(08-03-2023, 11:37 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It would ultimately come down to what "sacrifice" means.
The main determining factor will be the cap percentage each of them will take up, reducing the amount of remaining cap to allocate to the rest of the team.

You have other impactful guys coming up for extensions in the next few years as well:
- Even McPherson (how long have we wanted a long-term kicker, especially one that we don't have to worry about having the leg to make a 50 yarder consistently?)
- Ted Karras
- DJ Reader
- BJ Hill (will Carter take that jump this year or next?)
- Logan Wilson
- Alex Cappa
- Jonah Williams
- La'el Collins

You're going to have at least a couple OL to worry about and probably 2 if not 3 of the Front 7 on the defense.

This is my personal opinion, but I think it's easier to draft a good WR2 and have him contribute quickly than it is finding good OL/DL and contribute quickly.

Of all those guys listed, I think only Reader could maybe get a 1 year extension, but doubtful. 

Other than that I think only Cappa and Wilson will be getting resigned. Maybe Karras if he is cheap. 

(08-03-2023, 12:01 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If you wait a couple years to extend Chase, that's the same as saying you're not extending Chase, because the relationship will be over.

Doesn't he have a couple years still on his rookie contract? Everything I have seen from the team has said they are keeping all 3 and
especially Burrow and Chase. Chase will probably end up being the highest paid WR in the league when it is his time. Cannot imagine 
that hurting our relationship with him.

(08-03-2023, 09:32 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Signing all 3 isn't the big concern for me. It's who will they end up allowing walk to be able to accommodate for those big contracts.
Is a WR2 more important than a CB, pass rusher, or OT? 

Same, need to keep our trenches and Corners strong.

Big year if he doesnt get cheap shotted and is forced to leave early and miss multiple games. Which seems to be a pattern

(08-03-2023, 11:37 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It would ultimately come down to what "sacrifice" means.
The main determining factor will be the cap percentage each of them will take up, reducing the amount of remaining cap to allocate to the rest of the team.

You have other impactful guys coming up for extensions in the next few years as well:
- Even McPherson (how long have we wanted a long-term kicker, especially one that we don't have to worry about having the leg to make a 50 yarder consistently?)
- Ted Karras
- DJ Reader
- BJ Hill (will Carter take that jump this year or next?)
- Logan Wilson
- Alex Cappa
- Jonah Williams
- La'el Collins

You're going to have at least a couple OL to worry about and probably 2 if not 3 of the Front 7 on the defense.

This is my personal opinion, but I think it's easier to draft a good WR2 and have him contribute quickly than it is finding good OL/DL and contribute quickly.

You make great points. And I’m not disagreeing with the validity or rationale. But if Joe, Tee, and Chase take less money than their market value to make it work then it’s all moot. Ownership will sign all 3. It’s what Joe wants. End of story. Again I’m not arguing the validity of what you are saying. I’m just stating where I think we are headed. JMO they aren’t risking making Joe unhappy and if all 3 agree to reasonable salaries it’s what is going to happen. Could it be the wrong decision? Sure it could. But today at least we don’t know that signing all 3 to favorable contracts won’t work either.

(08-03-2023, 12:21 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Not unless it's a contract year....

It's always a contract year for several guys.

(08-03-2023, 01:21 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: You make great points. And I’m not disagreeing with the validity or rationale. But if Joe, Tee, and Chase take less money than their market value to make it work then it’s all moot. Ownership will sign all 3. It’s what Joe wants. End of story. Again I’m not arguing the validity of what you are saying. I’m just stating where I think we are headed. JMO they aren’t risking making Joe unhappy and if all 3 agree to reasonable salaries it’s what is going to happen. Could it be the wrong decision? Sure it could. But today at least we don’t know that signing all 3 to favorable contracts won’t work either.

Of course it's not unreasonable if all 3 take less than market value, or structure to make it work. 

That remains to be seen though. Why hasn't Burrow or Higgins been announced yet, if it's so open and closed?

(08-03-2023, 12:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Doesn't he have a couple years still on his rookie contract? Everything I have seen from the team has said they are keeping all 3 and
especially Burrow and Chase. Chase will probably end up being the highest paid WR in the league when it is his time. Cannot imagine 
that hurting our relationship with him.

If you are a proven very good or elite player on a rookie contract, and your team doesn't extend you when you become eligible, it's generally considered a lack of faith or respect. Or a lack of having them in your long-term plans.

2019:
Deebo Samuel
AJ Brown
DK Metcalf
Diontae Johnson
Terry McLaurin
Hunter Renfrow

All WRs who got extensions after their 3rd year. Metcafl, Samuel, and McLaurin all did some form of hold-out/hold-in. AJ Brown wasn't getting his from the Titans, so he forced them to trade him and he got one with the Eagles.

A "you'll get yours in a couple years" promise while other guys get paid instead isn't worth the same as having a couple ten million in guarantees worth of reassurance.

