(03-15-2023, 04:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Some aren't going to like the sound of this, but paying huge money to two top recevers, along with a premier franchise QB is just wasteful.  It robs the team of the ability to put a strong "rest of the team" around them.  When you have a true franchise QB like Joe Burrow, he will develop average players into stars.  Just put the spending where it belongs, on an OL and solid defense.

(03-15-2023, 07:39 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I couldn't agree more. In a perfect world I would love to keep Tee. But Burrows protection needs to continue to improve. I think we can find the other guys that we need to compliment Chase thru the draft. Also this free agency has shown that the idea that players chase rings is overstated. But you can find skill players on prove it deals that would like to have Burrow show case there skills. I love Boyd but seeing what his production has become I would've been fine moving on if it meant we could've kept Bell. I'm afraid we don't realize how special of a unit we had on defense and I'm afraid our two veteran safeties were a big part of it. We can replace that but I think it's gonna take a year or two and by then other parts of our defense will be aging out. I think we're trying to think to much about the future when our window is right now.

Except that Joe has said he wants Tee. So he owns all this. He’s involved in the discussion. Nobody knows the right formula. KC is not Cincy. I don’t know whether we can have a legitimate discussion until it all shakes out.

(03-15-2023, 06:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Absolutely if that is what happens, sure sounds like we really want to bring back Tee, but we will suffer somewhere else putting that 
much money into our weapons. Never know though, we said we also wanted to bring back our own this FA but that may have meant 
our big guys and not the smaller ones. Bell was really the only one who was a big time starter for us that was unexpected. We can 
still upgrade where we lost players and maybe even get players at a bargain the longer we wait.

With Tee I think we have to act like we are bringing him back, even if we aren't. It is a good strategy that could end in a nice trade 
for us and adding somewhere else which could help the team even more. Putting all your money into 1 basket should only be used 
on the QB that takes you to the promised land for the most part and the trenches cannot be ignored in front of him.

We have been trying to build up the OL and I thought did well last year, was starting to really work until LC went down, now we need 
to add a RT to keep that going. The interior is no longer a problem. In the end we will have to wait and see, Tee helps on those deep
fades down the sideline and he is one of the best at this but he also has been banged up at times and this can be a big gamble if we
do pay him big dough.

The line did play better. But the injuries showed we don't have much depth and Collins was pretty bad before he went down. People that cover the Bengals were pretty blah on Volson as well. I was really hoping we might try and bring someone in that could be an improvement over Volson. Or maybe a RT and then draft a early mid Rd guard for depth or possible starter. Now I think we are stuck on drafting a RT in Rd 1 which isn't bad but BPA would be good especially losing players. 

(03-15-2023, 07:39 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I couldn't agree more. In a perfect world I would love to keep Tee. But Burrows protection needs to continue to improve. I think we can find the other guys that we need to compliment Chase thru the draft. Also this free agency has shown that the idea that players chase rings is overstated. But you can find skill players on prove it deals that would like to have Burrow show case there skills. I love Boyd but seeing what his production has become I would've been fine moving on if it meant we could've kept Bell. I'm afraid we don't realize how special of a unit we had on defense and I'm afraid our two veteran safeties were a big part of it. We can replace that but I think it's gonna take a year or two and by then other parts of our defense will be aging out. I think we're trying to think to much about the future when our window is right now.

 I absolutely agree on the protection aspect.  Safeties are not priority positons.  Hell, the Rams pulled a guy off the couch at the end of the season and beat us for the 'ship...  I believe great offenses beat great defenses nowadays...


As to the oline, Burrow and Chase are the only 2 players I would take over a very good lineman.

I'd trade Tee, Boyd, and another real good player (or 2) for Tunsil and Seumalo right now.

(03-15-2023, 07:42 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: That’s correct we aren’t so far. We are investing in Tee and they didn’t Tyreek. There’s the debate. Just now Cynthia Frelund on NFL Free Agent Frenzy said start here about KC…. they had 9 freaking rookies seriously contribute.

While coach Zac is off to a good start, he's got a ways to go in terms of catching up to Andy Reid when it comes to knowing how to build a team and which parts to hold onto and which ones are replaceable.

(03-15-2023, 07:48 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Except that Joe has said he wants Tee. So he owns all this. He’s involved in the discussion. Nobody knows the right formula. KC is not Cincy. I don’t know whether we can have a legitimate discussion until it all shakes out.

