(04-25-2023, 04:44 PM)kevin Wrote: We will agree to disagree.  I think he should honor his contract with The Bengals.  If he doesn't want to play for Bengals then fine, he doesn't play for anybody and loses million of dollars in 2023.  If he thinks losing millions is best for him, then so be it.  He should honor his signed contract with The Bengals. 

then you also think EVERY CLUB should honor every contract they sign

(04-25-2023, 04:44 PM)kevin Wrote: We will agree to disagree.  I think he should honor his contract with The Bengals.  If he doesn't want to play for Bengals then fine, he doesn't play for anybody and loses million of dollars in 2023.  If he thinks losing millions is best for him, then so be it.  He should honor his signed contract with The Bengals. 

That works both ways, the Bengals took up the 5th year option, then demoted the guy and brought his replacement in while he's still on the team.  I can completely see where his animosity is coming from, and I'd say that he's justified in asking for the trade, even if it was only a formality on principle.  I feel like the Bengals are going to continue to do whatever they feel is best for the Bengals.  If that means they find a trade deal that they can benefit from they'll do it, if they feel better keeping Williams around for next season then that will be what happens.

(04-25-2023, 04:49 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: then you also think EVERY CLUB should honor every contract they sign

In regards to Jonah Williams, the Bengals have honored their contract.  They paid Jonah top dollar when he was on IL and couldn't play. and provided medical and rehab.  However if Jonah was doing that great, Bengals would not have added Brown.  All they are asking Jonah to do is play on another part of the offensive line.  I would like somebody to show where his contract states that Jonah will Only Play Left Tackle, because I guarantee that is not in his contract. 

So I don't know every club and every contract, but I know Bengals have lived up to their end with Jonah when they weren't getting much playing time from Jonah. Plus Jonah got medical and rehab from Bengals.  

Look, I'll never forgive Chad Johnson saying he was too good to play in Cincinnati, and then Carson Palmer.  Now comes Jonah Williams.  The truth is none of them were too good to play in Cincinnati.  Better players than them have worn the Bengals uniform with Pride. 

(04-25-2023, 05:03 PM)kevin Wrote: In regards to Jonah Williams, the Bengals have honored their contract.  They paid Jonah top dollar when he was on IL and couldn't play. and provided medical and rehab.  However if Jonah was doing that great, Bengals would not have added Brown.  All they are asking Jonah to do is play on another part of the offensive line.  I would like somebody to show where his contract states that Jonah will Only Play Left Tackle, because I guarantee that is not in his contract. 

So I don't know every club and every contract, but I know Bengals have lived up to their end with Jonah when they weren't getting much playing time from Jonah. Plus Jonah got medical and rehab from Bengals.  

Look, I'll never forgive Chad Johnson saying he was too good to play in Cincinnati, and then Carson Palmer.  Now comes Jonah Williams.  The truth is none of them were too good to play in Cincinnati.  Better players than them have worn the Bengals uniform with Pride. 

"Top dollar" is not entirely accurate.
It's a rookie contract.

It's pretty much every company's policy that you'll get paid when getting injured on the job.

Bottom line is Jonah asked for a trade, but he never said he was sitting out if he doesn't get it.
At the end of the day, it's the Bengals' choice if they want to keep him this year or not.
But it's also fair that he feels disrespected and thus no longer wants to be part of the organization because of it.

Players don't get the luxury that many of us do and just go join another company if we don't like where we are.

Writing is on the wall though that Jonah is not a Bengal after this year.

(04-25-2023, 05:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: "Top dollar" is not entirely accurate.
It's a rookie contract.

It's pretty much every company's policy that you'll get paid when getting injured on the job.

Bottom line is Jonah asked for a trade, but he never said he was sitting out if he doesn't get it.
At the end of the day, it's the Bengals' choice if they want to keep him this year or not.
But it's also fair that he feels disrespected and thus no longer wants to be part of the organization because of it.

Players don't get the luxury that many of us do and just go join another company if we don't like where we are.

Writing is on the wall though that Jonah is not a Bengal after this year.

IMO its always better to have someone that WANTS to be here than not

(04-26-2023, 08:37 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: IMO its always better to have someone that WANTS to be here than not

Sure it is. But this is the NFL, and the Bengals own his rights right now. If they can get fair trade value for him great, but there is zero reason to just give him away. 

(04-26-2023, 08:37 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: IMO its always better to have someone that WANTS to be here than not

As Tomlin would say it's better to have volunteers than hostages'. Much better for the locker roorm. 

