(04-17-2023, 02:18 PM)jj22 Wrote: Trade for whatever you can get at this point. Him no showing offseason workouts should be the straw... He won't be ready to play RT with no offseason work at it. They have to cut losses.

I tend to agree.  I think his trade value might be its highest right now.  If the Bengals wait until after the draft, teams that needed a LT will probably have addressed that during the draft. 

(04-17-2023, 02:18 PM)jj22 Wrote: Trade for whatever you can get at this point. Him no showing offseason workouts should be the straw... He won't be ready to play RT with no offseason work at it. They have to cut losses.

Disagree. On several levels. 

1) OTAs aren't until June. This stuff is mostly conditioning, not technique stuff. If a team wants an OT in the draft & whiffs, then Jonah's value goes up. Or they have an injury. 

2) I would be disinclined to weaken the position before having a replacement in hand. Or at least being in a spot where I could pick a starter level OT to replace him with. Though if I feel real good about Carman at RT and Collins' progress, I could go ahead if the rerurn is decent. ATM, his value is higher to us because we do not have a viable Day 1 RT atm. 

(04-17-2023, 07:19 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I tend to agree.  I think his trade value might be its highest right now.  If the Bengals wait until after the draft, teams that needed a LT will probably have addressed that during the draft. 

I'm going to predict that Williams' highest trade value will be between 10:30-11:00 pm, next Thursday night.

(04-20-2023, 01:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm going to predict that Williams' highest trade value will be between 10:30-11:00 pm, next Thursday night.

I’ll give it a broader window. Say from around 9:30 pm Thursday to to midnight Friday


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(04-20-2023, 01:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm going to predict that Williams' highest trade value will be between 10:30-11:00 pm, next Thursday night.

Yep, a week away. 

I understand why some would think Jonah will be traded either Thursday night late or the window before day 2 Friday draft.

I do believe if Jonah is going to be traded, teams are working on deals now. I would not give up much for a one year rental, but if given the chance to extend Williams contract, that changes his value.

I think the Bengals are allowing William's agent to have contract discussions right now, it would not be diligent to just give a starting LT away and yes he can still start at LT and be an upgrade on some teams.

(04-20-2023, 02:57 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I understand why some would think Jonah will be traded either Thursday night late or the window before day 2 Friday draft.

I do believe if Jonah is going to be traded, teams are working on deals now. I would not give up much for a one year rental, but if given the chance to extend Williams contract, that changes his value.

I think the Bengals are allowing William's agent to have contract discussions right now, it would not be diligent to just give a starting LT away and yes he can still start at LT and be an upgrade on some teams.

On some teams, just not likely this one.

(04-20-2023, 03:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: On some teams, just not likely this one.

Especially in a Gap scheme where we are now more oriented towards power like it seems Pollack is leaning with the Brown and Ford 
additions. Carman fits, sure as hell hope he plays at RT like he did at LT in the Playoffs and we are all good barring injuries. If not and
Darnell Wright is there at 28 and we don't take him I think we will regret it big time.

(04-20-2023, 01:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm going to predict that Williams' highest trade value will be between 10:30-11:00 pm, next Thursday night.

He has zero value Thursday because no one is giving up a 1st for him, unless we give a 1st back.

(04-20-2023, 07:25 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: He has zero value Thursday because no one is giving up a 1st for him, unless we give a 1st back.

No one is saying we get a first for Jonah. But after a team gets who the want in 1 they may start laying the groundwork to acquire him


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(04-20-2023, 07:54 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: No one is saying we get a first for Jonah.  But after a team gets who the want in 1 they may start laying the groundwork to acquire him


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Or if there is a team who needed a tackle, & thought they were gonna draft one, but miss in round 1, they might be inclined to trade more Jonah instead of going crapshoot in Rd 2.  

Right now we have the following OT on roster:

Brown
Collins
Jonah
Carman
Ford
Adeniji
Smith

Since we only usually keep 4 we're already going to have to cut/trade 3. Picking another OT high makes those numbers 8 and 4 respectively. So the only way I see us taking another Tackle is if we have a Jonah deal set up.

