This question was posed on the Locked On Bengals podcast. Jake Liscow and Joe Goodberry were talking about it.

Now that the bulk of FA and the draft have completed, the roster is pretty much set.
The only things that might happen are some Summer trades/pickups, but those are usually very few and far between, most often involving backups.

Based on who's on the roster today, is this a better team than last year's squad?

My take:
LT is an upgrade
RT is up in the air, but it could possibly be an upgrade once we get to see Williams, Carman, and Ford out there.
CB I feel is an upgrade overall.
DL should be upgraded some, although mainly from a rotational standpoint.
Same with WR. Depth was improved.
Safety is up in the air with Bates and Bell gone, but I think it will be worse at least for the first 1-2 months. I like the potential of the safeties though.
TE is arguably a downgrade. Irv Smith is no more productive than Hurst and is less durable, and the depth didn't improve.
RB I think has more juice, but pass protection might be worse from that position.
Backup QB is maybe a push, although I've never been a Brandon Allen fan. Maybe it's a downgrade.

Since I cannot confidently say better or worse, I'll vote "not sure yet"

My feeling is that while we definitely downgraded at safety, it's not by much as I think Dax and Scott will prove to be a decent pair of safeties. Also, safety is really the only place we downgraded: TE, I think is a wash; OL improved; RB is currently a wash, IMO but could be improved depending on how Chase Brown, Trayvon Williams do in Perine's place; DL improved, WR, slightly improved; CB improved; and LB are a wash.

Overall, I'd say we improved somewhat and, really, the improvement to the OL is really what's going to stand out and help us get to, and win, the Super Bowl this year.

Overall, I'd say a push or slightly worse. I think the OL will end up being an upgrade, but how much depends on what happens at RT. RB room is a slight downgrade as Perine was a very dependable RB. TE is a push but there are some health concerns. I think CB and S are clear downgrades. We lost both guys in the back-end, Chido is coming off of a torn achilles which are notorious for sapping athleticism. Apple is gone, who was very dependable. There is a lot of young talent in the DB room and the potential is high, but I don't think we are going to see that pay off immediately.

A lot of unknowns with the current team. However, if I was forced to pick who would win in a best of 7/5/whatever series, I would say 2022 wins.

With what we know - I think the team is overall better.

The biggest question mark is at safety - its impossible to tell if its going to be better or worse because we literally don't know what we have.

Dax Hill could be this monster play maker and could actually be an upgrade over Bates or Bell.

I voted not sure because OLine should be better but D may take a year to get to where they were. The encouraging thing is that last year people were picking the Chiefs to finish 2nd or 3rd in their division because of the players they lost and look where they ended up (although I would love to have the refs on our team like the Chiefs did in the playoffs and SB - that would put us over the top)

Well the Homer in me says we've upgraded the team. We upgraded two of our deficiencies. Our OL and our pass rush. Our safeties aren't as good, but I think we improved at vorner. Our special teams probably improved a TON, which is really overlooked. I don't think we're a ton better but I do think we're better .

(05-03-2023, 10:50 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Well the Homer in me says we've upgraded the team. We upgraded two of our deficiencies. Our OL and our pass rush. Our safeties aren't as good, but I think we improved at vorner. Our special teams probably improved a TON, which is really overlooked. I don't think we're a ton better but I do think we're better .

Having a punter that can you net 10 - 20 more yards on each kick is absolutely huge. It literally cost us the AFCC game. 

(05-03-2023, 10:50 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Well the Homer in me says we've upgraded the team. We upgraded two of our deficiencies. Our OL and our pass rush. Our safeties aren't as good, but I think we improved at vorner. Our special teams probably improved a TON, which is really overlooked. I don't think we're a ton better but I do think we're better .

I dont know how we can sit here and objectively say our safties aren't as good. 

(05-03-2023, 10:53 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I dont know how we can sit here and objectively say our safties aren't as good. 

Bates was a top 10-15 safety and Bell was really good. Dax has potential, sure, but he's not proven to be as good as either one of them and Scott is supposedly around Bell's level. So, objectively, you really can't say that our current safeties are better or equal to what we had last year. They may end up being that way, but CURRENTLY, you can NOT say they're equal or better.

On defense, the front 7 is better. The secondary will have growing pains, but they got younger and more athletic.

On offense, the OLINE is better and our receiver depth is better.

Our overall depth will be better up and down the roster.

Is it better right this moment? NO. The guys who left were very very strong players at year's end and veterans who can still play at a high level.

I voted YES, however, because the CEILING for This group is a lot higher and I think the guys they brought in and the rookies, along w Carman at RT will be better by mid season.