(04-25-2023, 04:32 PM)kevin Wrote: Oh Poor Jonah.  Boo Who

Look, when Jonah was drafted and signed a contract, I'm sure the contract doesn't say Only At Left Tackle.  He was signed to be an Offensive Lineman. 

I'll add the Bengals had to pay Jonah when he was injured as if he was playing, and Jonah got paid a lot while never taking the field in a game.  

So I think Jonah owes the Bengals.  He signed a contract and also got paid while IL injured many games. I'm sure his contract does not say Left Tackle Only. I think Jonah owes the Bengals and should live up to his contract, because the Bengals have when he was injured.  This means he plays where they need him to play, and if RT, so be it. 

However if Jonah thinks he is too good to play RT, which is a joke because Jonah is no Hall Of Fame bound player..  If Jonah thinks he is too good to play RT and sits out and refuses to play if not traded, then let him sit out.  He won't get paid if he sits out.  He will lose out on millions of dollars which will hurt him and his family.  Nobody is so rich they can lose that kind of money. IF he doesn't want to get paid in 2023, that's his choice.  He can't play for anybody else, he signed a contract with The Bengals. 

I side with Ownership on this one.  I'm tired of these spoiled players wanting owners to live up to their end of the contract, but players don't think they have to live up to their end of the contract.  So if he ends up not playing for anybody in 2023 and loses out on millions, I say fine Jonah.  Leave and sit out and don't let the door hit you in your moon pie.  Or you could honor your contract and protect Joe Burrow from Right Tackle and be there to move to Left Tackle if an injury to Brown.  Or again, sit out and not get paid at all.  

I'm all for Ownership saying NO TRADE, and telling Jonah his contract doesn't say Left Tackle.  Play for Bengals or don't play at all and lose millions of dollars, Mister Williams. Or quit football and go find your Life's Work, as Paul Brown use to say.  Whatever his Life's Work would be, it will not pay what Bengals are paying him.

This is one of the most uninformed comments I have read on this site, and that is saying something.  Maybe change your name to "I don't know anything about the NFL"?

#1. Every player gets paid while injured, this is a dumb comment.
#2  Jonah has never said he is too good to play RT.  This is a dumb projection by you.
#3  Jonah has never said he is sitting out.  This is another, dumber, projection by you.
#4  Only simple minded people think there are "sides" in this situation.  The Bengals, not being dumb, understand Jonah's issue, and they are absolutely trying to do right by him without hurting the team.  If they can obtain assets they think are equitable in trading Jonah they will.  If not he will be on the roster.  Jonah, also not dumb, understands this business side of the NFL, unlike some that are just not very bright.
#5  Jonah has never said he would not honor his contract and Joe Burrow has zero to do with it.
#6  Ownership has never said NO TRADE, only dumb people project that hey have.

Have you considered quitting your fandom of a sport of which you so truly do not understand? 

(04-23-2023, 08:56 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: To bolded:

Collins and Williams both had terrible seasons, both for injury reasons.  When your plan to protect your franchise QB has eroded just that simply, it's time to cut and run on both of those guys.

Carman still has a LOT of proving to do, before he can be considered reliable for a full season.  Sorry, a couple of late season appearances just doesn't do it for me.

You say "before Brown fell in our laps", but how do you not know that the FO was looking to secure the position from the get-go?  It appears to me that they made their move, struck fast, struck hard..

I also disagree about the #4 OT spot being the only one up for grabs.  I see the RT/Swing Tackle being between Carman and Ford.  I really feel like Williams is not going to be on the opening day roster.  Sorry if that hurts your feelings or disrupts your vision of how the team will play out, but that's my seasoned opinion.  I see the Bengals drafting a rookie to be the RT of the future.  He may not be a day 1 starter, he might be developmental all season if Carman or Ford step up, we will have to see.

I'll have to see if I can find the clip, but there was an interview with Rappoport or another NFL insider that said the Bengals check in on Brown initially and moved on because they weren't able to meet his asking price.  Then something fell apart and they jumped back in late and got him.

(04-26-2023, 10:48 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I'll have to see if I can find the clip, but there was an interview with Rappoport or another NFL insider that said the Bengals check in on Brown initially and moved on because they weren't able to meet his asking price.  Then something fell apart and they jumped back in late and got him.

Hmm, so it does appear that the Bengals were looking to upgrade LT from the get-go.

(04-26-2023, 10:26 AM)casear2727 Wrote: This is one of the most uninformed comments I have read on this site, and that is saying something.  Maybe change your name to "I don't know anything about the NFL"?