I think if you have a Mahomes or Burrow the most important things are Protection and defense. Perhaps you need a #1 but I just can't see a #2 at the price Tee will demand. No one may know the correct formula but we saw a solid defense and subpar oline isn't the correct one with Tee. So I doubt letting the defense get weaker is gonna be the right one either.

(03-15-2023, 07:52 PM)casear2727 Wrote:  I absolutely agree on the protection aspect.  Safeties are not priority positons.  Hell, the Rams pulled a guy off the couch at the end of the season and beat us for the 'ship...  I believe great offenses beat great defenses nowadays...


As to the oline, Burrow and Chase are the only 2 players I would take over a very good lineman.

I'd trade Tee, Boyd, and another real good player (or 2) for Tunsil and Seumalo right now.

The Rams had Aaron Donald at DT along with Miller at Edge. Also Ramsey is an elite CB. Point being they could cover up a weakness at Safety. 

We don't have any of that on defense.

(03-15-2023, 07:52 PM)casear2727 Wrote:  I absolutely agree on the protection aspect.  Safeties are not priority positons.  Hell, the Rams pulled a guy off the couch at the end of the season and beat us for the 'ship...  I believe great offenses beat great defenses nowadays...


As to the oline, Burrow and Chase are the only 2 players I would take over a very good lineman.

I'd trade Tee, Boyd, and another real good player (or 2) for Tunsil and Seumalo right now.

Safeties are priority positions, if the Defensive Coordinator you have bases his game strategies around them.  Bonus, good Safeties are still cheaper than so called "lock-down CBs".

(03-15-2023, 07:49 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: The line did play better. But the injuries showed we don't have much depth and Collins was pretty bad before he went down. People that cover the Bengals were pretty blah on Volson as well. I was really hoping we might try and bring someone in that could be an improvement over Volson. Or maybe a RT and then draft a early mid Rd guard for depth or possible starter. Now I think we are stuck on drafting a RT in Rd 1 which isn't bad but BPA would be good especially losing players. 

The OL was playing well enough for a 10 win streak and completely shut down Chris Jones and the KC defense giving up zero sacks the regular season game. I don’t know who you are talking about who was blah on Volson. He improved a bunch and the staff was pleased. He was a rookie and they changed the scheme. They dominated the Bills with 3 backups. But I think they need to draft a tackle in round 1 but if there’s a big time TE at TE they may have to go there. But they can’t afford to use all their draft choices on the OL.

(03-15-2023, 07:58 PM)J24 Wrote: The Rams had Aaron Donald at DT along with Miller at Edge. Also Ramsey is an elite CB. Point being they could cover up a weakness at Safety. 

We don't have any of that on defense.

Never heard of them...............



You are not wrong.  Although Jalen had his hands full with Chase and Tee.....

If we can get an athletic vet to replace Bell we should be ok.  Our scheme is no long balls and secondary blitzing seems to mostly come from the NB, so hopefully not too difficult to pick up.

(03-15-2023, 08:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Safeties are priority positions, if the Defensive Coordinator you have bases his game strategies around them.  Bonus, good Safeties are still cheaper than so called "lock-down CBs".

They will always be cheaper than lock down CB in my opinion.   If Chido comes back healthy hopefully he and CTB wont need their butts covered too much...?  A better pass rush wouldnt hurt.

(03-15-2023, 08:05 PM)casear2727 Wrote: They will always be cheaper than lock down CB in my opinion.   If Chido comes back healthy hopefully he and CTB wont need their butts covered too much...?  A better pass rush wouldnt hurt.

You're right, better pass rush wouldn't hurt a thing.  However, if you're playing maximize the defensive roster on a budget, top Safeties still cost less than top edge rushers.

The old saying is that to be good on defense, you need to be strong up the middle.  Meaning good DTs, strong LBs, and athletic, hard-nosed Safeties.  It still rings true today, and consequently those positions are cheaper to have "good" at than edge rushers and "lock down" CBs.

(03-15-2023, 08:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You're right, better pass rush wouldn't hurt a thing.  However, if you're playing maximize the defensive roster on a budget, top Safeties still cost less than top edge rushers.

The old saying is that to be good on defense, you need to be strong up the middle.  Meaning good DTs, strong LBs, and athletic, hard-nosed Safeties.  It still rings true today, and consequently those positions are cheaper to have "good" at than edge rushers and "lock down" CBs.

Maybe it's because safety is considered a low priority position....?  