Look at that competition at RT. Deepest OL battle I can remember. With decent options.

I think it would be more likely we get a trade of Jonah if OL start going early in the draft. So many teams need OL help. He could be a fallback plan.

(04-20-2023, 10:36 PM)Joelist Wrote: Right now we have the following OT on roster:

Brown
Collins
Jonah
Carman
Ford
Adeniji
Smith

Since we only usually keep 4 we're already going to have to cut/trade 3. Picking another OT high makes those numbers 8 and 4 respectively. So the only way I see us taking another Tackle is if we have a Jonah deal set up.

Help me spread the gospel on this. I mean, if Collins is PUP it is down to 6. Even if Ford/Carman/Adeniji/Smith win the open OG4 spot, we are still at 5. If Wright falls into our lap (unlikely) we could do a Jonah trade Thursday night, but everyone knows we HAVE to offload at that point. Unless we get a team really desperate for an OT, we won't have leverage. 

If we take an OT, it needs to be a plug & play starter, which likely means Rd1 or mid 2nd. 60 probably too late. We are full up on backup level OTs, and we have other areas where a 2nd/3rd/4th rounder coukd land a guy who will play kore & contribute (TE1/2, RB2, CB4, WR depth, rotational D line). 

(04-21-2023, 02:56 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Help me spread the gospel on this. I mean, if Collins is PUP it is down to 6. Even if Ford/Carman/Adeniji/Smith win the open OG4 spot, we are still at 5. If Wright falls into our lap (unlikely) we could do a Jonah trade Thursday night, but everyone knows we HAVE to offload at that point. Unless we get a team really desperate for an OT, we won't have leverage. 

If we take an OT, it needs to be a plug & play starter, which likely means Rd1 or mid 2nd. 60 probably too late. We are full up on backup level OTs, and we have other areas where a 2nd/3rd/4th rounder coukd land a guy who will play kore & contribute (TE1/2, RB2, CB4, WR depth, rotational D line). 

Exactly. We are way overloaded at OT. And I am not confident any of these players being able to slide to Guard successfully.

(04-21-2023, 02:56 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Help me spread the gospel on this. I mean, if Collins is PUP it is down to 6. Even if Ford/Carman/Adeniji/Smith win the open OG4 spot, we are still at 5. If Wright falls into our lap (unlikely) we could do a Jonah trade Thursday night, but everyone knows we HAVE to offload at that point. Unless we get a team really desperate for an OT, we won't have leverage. 

If we take an OT, it needs to be a plug & play starter, which likely means Rd1 or mid 2nd. 60 probably too late. We are full up on backup level OTs, and we have other areas where a 2nd/3rd/4th rounder coukd land a guy who will play kore & contribute (TE1/2, RB2, CB4, WR depth, rotational D line). 

I wouldn’t pass up a stud RT bc of who we currently have. Jonah isn’t proven, Collins hurt, rest we know aren’t good enough.

We can draft one and figure out the rest later. We’re not keeping Jonah next gear anyways so who plays RT next year? I’m not saying we have to draft RT, but if he’s best available player- go for it. RT is a more important position than TE, RB, maybe even CB. We had a great D last year with Eli Apple starting. We now have Chido and CTB.

I keep going back to, if we had this position upgraded- do we beat the rams or cheifs? I can say yes to RT and maybe DE. No other position do I personally say that.

(04-20-2023, 10:36 PM)Joelist Wrote: Right now we have the following OT on roster:

Brown
Collins
Jonah
Carman
Ford
Adeniji
Smith

Since we only usually keep 4 we're already going to have to cut/trade 3. Picking another OT high makes those numbers 8 and 4 respectively. So the only way I see us taking another Tackle is if we have a Jonah deal set up.

Smith and mainly Adeniji really have no business being on the roster.
Smith's had two seasons to try to surpass Adeniji, and Adeniji is terrible.
In a perfect world, neither makes the roster, even when Collins is on PUP/IR.

Honestly, as long as Jonah is still on the team, I can see them not getting another OT and just rolling with Jonah, Brown, Carman, and Ford until Collins is back. They don't normally go with 5 OTs on the depth chart, but I guess they could if they were willing to go lighter somewhere else (RB, TE, WR).