DJ Turner Ceiling > Eli Apple
Battle Ceiling > Von Bell at worst
Murphy Ceiling > Hendrickson
Dax Ceiling > Bates
Jones/ Yoshi (yeah, I nicknamed him that) Ceiling > Taylor/Irwin
New Punter Ceiling > Old Punter
Orlando Brown is better than Jonah
Healthy Carman is better RT than Collins

The above doesn't even take into consideration the depth these guys will create by either moving incumbants down or providing that depth themselves.

I think the Bengals ceiling with this group is one of those with the potential to be a GOAT type team if healthy. This roster's potential is top shelf from the ground up and I think these guys are all going to be crushing that by mid season.a

Improved:
1) OT. A lot
2) Punter. A lot.
3) DE Significantlty.
4) WR Significantly.
5) CB. Slightly.
6) PR. Slightly.

Same.
1) DT/NT. Same 5 guys.
2) LB. Same top 5.
3) IOL. Same top 5.
4) PK Same.
5) LS. Same.
6) KR. Same.

Wash.
1) TE. Smith for Hurst is a wash, maybe a slight downgrade due to durability. But getting Sample back healthy is a slight upgrade to last year's #2 (Wilcox). Asiasi is the same #3. Wilcox coukd still return.
2) QB. QB2 unsettled, but Allen soelled doom if he played. Could get better.

Uncertain.
1) RB. Depends on how Brown does. Pass pro likely got worse, but if the OL is better, it may matter less. But got more juice, for sure.

Worse
1) S. More speed. Less experience. I think Hill will be fine for Bates, eventually. More upside. More speed. More worried about Scott/Battle for Bell Like RB, more juice with Hill, Scott, Anderson, & Battle. We'll see how they do.

Of course, a lot of other teams got better, too.

I think by years end they will be better, but not so much early on. The safeties and secondary in general may take a few games to gel. I think the offense will be better right away, especially if Brown turns into a decent pass protector. I also think Williams or Carman will be an upgrade at RT over Collins. Depth at WR will be better too. TE is the only position that may be a bit weaker though.

Some ofit depends on how you view 2022 Chido. Are you comparing to healthy/pre-Halloween Chido, or what we had to end the year?

(05-03-2023, 10:43 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Overall, I'd say a push or slightly worse. I think the OL will end up being an upgrade, but how much depends on what happens at RT. RB room is a slight downgrade as Perine was a very dependable RB. TE is a push but there are some health concerns. I think CB and S are clear downgrades. We lost both guys in the back-end, Chido is coming off of a torn achilles which are notorious for sapping athleticism. Apple is gone, who was very dependable. There is a lot of young talent in the DB room and the potential is high, but I don't think we are going to see that pay off immediately.

A lot of unknowns with the current team. However, if I was forced to pick who would win in a best of 7/5/whatever series, I would say 2022 wins.

Is TE a push though with Irv Smith instead of Hurst?
Smith's career YPC is 9.4, Hurst's is 9.7. Hurst's was even higher (10.4) prior to coming to Bengals.
Irv Smith isn't really any better than Hurst athletically, tested about the same in most drills, if not worse, back when they were coming into the league in 2018 (Hurst) and 2019 (Smith).
But Smith is also 2 inches shorter and 20 lbs lighter than Hurst now (back when they were both entering the league, Hurst was 8 lbs heavier).

I don't honestly see Irv Smith being even a push when compared to Hurst.
Feels like a downgrade to me.

(05-03-2023, 11:03 AM)BengalBob Wrote: On defense, the front 7 is better.  The secondary will have growing pains, but they got younger and more athletic.

On offense, the OLINE is better and our receiver depth is better.

Our overall depth will be better up and down the roster.

Maybe so but if we can get ranked somewhere between 12-15 in sacks/hits/pressures the secondary will be better. Plenty more 2nd/3rd and longs.

(05-03-2023, 10:46 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: With what we know - I think the team is overall better.

The biggest question mark is at safety - its impossible to tell if its going to be better or worse because we literally don't know what we have.

Dax Hill could be this monster play maker and could actually be an upgrade over Bates or Bell.

I think this is a fair take.

I do think Scott is a worse safety than Bell.

And, INJURIES are always the wildcard. Some player(s) will unfortunately get injured.

On paper, it's close to a push though I'd say overall.

At best they are treading water this off-season... which kinda sucks because the 2023 schedule gives the Bengals a very good shot at controlling the AFC and the 1 Seed. (AFC South, NFC West scheduled opponents)

I think some guys will be much better players this year than last. Carman, Ossai, CTB, & Carter are four that were much better at the end of the year than at the start.

The biggest improvement needs to be DL. Adding Murphy, along with the hopeful developments of Carter and continued developing improvement of Sample will hopefully add that inside push the defense desperately needs on passing downs.