(06-08-2023, 09:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I assume you're talking to those disagreeing with your graph who are pumping him up. I agree Volson was below average at his best last year.

It's all I've ever said. Do you feel otherwise?

No, not at all. The graph depicts him as being below average at best. He improved as the season went on but never quite crossed that line.

(06-08-2023, 04:09 PM)Sled21 Wrote: That makes no sense to me. You can point out reasons a guy might be bad, like playing next to a guy that was hurt or just not very good. But if someone is playing next to a guy that is hurt (Williams) and still does not allow many sacks or pressures, that makes his play even better than it looks. 

Only if you don't actually watch the games. 

(06-08-2023, 02:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Some of you ***** need to get your hate meter checked. It's not my fault if your memories don't match what actually happened. 

BTW, Heyward was still throwing him around in the 2nd game.

Just stop. Not cool Rfaulk. Check your meter, mine is fine and you are one of my fave posters. Don't get mad man.

(06-08-2023, 09:13 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: No, not at all. The graph depicts him as being below average at best. He improved as the season went on but never quite crossed that line.

Sorry for saying your graph didn't mean shit BTW. Forgot it was you.

I don't put much stock in PFF anyways, you guys very well could be right about Volson not being decent.

Still think he has upside and will play better in his sophomore year...

i just dont see it but iv been wrong before

(06-08-2023, 10:13 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Only if you don't actually watch the games. 

I've missed maybe 2 since 1968....

(06-08-2023, 11:32 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sorry for saying your graph didn't mean shit BTW. Forgot it was you.

I don't put much stock in PFF anyways, you guys very well could be right about Volson not being decent.

Still think he has upside and will play better in his sophomore year...

No need to apologize. The graphs weren’t PFF grades, but pressure data aggregated by PFF. That is PFFs bread and butter, data aggregation. I don’t care for their grades, either. I only used RBLK grade because I didn’t know anything else to use.

There’s nuance to the conversation. Volson started off very poorly, but improved as the season went on. By the time the season ended, he was still a below average player, but only slightly so. However, he had been on an upward trend. That’s positive news. If he can do that to some degree in 2023, then he is going to be fine. I don’t think anyone here is saying that he won’t improve, we are just saying that he wasn’t very good in 2022. However, he did improve and can continue to do so.

(06-09-2023, 09:04 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: No need to apologize. The graphs weren’t PFF grades, but pressure data aggregated by PFF. That is PFFs bread and butter, data aggregation. I don’t care for their grades, either. I only used RBLK grade because I didn’t know anything else to use.

There’s nuance to the conversation. Volson started off very poorly, but improved as the season went on. By the time the season ended, he was still a below average player, but only slightly so. However, he had been on an upward trend. That’s positive news. If he can do that to some degree in 2023, then he is going to be fine. I don’t think anyone here is saying that he won’t improve, we are just saying that he wasn’t very good in 2022. However, he did improve and can continue to do so.

Awesome post KillerGoose. Cannot disagree with anything you said at all. Just hoping Volson becomes what Orlando Brown Jr is saying.

Very well could happen, like you said, he improved as the season went on after playing poorly early and that was with a hobbled Jonah 
Williams next to him. With a much bigger, healthy OBJ that sure should help his growth at LG.

(06-06-2023, 01:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Going from North Dakota State to a starter in the NFL in one year is one heck of a jump and Cordell didn't look like he was
overwhelmed at all last year and even had moments of domination against some of the best DT's in the league. Expecting a
big time leap in his play in his sophomore season especially with a LT like Orlando Brown next to him that doesn't get pushed
around like Jonah does.

I'm really interested to see how Brown does. I was sicking of watching Jonah get overpowered all the time, but the knock on Brown is he struggles with speedsters.

(06-09-2023, 10:56 PM)thompson19osu Wrote: I'm really interested to see how Brown does. I was sicking of watching Jonah get overpowered all the time, but the knock on Brown is he struggles with speedsters.

I think Brown is a better fit for Joe.

(06-10-2023, 09:19 AM)SladeX Wrote: I think Brown is a better fit for Joe.

I agree, Joe has said pressure from the outside doesnt bother him.  It is a long way around Brown.  

(06-09-2023, 09:04 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: No need to apologize. The graphs weren’t PFF grades, but pressure data aggregated by PFF. That is PFFs bread and butter, data aggregation. I don’t care for their grades, either. I only used RBLK grade because I didn’t know anything else to use.

There’s nuance to the conversation. Volson started off very poorly, but improved as the season went on. By the time the season ended, he was still a below average player, but only slightly so. However, he had been on an upward trend. That’s positive news. If he can do that to some degree in 2023, then he is going to be fine. I don’t think anyone here is saying that he won’t improve, we are just saying that he wasn’t very good in 2022. However, he did improve and can continue to do so.

And that’s a great explanation and correct

(06-09-2023, 10:56 PM)thompson19osu Wrote: I'm really interested to see how Brown does. I was sick of watching Jonah get overpowered all the time, but the knock on Brown is he struggles with speedsters.