It's the same reason why Burrow is getting an extension this offseason (along with Herbert and Hurts) despite having a few years left on his contract. Meanwhile Jonathan Taylor is wanting to be traded due to lack of extension talk. If a guy has proven himself to be very good, and you want the relationship to be good, you need to give him an extension once he is eligible.

Expecting all three to take discounts is wishful thinking and a tad naive.

They are in a cutthroat business and their career has a very short shelf life and could end on the next play.

They might all say the right things but you can bet all of their agents are trying to get the absolute top-of-the-market contract for all of them.

(08-03-2023, 01:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Of course it's not unreasonable if all 3 take less than market value, or structure to make it work. 

That remains to be seen though. Why hasn't Burrow or Higgins been announced yet, if it's so open and closed?

Joe has refused to discuss his contract yet when asked about being able to keep everyone he does comment. He says I think we can keep everyone. IMO that’s telling. But dealing with 3 agents and players can’t be an easy process. Joe wants all 3. Bet he gets his way

(08-03-2023, 02:03 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If you are a proven very good or elite player on a rookie contract, and your team doesn't extend you when you become eligible, it's generally considered a lack of faith or respect. Or a lack of having them in your long-term plans.

2019:
Deebo Samuel
AJ Brown
DK Metcalf
Diontae Johnson
Terry McLaurin
Hunter Renfrow

All WRs who got extensions after their 3rd year. Metcafl, Samuel, and McLaurin all did some form of hold-out/hold-in. AJ Brown wasn't getting his from the Titans, so he forced them to trade him and he got one with the Eagles.

A "you'll get yours in a couple years" promise while other guys get paid instead isn't worth the same as having a couple ten million in guarantees worth of reassurance.

It's the same reason why Burrow is getting an extension this offseason (along with Herbert and Hurts) despite having a few years left on his contract. Meanwhile Jonathan Taylor is wanting to be traded due to lack of extension talk. If a guy has proven himself to be very good, and you want the relationship to be good, you need to give him an extension once he is eligible.

Great points as usual. Cannot disagree with any of this TLL, well said, reps.

(08-03-2023, 12:46 PM)Garrus Wrote: Of all those guys listed, I think only Reader could maybe get a 1 year extension, but doubtful. 

Other than that I think only Cappa and Wilson will be getting resigned. Maybe Karras if he is cheap. 

Fair. The intent of me listing these guys to have them specifically get re-signed, but rather those will be open positions.
Bengals won't be able to put as much money toward these other positions if they are putting so much toward QB and two WRs.

If you listen to the comments from various people including the Bengals organization, Burrow is not taking a discount. He is going to go after everything he can get so expect 53 million +. Burrow saying he believes they can keep all three together is just talk. He isnt the one that has to manage all the contracts and salary cap. What would you expect Burrow to say? I want to be the highest paid player in the NFL so if the team cant extend other players, thats not my fault?

If Burrow goes after the max he can get, that will be a signal to everyone else on the team. Why would Tee or anybody else take less if Joe is taking everything he can get? Especially for these other guys not getting anywhere near the money Burrow will. You think Tee will say, I might be able to make 20 million but I will take 18 million so Burrow can have his 53 million contract? Not happening

(08-03-2023, 08:06 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: If you listen to the comments from various people including the Bengals organization, Burrow is not taking a discount.  He is going to go after everything he can get so expect 53 million +.   Burrow saying he believes they can keep all three together is just talk.  He isnt the one that has to manage all the contracts and salary cap.   What would you expect Burrow to say?  I want to be the highest paid player in the NFL so if the team cant extend other players, thats not my fault?  

If Burrow goes after the max he can get, that will be a signal to everyone else on the team.  Why would Tee or anybody else take less if Joe is taking everything he can get?  Especially for these other guys not getting anywhere near the money Burrow will.  You think Tee will say, I might be able to make 20 million but I will take 18 million so Burrow can have his 53 million contract?  Not happening

Largely agree with your post, but Tee is looking more at $25m/yr which sounds like a ton but won't be top-5 when the 2023 season starts (CeeDee Lamb will get more and Justin Jefferson will likely become the highest paid WR in the league). Tee's agent, Mulugheta, is also the agent for Deshaun Watson, Jessie Bates, and Derwin James. 

(08-03-2023, 01:11 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Big year if he doesnt get cheap shotted and is forced to leave early and miss multiple games. Which seems to be a pattern

Every Stoolers game....

(08-01-2023, 01:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: What is crazy is HOW young Tee actually is and he still might be growing. If we are going to extend him, now is the time before
he really blows up this year. I also foresee this year being his breakout year.

I love Tee, and was in the skeptical camp of "Can't Pay Them All", but I really think the way he complements Chase, and can make those red zone leaping grabs, that Tee should be extended.  