#1. Every player gets paid while injured, this is a dumb comment.
#2  Jonah has never said he is too good to play RT.  This is a dumb projection by you.
#3  Jonah has never said he is sitting out.  This is another, dumber, projection by you.
#4  Only simple minded people think there are "sides" in this situation.  The Bengals, not being dumb, understand Jonah's issue, and they are absolutely trying to do right by him without hurting the team.  If they can obtain assets they think are equitable in trading Jonah they will.  If not he will be on the roster.  Jonah, also not dumb, understands this business side of the NFL, unlike some that are just not very bright.
#5  Jonah has never said he would not honor his contract and Joe Burrow has zero to do with it.
#6  Ownership has never said NO TRADE, only dumb people project that hey have.

Have you considered quitting your fandom of a sport of which you so truly do not understand? 

Kevin is an older gentleman who tends to think with his emotions sometimes and has the, "Paul Brown," mentality, if you know what I mean.

Best to just scroll on by.

(04-26-2023, 08:37 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: IMO its always better to have someone that WANTS to be here than not

So if Adeniji wants to be here and Jonah doesn't; yet both are on the roster. You rolling w/ Adeniji at RT?

(04-26-2023, 10:48 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I'll have to see if I can find the clip, but there was an interview with Rappoport or another NFL insider that said the Bengals check in on Brown initially and moved on because they weren't able to meet his asking price.  Then something fell apart and they jumped back in late and got him.

His agent called us. That's the "thing" that happened. 

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2023/03/21/orlando-brown-reached-out-bengals-first-deal/

Plus, even after that, the plan was for Jonah to play RT. Either way, the FO was more than confortable with Jonah being the starter, LT/RT, at various points this offseason. Which is the point. We are not gonna trade him just to trade him. We have to get good value. If it was there, the deal would be done (see Ekeler, Austin). Draftcday possible, for sure. 

But the FO is confortable with him starting. Collins does not seem worried. Brown, Williams, Carman, + Collins (when healthy) seems like the best bet for our OT room. With Ford/Adeniji/Smith in competition for #4 until Collins is ready. And that is pretty darn good. Not good enough to stop us from taking Wright if he's there, but I think good enough to stop us from reaching for a R1 tackle (Harrison, Bergeron, D. Jones) if he isn't. And those guys are likely gone by #60. After that, better off just focusing on spots with deeper classes where we can get contributors later and/or more immediate needs (CB, pass rush, TE, RB, IOL/WR/DT depth). 

 

(04-26-2023, 10:48 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I'll have to see if I can find the clip, but there was an interview with Rappoport or another NFL insider that said the Bengals check in on Brown initially and moved on because they weren't able to meet his asking price.  Then something fell apart and they jumped back in late and got him.

From what I read that is kind of correct.  I think he did not like what the Chiefs were offering and his camp reached out to the Bengals per his request.

Jaguars LT Cam Robinson is going to be suspended for PEDs. Length of suspension unknown at this point. Depending on the outcome, this could present an opportunity. Investing a mid round pick and 12m into an insurance policy on a one year player isn’t great, but neither is using a really high pick that has 4-5 year implications. With the jags the clear favorites in their division they can’t afford to come out slow.

(04-26-2023, 12:59 PM)spazz70 Wrote: From what I read that is kind of correct.  I think he did not like what the Chiefs were offering and his camp reached out to the Bengals per his request.

The Chefs were moving him to RT, and he did not like it. Sound familiar?

(04-26-2023, 12:54 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: His agent called us. That's the "thing" that happened. 

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2023/03/21/orlando-brown-reached-out-bengals-first-deal/

Plus, even after that, the plan was for Jonah to play RT. Either way, the FO was more than confortable with Jonah being the starter, LT/RT, at various points this offseason. Which is the point. We are not gonna trade him just to trade him. We have to get good value. If it was there, the deal would be done (see Ekeler, Austin). Draftcday possible, for sure. 

But the FO is confortable with him starting. Collins does not seem worried. Brown, Williams, Carman, + Collins (when healthy) seems like the best bet for our OT room. With Ford/Adeniji/Smith in competition for #4 until Collins is ready. And that is pretty darn good. Not good enough to stop us from taking Wright if he's there, but I think good enough to stop us from reaching for a R1 tackle (Harrison, Bergeron, D. Jones) if he isn't. And those guys are likely gone by #60. After that, better off just focusing on spots with deeper classes where we can get contributors later and/or more immediate needs (CB, pass rush, TE, RB, IOL/WR/DT depth). 

