This was brought up on Sirius and Pat Kirwan scoffed at it. The question he asked was "who assigned the grades?"

(03-03-2023, 11:14 AM)bfine32 Wrote: This was brought up on Sirius and Pat Kirwan scoffed at it. The question he asked was "who assigned the grades?"

The players from each team, and they only graded the teams they play for. I don't think "Who assigned the grades?" is an applicable argument. Meanwhile, in Cincinnati, the coaches are speaking to their #1 WR and asking him how he feels, and he says he thinks he needs another week. The response is, "Ok, Irwin, you're up" However the player feels is taken into consideration in health decisions with evidently zero pressure. 

(03-03-2023, 11:14 AM)bfine32 Wrote: This was brought up on Sirius and Pat Kirwan scoffed at it. The question he asked was "who assigned the grades?"

I'll offer up disgruntled players who knew their release was impending.

(03-03-2023, 11:28 AM)Sled21 Wrote: The players from each team, and they only graded the teams they play for. I don't think "Who assigned the grades?" is an applicable argument. Meanwhile, in Cincinnati, the coaches are speaking to their #1 WR and asking him how he feels, and he says he thinks he needs another week. The response is, "Ok, Irwin, you're up" However the player feels is taken into consideration in health decisions with evidently zero pressure. 

As I understand it, the players merely answered a survey, they didn't assign a grade. PK's question was who assigned the grades. 

(03-03-2023, 11:47 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I'll offer up disgruntled players who knew their release was impending.

I doubt the survey was skewed; the question arose about who decides if a number of players answer "The Hot Tub could be bigger". Who says that's an F. 

I'd assert it's no different than any "Climate Survey" done for any business. No grades, just answer data collected. 

(03-03-2023, 12:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I understand it, the players merely answered a survey, they didn't assign a grade. PK's question was who assigned the grades. 

Ah, ok that makes sense.

Maybe someone said this in a previous post here (haven’t read them all), but a couple of the items are probably not the responsibility of the team. Fixing the showers and toilets probably falls on the county. Same with charging stations in the lockers. Could the team easily fix these items? Sure, but I’d bet Mike Brown would never do it if the lease could be interpreted in my way that the county is responsible.


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(03-04-2023, 03:32 PM)bjf123 Wrote: Maybe someone said this in a previous post here (haven’t read them all), but a couple of the items are probably not the responsibility of the team. Fixing the showers and toilets probably falls on the county. Same with charging stations in the lockers. Could the team easily fix these items? Sure, but I’d bet Mike Brown would never do it if the lease could be interpreted in my way that the county is responsible.


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Yep from what I understand the county is responsible for upkeep for things like plumbing.  For example here is a quote from a 2016 article:

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/county-has-spent-920m-in-deal-to-build-stadium-keep-nfl-team-in-town-since-2000

Quote:Simply maintaining the stadium — keeping the lights on with utilities, for example, an insurance policy and a county-employed team of 25 that is responsible for plumbing, electricity, groundskeeping as well as around-the-clock security — costs the county roughly $7.5 million every year. A part of that cost also includes an administrative office that manages both the baseball field and the football stadium.

Now the sad thing is no matter who is responsible I don't think it requires a lot to make sure things like showers and toilets are working.  If it is indeed the county's responsibility then the Bengals organization should maybe be more proactive in pushing the county to correct those problems. So it is a question of, for example, shitter doesn't work and no one from the Bengals calling up the county and saying, "Hey shitters number 2 and 8 are not working you need to come fix it," or is it the Bengals notified the county and they blew it off? 

(03-04-2023, 04:28 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Now the sad thing is no matter who is responsible I don't think it requires a lot to make sure things like showers and toilets are working.  If it is indeed the county's responsibility then the Bengals organization should maybe be more proactive in pushing the county to correct those problems. So it is a question of, for example, shitter doesn't work and no one from the Bengals calling up the county and saying, "Hey shitters number 2 and 8 are not working you need to come fix it," or is it the Bengals notified the county and they blew it off? 

There is no context either. Was it an issue they couldnt fix while the facilities were under heavy use? It could have been an issue that had to wait until the off-season to fix. 

(03-03-2023, 12:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I doubt the survey was skewed; the question arose about who decides if a number of players answer "The Hot Tub could be bigger". Who says that's an F. 

I'd assert it's no different than any "Climate Survey" done for any business. No grades, just answer data collected. 

Some questions required the players give a ranking of 1-5, while other questions asked what they would change, improve, etc. 

They state that it's 'not a scientific survey', that's it's a 'summary of players opinions' and that it's 'inherently subjective'.

I think the issue is that they there's no way of knowing who responded or what they said. For example, what were the opinions of the free agents who have signed over the last couple of years compared to guys on the practice squad? How many total players replied? We have no way of knowing. Just a lot of unknowns, so it's hard to know how seriously to take this survey. 

(03-04-2023, 08:00 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Some questions required the players give a ranking of 1-5, while other questions asked what they would change, improve, etc. 

They state that it's 'not a scientific survey', that's it's a 'summary of players opinions' and that it's 'inherently subjective'.

I think the issue is that they there's no way of knowing who responded or what they said. For example, what were the opinions of the free agents who have signed over the last couple of years compared to guys on the practice squad? How many total players replied? We have no way of knowing. Just a lot of unknowns, so it's hard to know how seriously to take this survey. 

The issue is The PLAYER'S ASSOCIATION graded how the owners treated the PLAYERS based on the PLAYER'S replies. Did anyone think they were going to grade them highly?

It's in their interest to assign low grades

(03-04-2023, 08:00 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Some questions required the players give a ranking of 1-5, while other questions asked what they would change, improve, etc. 