The Bengals were very smart to draft Jones (a steal in the 4th, IMHO) as that #3 WR could be VERY busy with teams likely doubling Chase AND Tee.  Boyd was set to have a huge game against KC before injured, so I think the Bengals had a plan to attack that.  FWIW, I think Irv Smith, Jjr. could be huge here as well.  He moves REALLY well.  

I also love the insurance that Tee is a true #1 WR and can carry the load if Chase were dinged up.  Lastly, Tee seems to play his best in the biggest moments.  All that adds up to a guy that we need to keep.  

(08-06-2023, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I love Tee, and was in the skeptical camp of "Can't Pay Them All", but I really think the way he complements Chase, and can make those red zone leaping grabs, that Tee should be extended.  

The Bengals were very smart to draft Jones (a steal in the 4th, IMHO) as that #3 WR could be VERY busy with teams likely doubling Chase AND Tee.  Boyd was set to have a huge game against KC before injured, so I think the Bengals had a plan to attack that.  FWIW, I think Irv Smith, Jjr. could be huge here as well.  He moves REALLY well.  

I also love the insurance that Tee is a true #1 WR and can carry the load if Chase were dinged up.  Lastly, Tee seems to play his best in the biggest moments.  All that adds up to a guy that we need to keep.  

All true, and I guess Irv Smith has really been embraced and could have a big year and help underneath big time. I think Katie will 
figure out a way to keep everybody. We will probably get the Burrow and Tee extensions done before the season starts and wait on 
DJ Reader who knows. Still want to keep DJ as well, with the way the draft went and us not drafting a NT I expect him to also get a 
deal. Just reading the tea leaves here.

From everything I have seen, we ARE going to extend Tee no matter what BigZo says. So true about Tee is a #1 in case Chase goes
down and he is clutch as you say which is the deciding factor to me. You have to be able to rely on the players you pay the big money.

Tee Higgins is reliable. At least when he is not hurt, that is my only pause with him, he gets banged up quite a lot, more than Chase.

(08-06-2023, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I love Tee, and was in the skeptical camp of "Can't Pay Them All", but I really think the way he complements Chase, and can make those red zone leaping grabs, that Tee should be extended.  

The Bengals were very smart to draft Jones (a steal in the 4th, IMHO) as that #3 WR could be VERY busy with teams likely doubling Chase AND Tee.  Boyd was set to have a huge game against KC before injured, so I think the Bengals had a plan to attack that.  FWIW, I think Irv Smith, Jjr. could be huge here as well.  He moves REALLY well.  

I also love the insurance that Tee is a true #1 WR and can carry the load if Chase were dinged up.  Lastly, Tee seems to play his best in the biggest moments.  All that adds up to a guy that we need to keep.  

“Never on this level,” Smith said, according to Geoff Hobson of Bengals.com. “This is the best coaching staff I’ve been around. I put a lot of time and effort into getting better in the offseason and they’ve seen that and it’s a blessing.”

And offensive coordinator Brian Callahan spoke on this topic too, going as far as saying Smith indeed brings a different skill set than his predecessors.

“We try to call things guys like. That tends to make it work. That tends to make a good play,” Callahan said. “Irv is good in space. He’s different than the tight ends we’ve had before. He has real ability to separate and win after the catch.”

(08-06-2023, 01:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: ...We will probably get the Burrow and Tee extensions done before the season starts and wait on 
DJ Reader who knows. Still want to keep DJ as well, with the way the draft went and us not drafting a NT I expect him to also get a 
deal. Just reading the tea leaves here...

We need to extend Reader.  We dont need anymore Cleveland Halloween type games where teams can run it down our throat if we dont have Reader on the team.  I dont think you can say we will just replace him with someone in the draft.  Its not that easy.  Reader is the best run stopper in the NFL. We need to extend him a couple of years unless he just wants way too much money.

(08-06-2023, 02:51 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: We need to extend Reader.  We dont need anymore Cleveland Halloween type games where teams can run it down our throat if we dont have Reader on the team.  I dont think you can say we will just replace him with someone in the draft.  Its not that easy.  Reader is the best run stopper in the NFL.  We need to extend him a couple of years unless he just wants way too much money.

Completely agree, if I had to pick between keeping Tee or DJ I go with DJ. I think we will keep both though with the way Katie is 
running things now. There is nothing I hate more than my Defense getting ran over, Reader can single handedly shut the run down.

(08-06-2023, 03:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Completely agree, if I had to pick between keeping Tee or DJ I go with DJ. I think we will keep both though with the way Katie is 
running things now. There is nothing I hate more than my Defense getting ran over, Reader can single handedly shut the run down.

All you have to do is look at the Cleveland games last year.  Reader missing the 1st game we get ran all over for 172 yards and blown out 32-13.  2nd game Reader is back Cleveland doesnt even get half the yards they did their first game at 71 total rushing yards and just 10 points