Mixon and drafting a new RB is going to "fix" the rushing game.  I believe what some of us are saying is that we could likely get the same production from the position at a fraction of the cost of keeping Mixon.

(02-18-2023, 09:26 AM)michaelsean Wrote: There is no doubt the run game in the 2nd half  won the Super Bowl.

Well Mahomes accounted for around 1/3:of those yards in 2nd half, running game was effective but without Mahomes making plays they lose SB .. 

(02-21-2023, 09:55 AM)whodeyblood Wrote: I really love Pacheco's energy on the field. I don't hate Mixon at all... I love his positivity and contribution. But he doesn't really offer anything "next level" and I think that's what we need to make the run game complete. Every time I watched Pacheco play this past season, I thought to myself how
I wish we had that guy on our team. Maybe I've forgotten someone, but it just doesn't feel like we've EVER had a RB like that. How amazing would this offense be if we did?

Pacheco's only season in the NFL was spent playing behind three Pro Bowl linemen.

How many has Joe Mixon played behind in his six year career? Zero.

It's easy to look good and "play with fire" when you're not making your first cut to avoid a tackler while you're still behind the line of scrimmage.