They state that it's 'not a scientific survey', that's it's a 'summary of players opinions' and that it's 'inherently subjective'.

I think the issue is that they there's no way of knowing who responded or what they said. For example, what were the opinions of the free agents who have signed over the last couple of years compared to guys on the practice squad? How many total players replied? We have no way of knowing. Just a lot of unknowns, so it's hard to know how seriously to take this survey. 

They said about 1,300 players.

(03-05-2023, 12:12 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They said about 1,300 players.

Yeah, I was meaning we don't know exactly how many for any given team, only that the average is around 40.

(03-04-2023, 08:00 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Some questions required the players give a ranking of 1-5, while other questions asked what they would change, improve, etc. 

They state that it's 'not a scientific survey', that's it's a 'summary of players opinions' and that it's 'inherently subjective'.

I think the issue is that they there's no way of knowing who responded or what they said. For example, what were the opinions of the free agents who have signed over the last couple of years compared to guys on the practice squad? How many total players replied? We have no way of knowing. Just a lot of unknowns, so it's hard to know how seriously to take this survey. 

Actually 75% of the players responded not agents. It was a very well done survey. Based on the teams I’m familiar with it was pretty much on target.

(03-05-2023, 05:23 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Actually 75% of the players responded not agents. It was a very well done survey. Based on the teams I’m familiar with it was pretty much on target.

Huh? I never said anything about agents.

Also, 75% would only be if they surveyed guys on the 53. It doesn't say that was the case. If they also talked to guys on the PS and IR...it wouldn't be 75%. The only thing we know for sure is that it was an average of 40 per club. That means they could've talked to 20 guys on the Bengals or all of them...we have no idea. We also have no idea what the free agents brought in over the last couple of years had to say, or whether they even participated at all...which is supposed to be part of the goal - 'To improve the information available to free agents making decisions about their prospective clubs'.

It's hard to call this a well done survey when there's so much context missing, and the NFLPA says the survey is inherently subjective.

That doesn't mean that I don't think the Bengals or Chiefs couldn't actually be among the 6 worst organizations according the players...that might very well be the case.

(03-04-2023, 04:28 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Yep from what I understand the county is responsible for upkeep for things like plumbing.  For example here is a quote from a 2016 article:

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/county-has-spent-920m-in-deal-to-build-stadium-keep-nfl-team-in-town-since-2000



Now the sad thing is no matter who is responsible I don't think it requires a lot to make sure things like showers and toilets are working.  If it is indeed the county's responsibility then the Bengals organization should maybe be more proactive in pushing the county to correct those problems. So it is a question of, for example, shitter doesn't work and no one from the Bengals calling up the county and saying, "Hey shitters number 2 and 8 are not working you need to come fix it," or is it the Bengals notified the county and they blew it off? 

You never worked for the government, did you? Our offices at the Justice Cabinet flooded due to a broken pipe in the ceiling over the New Years holiday. We still are not back in the office. All they had to do was get Serve Pro in there to remove the water, pull up the carpet tiles (1st floor offices), cut out the bottom foot of drywall and replace it. Paint, and put down new carpet tiles. It's the government, which means they have to send out bids, get the bids in and go through the approval process, make sure the hires meet diversity standards, and schedule the work. The carpet bids must have come in and been set to expire prior to the drywall bids, so the new carpet was laid prior to the drywall being repaired, which will totally screw the new carpet. It's March 7th, and I'm still working from home. Prior to working for the state, I worked for Lexington. Government, at any level, will make a simple job take three times as long and twice as expensive as it needs to be. 

The training room/area is undergoing a $3 million rehab during the off season.  This has been in the works since the new Head Trainer starter last summer.  This addresses one of the big knocks from the report card

Quote:Thanks to a few walls coming down and expanding into some storage space, the players' lounge with its massage chairs and compression units becomes part of the recovery ward with an expanded hydrotherapy room. Hydrotherapy was cutting edge when Sparling helped open the building in 2000. Now plans call for new and bigger hot and cold tubs, a cryo (cold) chamber, a hyperbaric (oxygen) chamber, float beds and red-light beds.

https://www.bengals.com/news/training-room-facelift-mirrors-bengals-efficient-playoff-formula

(03-07-2023, 10:22 AM)Sled21 Wrote: You never worked for the government, did you?

I worked for the largest government agency for several years.  I'm aware of how things go.  I actually had a follow up post in this thread discussing similar issues as you brought up but removed it because I felt it might send the thread towards a P&R discussion which I try to avoid.  As Synric mentioned we also don't know all the details and what it would take to correct those issues during the season.  Heck we don't even know what the issues were exactly.  It could be the player(s) making the complaint felt the toilets didn't flush with enough power and the temperature of the showers was not to their liking.  Maybe one of them regularly clogged the toilet and wanted to put the blame on the facilities instead of their diet.

(03-07-2023, 12:49 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: I worked for the largest government agency for several years.  I'm aware of how things go.  I actually had a follow up post in this thread discussing similar issues as you brought up but removed it because I felt it might send the thread towards a P&R discussion which I try to avoid.  As Synric mentioned we also don't know all the details and what it would take to correct those issues during the season.  Heck we don't even know what the issues were exactly.  It could be the player(s) making the complaint felt the toilets didn't flush with enough power and the temperature of the showers was not to their liking.  Maybe one of them regularly clogged the toilet and wanted to put the blame on the facilities instead of their diet.

Hmmmm..... you just know it was Collins. Never had this problem before. 

I doubt if any free agents are like, Team A wants to pay me more money than Team B, but Team A did bad on this category on a survey.