(04-21-2023, 12:45 PM)Joelist Wrote: Exactly. We are way overloaded at OT. And I am not confident any of these players being able to slide to Guard successfully.

If that were even close to being true, then the team would not have went out and picked up Orlando Brown Jr.  Perhaps a more accurate statement would be "the Bengals have a lot of bodies that play Tackle".  

Other than Brown at LT, the Bengals have

Jonah Williams- Can't stay healty, and around average for a LT when he is healty.
La'el Collins- Best days are behind him, chronic back problems, now a recovering knee patient.
Cody Ford- Hasn't done anything close to impressive thus far in his career.
Hakeem Adeneji- The guy tries, but he's just not that good.
Jackson Carman- Disappointment from day 1, flashed in fluke snow game versus uninspired Bills team.
D'Ante Smith- Who??  A developmental project that hasn't developed thus far.

Not exactly a murder's row of talent at the Tackle position.  A strong rookie should be able to make the squad, provide quality depth and make Smith, Adeneji, and one of Williams/Collins expendable.

(04-21-2023, 03:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If that were even close to being true, then the team would not have went out and picked up Orlando Brown Jr.  Perhaps a more accurate statement would be "the Bengals have a lot of bodies that play Tackle".  

Other than Brown at LT, the Bengals have

Jonah Williams- Can't stay healty, and around average for a LT when he is healty.
La'el Collins- Best days are behind him, chronic back problems, now a recovering knee patient.
Cody Ford- Hasn't done anything close to impressive thus far in his career.
Hakeem Adeneji- The guy tries, but he's just not that good.
Jackson Carman- Disappointment from day 1, flashed in fluke snow game versus uninspired Bills team.
D'Ante Smith- Who??  A developmental project that hasn't developed thus far.

Not exactly a murder's row of talent at the Tackle position.  A strong rookie should be able to make the squad, provide quality depth and make Smith, Adeneji, and one of Williams/Collins expendable.

These are your opinions; they may not be the opinions of the Bengals braintrust. Right now we have 7 OT on active roster, sp we a;ready know three of them are gone. Drafting another means 4 of the current 7 are likely gone. I'm not opining on the merits of the players, just saying that absent a Jonah deal don't look for the Bengals to go OT early. 

(04-21-2023, 03:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If that were even close to being true, then the team would not have went out and picked up Orlando Brown Jr.  Perhaps a more accurate statement would be "the Bengals have a lot of bodies that play Tackle".  

Other than Brown at LT, the Bengals have

Jonah Williams- Can't stay healty, and around average for a LT when he is healty.
La'el Collins- Best days are behind him, chronic back problems, now a recovering knee patient.
Cody Ford- Hasn't done anything close to impressive thus far in his career.
Hakeem Adeneji- The guy tries, but he's just not that good.
Jackson Carman- Disappointment from day 1, flashed in fluke snow game versus uninspired Bills team.
D'Ante Smith- Who??  A developmental project that hasn't developed thus far.

Not exactly a murder's row of talent at the Tackle position.  A strong rookie should be able to make the squad, provide quality depth and make Smith, Adeneji, and one of Williams/Collins expendable.

 
If you cannot see the difference between the situation now and before we got Brown, then IDK if further conversation on the subject is merited. Also, Carman was very good in pass pro vs KC in the title game. And reportedly reported in his best ever shape. Even limited last year, Collins was our best run blocker. 

I get not being thrilled with the non-Brown tackle options, but numerically speaking, no other position on the roster is close to this overloaded with bodies. Jonah and Collins both had their worst years last year, and we still won a bunch in a row with them there and got to the AFC title game with Carman, Adeniji, and Scharping starting, and almost won it. If Collins & Williams (or Cappa) are healthy, I think we are talking tickertape. 

Jonah is not gonna sit out & we do not necessarily need the cap space at this point. A top tier rook would be great, but there are only 4 likely to be better than Jonah/Collins this year. If those are gone, I'd rather shop elsewhere where the puckings aren't as slim and we have bigger needs (TE, CB, pass rush, RB).