(06-11-2023, 11:11 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The bone spur is not the problem. It is the result of the problem.

The problem is I have high arches and have spent a lifetime of rucking and jumping out/off of things. 

One DR told me I was built like a thoroughbred who made his living as a plow horse. 

(06-12-2023, 02:28 PM)bonesaw Wrote: I don't really think he should be at ota's.  I'm just salty 99 percent of fans gave him a pass when his agent said he wanted a trade.  Had he been a WR everyone would've callled him a diva.  So now I feel I gotta call him a diva every chance I can since most gave him a pass

Im not sure I agree with most giving him a pass, seems like many on here and on Twitter, that a lot of fans are being kind of nasty about the trade request and not wanting him to be on the team, much less start.

IMHO, his trade request was very reasonable and respectful.   Divas WRs dont usually ask for trades because they are beaten out, it is almost always for more money.  As this is Jonah's contract year his request made sense to me. 

(06-11-2023, 10:30 PM)casear2727 Wrote: You are fooling yourself if you think the coaches have Carman as the front runner, assuming Jonah is healthy and expected to be on the roster.   

You are also extremely misguided if you want to blame his back on Carman's unpreparedness.  He has had maturity and lazy issues, he has had them since HS and also in college.   I fully expect him to be over those.  But there is zero evidence to suggest Carman is better than Jonah or that the coaches prefer Carman over Jonah.   The exact opposite exists.

As to your knock on the PFF scores comparing Jonah and Carman vs KC, you can ignore their rating but you cannot dismiss the fact that Jonah gave up zero Hits, zero Hurries and zero Pressures, while Carman gave up 1, 2, & 3.

Well, we did replace Jonah at LT and Jonah HAS had problems staying healthy and Jonah currently is not at OTA's and Carman is.

I find this to be a head start. We will see once mandatories and TC who is the front runner. Also conveniently leaving out the 2 penalties
Jonah had against KC shows your bias towards the man.  He did play well though in that game, you are correct. 

Enjoying the debate Casear, you do make good points, I just hope the best man wins the RT job and they play well for us.

(06-10-2023, 03:54 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Just an FYI for everyone praising Carman's great KC game...

Carman VS KC:  OVR 62.3.  RBLK. 54.4.  PBLK.  64.7.  HIT.  1.  HURRIES.  2.   PRESSURES.   3

Week 13 vs KC:
Jonah VS KC:  OVR 71.3.  RBLK. 67.3.  PBLK.  72.0.  HIT.  0.  HURRIES.  0.   PRESSURES.   0


There is zero doubt Jonah played better vs KC this past season.  Recency bias perhaps?

Jonah has played LT for 4 years in the NFL including last year.  Carman was thrown out there in the playoffs with little experience at LT in the NFL after Williams went down and played good.  Just posting numbers doesnt tell the whole story.  Carman is far from great but he played good given his little opportunities.

(06-12-2023, 10:00 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Wasn't the same team?   What does this even mean?   KC was simply skating in Week 13?  That does not make any sense to me whatsoever.  KC had a one game lead over the Bills at the time but Buffalo owned the tie breaker.


Value to extend pieces?  Jonah's salary is baked in and what extension is more important than winning a SB, with the understanding Burrow is underway regardless?

You guys are stanning hard for Carman but he is absolutely the underdog, IMHO.

Doesn't matter if it is a one game lead, it is human nature that, even at the professional level, a more desperate team is tougher.  That AFCCG was after three straight losses to Cincy, and at home.  

I guess I also can't explain the point well that Carman, if he plays well, increases the chances of extending Tee (or others) by having more cash to give NOW as a bonus so their cap hit isn't as much down the road when Chase and Burrow's deals really escalate.  

I don't really like cap discussions anyways. 

(06-12-2023, 10:02 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I would take 2 penalties > Burrow being hit even once, not to mention the hurries and pressures.

Those penalties put them behind in down and distance and made a big impact on the game.  We differ on their significance.  

(06-10-2023, 11:42 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The anchor is a serious concern for me at RT.  It is a concern at LT, but you deal with more speed guys there and fewer bullrushers.  

I wouldn't say that Jackson has a head start, though, as Jonah will be given every opportunity to be the starter at RT.  I am just holding out hope that some team needs a LT desperately and they are willing to do a third round pick (or higher) for him.  The compensatory pick argument is weak to me as they are based on contract dollars and that pool has been so watered down with the additional compensatory picks for minority hires, etc.  And that pick wouldn't be until the 2025 draft, not 2024.  

Bottom line:  IMHO, Jonah is the RT barring some great trade offer from a desperate team.  If that is how they roll, I will fully support him, but I feel a lot better with Collins and Carman as the backups this year over Adeniji and Smith.  

This is my feeling. I don't really get the "dig your heels in an either bash or support a player regardless. I want the best players playing, period. I expect the coaches to make those decisions. If someone is on the roster, I support them and if they can take, or keep, a starting gig, then so be it.

Jonah is at camp this week even though he still has not been cleared for full participation. He has been rehabbing incorporating RIGHT side moves. He says he hasn’t played right tackle since his freshman year of college.

(06-11-2023, 05:00 PM)casear2727 Wrote: It is not bias for me, it is trust. 