Same here, should be interesting. Still it is a long way for those speedsters to go around Orlando Brown, instead of just bullying Jonah 
right into Burrow like we saw last year and it was sickening to behold. I know he was dealing with injury but the dude doesn't have much
of an anchor. Orlando Brown does and is big and strong and stays healthy (knock on wood).

(06-10-2023, 09:19 AM)SladeX Wrote: I think Brown is a better fit for Joe.

Most definitely and Joe is a better fit for Brown than Mahomes with his quick trigger. Should be the perfect fit.

(06-10-2023, 09:32 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I agree, Joe has said pressure from the outside doesnt bother him.  It is a long way around Brown.  

Yep, if the interior plays well and the RT gets figured out good luck defending this Offense.

I don't know for sure how much of Jonah's issues last season were related to his kneecaps but he definitely lost whatever ability to anchor he had. This resulted in him getting constantly beat to the inside and bull rushed. This in turn gave Volson problems because getting beat inside puts the Guard on a swivel. It's actually an issue I have with Jonah at RT unless he shows he has a real anchor - it will put Cappa on a swivel. TBH I'd almost prefer Carman at RT even if everyone is healthy provided he shows the anchor he showed in his limited LT reps. If our Tackles are not getting beat inside this is going to be a mauling OL.

(06-10-2023, 03:21 PM)Joelist Wrote: I don't know for sure how much of Jonah's issues last season were related to his kneecaps but he definitely lost whatever ability to anchor he had. This resulted in him getting constantly beat to the inside and bull rushed. This in turn gave Volson problems because getting beat inside puts the Guard on a swivel. It's actually an issue I have with Jonah at RT unless he shows he has a real anchor - it will put Cappa on a swivel. TBH I'd almost prefer Carman at RT even if everyone is healthy provided he shows the anchor he showed in his limited LT reps. If our Tackles are not getting beat inside this is going to be a mauling OL.

One of the Bengals 'experts' on Twitter provided a video of every sack attributed to Jonah.  Volson was the primary cause on at least 3 of those (Perine was on 1).  

I would seriously guess that Jonah was compensating for the MVC rookie much more than he was Jonah.

Was reading about a podcast with Orlando, Munoz, and Dan Hoard I believe in the Athletic. Wow Brown is such a breath of fresh air. Talk about engaged. He seems motivated to the max. Not individual wise team wise. Just can’t seem to temper my enthusiasm for this OL. It’s like your second car. Most didn’t get a great one for their first one but the second much better. I really think this offense with this line is going to be spectacular

Getting a bit tired of the back and forth here.

First off, Volson was an above average ROOKIE, slightly below average vs VETS.
Look at his first three games and compare them to the last 3, his arrow is pointing UP.

What else we know is that his Floor appears to be that of a slightly below avg Vet at this time. Since he was able to show improvement last year, then the odds are he will continue to improve and push him into the Avg Guards group or possibly better by the end of the year as well.

I can understand being split on him, but you have to keep him and give him the shot to show improvement, and if he doesn't, then Bengals have options (Ford/Collins).

(06-11-2023, 01:25 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Getting a bit tired of the back and forth here.

First off, Volson was an above average ROOKIE, slightly below average vs VETS.
Look at his first three games and compare them to the last 3, his arrow is pointing UP.

What else we know is that his Floor appears to be that of a slightly below avg Vet at this time. Since he was able to show improvement last year, then the odds are he will continue to improve and push him into the Avg Guards group or possibly better by the end of the year as well.

I can understand being split on him, but you have to keep him and give him the shot to show improvement, and if he doesn't, then Bengals have options (Ford/Collins).

Well, that was apparent with your dramatic use of the CAP LOCKS feature.

WTS, back and forth is what makes this board. 

(06-11-2023, 03:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well, that was apparent with your dramatic use of the CAP LOCKS feature.

WTS, back and forth is what makes this board. 

At least when i post, i am not posting just to boost my count like Fred. 

He's an ascending second year player and he's shown he's go the moxie to stick. He's not going anywhere no matter what anyone thinks. We need players like him in order to offset the big contracts we will have. I'm actually starting to not enjoy this board anymore. 

(06-11-2023, 04:23 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: At least when i post, i am not posting just to boost my count like Fred. 

He's an ascending second year player and he's shown he's go the moxie to stick. He's not going anywhere no matter what anyone thinks. We need players like him in order to offset the big contracts we will have. I'm actually starting to not enjoy this board anymore. 

I agree that Volson is an ascending player, and also feel that they coaches, as well as his fellow line mates have complete confidence in him.  Heck, I think that I may have been his most vocal fan on these boards since he was drafted.

To bolded:  Fred hasn't been around for a while, so rather irrelevant to bring him up as an example.  As for not enjoying the board, that is your personal choice, but I will remind that it is the offseason and many folks are just trying to keep conversations going.  Next week should be great with mandatory minicamp, and then 5 weeks later actual camp begins and there will be tons to talk about.