 

The Bengals are fine if they don’t draft a Olinemen. First time in years and they will have to cut guys who played in the playoffs. They have higher needs anyway as you say. This weekend the drama for me is whether a trade can be swung involving Jonah.

(04-27-2023, 08:21 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Jaguars LT Cam Robinson is going to be suspended for PEDs.  Length of suspension unknown at this point.  Depending on the outcome, this could present an opportunity.  Investing a mid round pick and 12m into an insurance policy on a one year  player isn’t great, but neither is using a really high pick that has 4-5 year implications.  With the jags the clear favorites in their division they can’t afford to come out slow.

I read it could be as little as two games, but as much as 6 (or eight?). 

The few mocks I gave seen where we trade up all involved the Jags at #24. If there is a team who might be interested in Jonah, this is them. 

FWIW, trade value: 

Jags #24 = 740 + Jags #121 = 52. 740 + 52 = 792. 
Bengals #28 = 660. Bengals #92 = 132. 660 + 132 = 792. 

That is bang on trade value. And that is without including Jonah. He is likely a Rd3 compensatory pick if he walks next year, I have to think we at oeast get that in a trade for it to be worth it for us. 3rd Rd comp picks values at 92-116. 

Jags #56 = 340. Bengals #62 = 300. Diff = 40. 
Jags have two 4ths, #121 is worth 52. 40 + 52 is 92.  

92 is a 3rd round compensatory value. Albeit the lowest. Jags have 3 6ths if you want to spice it up more, or if Jax would rather keep #121 and deal #127, worth 45, instead. Throw in #185 (15.8), #202 (9), or #208 (6.6) to make up the difference. 

With Jonah low 3rd value, it would look like: .....

Jags: Jonah, #28, #62 
Bengals: #24, #60, #121 (or #127 + #185/#1292/#206). 

I think those are fair trades. We'd need an OT early to do it, be it Rd 1 or, more likely, at #60 or #92  (Bergeron, Mauch, D. Jones, Freeland). 

(04-27-2023, 11:21 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I read it could be as little as two games, but as much as 6 (or eight?). 

The few mocks I gave seen where we trade up all involved the Jags at #24. If there is a team who might be interested in Jonah, this is them. 

FWIW, trade value: 

Jags #24 = 740 + Jags #121 = 52. 740 + 52 = 792. 
Bengals #28 = 660. Bengals #92 = 132. 660 + 132 = 792. 

That is bang on trade value. And that is without including Jonah. He is likely a Rd3 compensatory pick if he walks next year, I have to think we at oeast get that in a trade for it to be worth it for us. 3rd Rd comp picks values at 92-116. 

Jags #56 = 340. Bengals #62 = 300. Diff = 40. 
Jags have two 4ths, #121 is worth 52. 40 + 52 is 92.  

92 is a 3rd round compensatory value. Albeit the lowest. Jags have 3 6ths if you want to spice it up more, or if Jax would rather keep #121 and deal #127, worth 45, instead. Throw in #185 (15.8), #202 (9), or #208 (6.6) to make up the difference. 

With Jonah low 3rd value, it would look like: .....

Jags: Jonah, #28, #62 
Bengals: #24, #60, #121 (or #127 + #185/#1292/#206). 

I think those are fair trades. We'd need an OT early to do it, be it Rd 1 or, more likely, at #60 or #92  (Bergeron, Mauch, D. Jones, Freeland). 

They starting to have Tackle problems in Jax, lost their RT Jawaan Taylor to Chiefs who could have filled in while Cam's out, and now this:

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/reports_jags_lt_cam_robinson_facing_ped_suspension/s1_17049_38746744

Per the ESPN report, Robinson could be suspended two, six or eight games, depending on the results of the 27-year-old's B sample. It would be Robinson's first PED offense.

They were a contender last year so they are possibly hurting. But funny thing if they take jonah, he will end up at RT after Cam comes back..
Plus Cam can appeal and get the number cut in half.

I'll leave judgments on the veracity of this report to you dear readers...

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-draft-rumors-will-levis-hooker-2023/

Quote:We could see Cincinnati Bengals offensive tackle Jonah Williams traded this evening. I’m told there have been discussions with several teams. The Jacksonville Jaguars had shown interest before selecting Anton Harrison in the first round yesterday.

The offensive tackle-needy New York Jets are also showing interest in Williams, but the team would need about $2 million in additional cap space to accommodate the $12.6 million needed to fit Williams on the roster.