You are trusting a kid that:
- came in out of shape, has had some maturity issues
- couldn't win a spot for two years including getting beat out by a 4th round rookie from a 1AA school
- admitted he struggles on the right side
- has never played RT
- his great game vs KC was not nearly as good as Jonah's game vs KC in the same season

I'm trusting the guy that:
- was a 1st Rd pick and #1 rated OT in his draft
- locked in a starting spot Day 1 - never been beat out
- has started 3 seasons in the NFL & still very young
- is considered so much better than Carman by the coaches that they chose him with a bad knee over Jackson
- has actually played RT in the SEC

Little bit of revisionist history going on here:
Carman put off back surgery so he could play in the National Championship game, then came in post surgery. He was out of shape for sure, but you can't just disregard his back injury. 
Yes he had maturity issues, he was still a kid. 
Jonah, on the other hand (and this is not bashing Jonah, if he wins the spot so be it) was a first round pick who did not even make it through OTA's without a season ending injury, so locking a starting spot on day 1 is a pretty good stretch.
His second season he played all of 10 games before going on injured reserve again with a knee injury. So he played 10 games in his first two seasons. Never been beaten out, but is out A LOT for injury. 
Then last year he dislocated both kneecaps. What makes you think his knees are not going to be a recurring problem???

Jonah all in on the RT move. Good to hear.

https://www.bengals.com/news/jonah-williams-on-verge-of-being-cleared-for-training-camp-with-knee-i-think-is-

(06-13-2023, 08:54 AM)jj22 Wrote: Jonah all in on the RT move. Good to hear.

https://www.bengals.com/news/jonah-williams-on-verge-of-being-cleared-for-training-camp-with-knee-i-think-is-

Just saw this. He really never had another option. He is going to be paid handsomely for a year and out depth is going to be superb with carman and collins (eventually) coming off the bench. Not to mention our other additions. I hope this is the year that, while we have the depth, we don’t need it.

(06-13-2023, 08:59 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Just saw this.  He really never had another option.  He is going to be paid handsomely for a year and out depth is going to be superb with carman and collins (eventually) coming off the bench.  Not to mention our other additions.  I hope this is the year that, while we have the depth, we don’t need it.

Jonah's not dumb. He knows if he puts a good season on tape at RT, his value goes up exponentially as a player who can play either side, thus doubling his chances of being either re-signed or signed somewhere else.

He’s ready to go and engaged

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/report-jonah-williams-returns-to-cincinnati-for-mandatory-minicamp

(06-13-2023, 10:42 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: He’s ready to go and engaged

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/report-jonah-williams-returns-to-cincinnati-for-mandatory-minicamp

Great news. 

(06-13-2023, 08:59 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Just saw this. He really never had another option. He is going to be paid handsomely for a year and out depth is going to be superb with carman and collins (eventually) coming off the bench. Not to mention our other additions. I hope this is the year that, while we have the depth, we don’t need it.

I posted after you. Didn’t see you had. But competition there is great. Those guys have a lot riding

(06-13-2023, 08:54 AM)jj22 Wrote: Jonah all in on the RT move. Good to hear.

https://www.bengals.com/news/jonah-williams-on-verge-of-being-cleared-for-training-camp-with-knee-i-think-is-

Great to hear

Jonah Williams doing rehab on first day of #Bengals minicamp pic.twitter.com/RIcmaSAq3y

— Richard Skinner (@Local12Skinny) June 13, 2023

(06-13-2023, 07:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Those penalties put them behind in down and distance and made a big impact on the game.  We differ on their significance.  

We won that game.

(06-13-2023, 08:52 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Little bit of revisionist history going on here:
Carman put off back surgery so he could play in the National Championship game, then came in post surgery. He was out of shape for sure, but you can't just disregard his back injury. 
Yes he had maturity issues, he was still a kid. 
Jonah, on the other hand (and this is not bashing Jonah, if he wins the spot so be it) was a first round pick who did not even make it through OTA's without a season ending injury, so locking a starting spot on day 1 is a pretty good stretch.
His second season he played all of 10 games before going on injured reserve again with a knee injury. So he played 10 games in his first two seasons. Never been beaten out, but is out A LOT for injury. 
Then last year he dislocated both kneecaps. What makes you think his knees are not going to be a recurring problem???

No one knows how injuries will work out.

I am just telling you guys that there is a difference in the talent and experience of these 2 players.  If Carman wins RT I welcome everyone to come at me let me know they were correct.   But I would bet my house that Jonah, if cleared to play and still on the roster, is the starting RT and there will be zero hesitation by the coaches to do so.  


He’s also all in on a move to right tackle: “"I'll be happy to be a contributor on a team where I have so many great teammates. l love everyone in the room, love the coaches, love the fans. I'm stoked."

(06-13-2023, 12:47 PM)casear2727 Wrote: No one knows how injuries will work out.

I am just telling you guys that there is a difference in the talent and experience of these 2 players.  If Carman wins RT I welcome everyone to come at me let me know they were correct.   But I would bet my house that Jonah, if cleared to play and still on the roster, is the starting RT and there will be zero hesitation by the coaches to do so.  


He’s also all in on a move to right tackle: “"I'll be happy to be a contributor on a team where I have so many great teammates. l love everyone in the room, love the coaches, love the fans. I'm stoked."

If I had to bet right this minute on who's going to be our starting RT for game one I'd bet Williams as well. But my bet would be more like $10 

There's a lot of peels to this onion. Carman has had his issues for sure. But he did come on pretty strong at the end of last season and it wouldn't totally blow me away if he won the starting RT spot or LG. When and if Collins comes back there's also that. 

I remember a couple talking heads really tooting Cody Ford's horn. Now that would shock me. I can't imagine Adenji or Smith starting at RT.

The only thing I can't help but wonder is how seriously did Williams burn his bridges with the trade request?