See what I did there?  lol

I saw something that the Chiefs have like half the amount of players making over $6 million a year than we do. Meaning they rely a lot on rookie deal guys.

(03-15-2023, 08:21 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I saw something that the Chiefs have like half the amount of players making over $6 million a year than we do. Meaning they rely a lot on rookie deal guys.

Yep they had 9 rookies get lots of playing time this year on NFL.com just now. That’s the biggest formula

(03-15-2023, 04:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Some aren't going to like the sound of this, but paying huge money to two top recevers, along with a premier franchise QB is just wasteful.  It robs the team of the ability to put a strong "rest of the team" around them.  When you have a true franchise QB like Joe Burrow, he will develop average players into stars.  Just put the spending where it belongs, on an OL and solid defense.

I think that meant don't sign Tee. It's such a tough decision though, I think in some cases Tee is better than Chase. I trust Tee on double team deep balls for one. 

(03-15-2023, 07:38 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Do you think the prices are staying like this?  Ben Powers, 1 year younger and consistently graded lower than Cappa just signed a 4 year 52M deal.  I think we managed some awesome deals last season, not sure we can count on that every year with the cap getting higher.

It would be nice to actually draft a stud we can pay rookie scale to for 4-5 years...  

There are quality free agents out there that wont cost an arm and a leg.  There are always teams that overpay for players.  Its not like free agent offensive linemen from this year onward are going to suddenly cost mega contracts.  As the NFL salary cap goes up, so do players salaries including offensive linemen. Thats just the way it is and the way it has been.    

Yes, it would be nice to be able to draft quality linemen but if you dont have a good enough scouting department to identify these talented offensive linemen and you keep drafting guys like Adeniji and relying on these types of players when they dont have the talent, your only other option to improve those positions is free agency.

(03-15-2023, 03:56 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: True, but realistically, this is the last year we'll have these coaches.

We almost lost a few. That won't happen again.

Plus, we have a small window. The iron is hot right now. Strike, damn you. STRIKE.

It'll take some spending to get there. I'm not sure they have it in them.

Joe Burrow does not agree with you about the window subject.

(03-15-2023, 07:39 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I couldn't agree more. In a perfect world I would love to keep Tee. But Burrows protection needs to continue to improve. I think we can find the other guys that we need to compliment Chase thru the draft. Also this free agency has shown that the idea that players chase rings is overstated. But you can find skill players on prove it deals that would like to have Burrow show case there skills. I love Boyd but seeing what his production has become I would've been fine moving on if it meant we could've kept Bell. I'm afraid we don't realize how special of a unit we had on defense and I'm afraid our two veteran safeties were a big part of it. We can replace that but I think it's gonna take a year or two and by then other parts of our defense will be aging out. I think we're trying to think to much about the future when our window is right now.

agree completely with blueprint your spelling out and as to the highlighted

They're out there at times, but they're usually aging vets that have already made enough money throughout their career and now just seek the ring.  The ones we lost really have not had huge contracts yet and still trying to set their families up. Cant blame any of them for taking the money and running.

   

(03-15-2023, 08:03 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The OL was playing well enough for a 10 win streak and completely shut down Chris Jones and the KC defense giving up zero sacks the regular season game. I don’t know who you are talking about who was blah on Volson. He improved a bunch and the staff was pleased. He was a rookie and they changed the scheme. They dominated the Bills with 3 backups. But I think they need to draft a tackle in round 1 but if there’s a big time TE at TE they may have to go there. But they can’t afford to use all their draft choices on the OL.

Joe Goodberry for one said Volson was okay and if your good with okay than thats fine. I also believe theyre were others but I can't name them specifically.
I'm not suggesting spending every draft pick on the line I'm only anticipating them using one pick i was suggesting getting a guard in FA and a 1st round 
Tackle or a Tackle in FA and a guard in the draft at some point. I think Cappa blanked Chris Jones the first go rd and he was probably our best lineman before
his injury. But we need depth so we should be trying to pickup a FA for the line even if its just to increase the overall talent of the oline room.

(03-15-2023, 08:42 PM)Go Cards Wrote: agree completely with blueprint your spelling out and as to the highlighted

They're out there at times, but they're usually aging vets that have already made enough money throughout their career and now just seek the ring.  The ones we lost really have not had huge contracts yet and still trying to set their families up. Cant blame any of them for taking the money and running.

   

Your right. I certainly don't blame any of them. You can only play so many years and make that kind of money.