(08-06-2023, 02:51 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: We need to extend Reader.  We dont need anymore Cleveland Halloween type games where teams can run it down our throat if we dont have Reader on the team.  I dont think you can say we will just replace him with someone in the draft.  Its not that easy.  Reader is the best run stopper in the NFL.  We need to extend him a couple of years unless he just wants way too much money.

I am 100% in Camp Reader, too, but I have no idea what his value will be.  His agent will look at ridiculous DT money paid to guys that have pass rush, and try to make a case for him being the best interior pass rusher on the Bengals (He is).  But it is his run defense that is so stellar and that fits 100% with how you have to play the teams in the AFC North.  

I also love his demeanor.  Tough as nails, no BS.  

(08-06-2023, 03:28 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: All you have to do is look at the Cleveland games last year.  Reader missing the 1st game we get ran all over for 172 yards and blown out 32-13.  2nd game Reader is back Cleveland doesnt even get half the yards they did their first game at 71 total rushing yards and just 10 points

Yes, I cannot believe some are even open to the thought of DJ Reader leaving. We don't have a player that could replace him.

Without Tee I still think we can win a Super Bowl. I cannot say the same thing without DJ.

(08-06-2023, 05:26 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am 100% in Camp Reader, too, but I have no idea what his value will be.  His agent will look at ridiculous DT money paid to guys that have pass rush, and try to make a case for him being the best interior pass rusher on the Bengals (He is).  But it is his run defense that is so stellar and that fits 100% with how you have to play the teams in the AFC North.  

I also love his demeanor.  Tough as nails, no BS.  

He is a bit older than the guys like Dexter Lawrence and such and is not a known pass rusher and he doesn't play a ton of snaps.

This should drive his price down a bit. We should be able to afford him. If Tee makes this impossible then I say let Tee go, but that is me.

(08-06-2023, 06:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: He is a bit older than the guys like Dexter Lawrence and such and is not a known pass rusher and he doesn't play a ton of snaps.

This should drive his price down a bit. We should be able to afford him. If Tee makes this impossible then I say let Tee go, but that is me.

I also think while Reader is a great fit for this defensive scheme, he wouldnt work as well in other schemes.  He is not the best pass rusher which is what a lot of teams are looking for.  As you said he doesnt play as many downs as some of the other elite D-linemen plus he is getting older so I dont see a bunch of teams wanting to give him a huge contract.  Im sure there would certainly be interest from other teams but I dont see Reader getting a huge increase due to his style of play.  He is a run stuffer. Most teams want the elite pass rushers for elite money.

(08-06-2023, 10:23 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I also think while Reader is a great fit for this defensive scheme, he wouldnt work as well in other schemes.  He is not the best pass rusher which is what a lot of teams are looking for.  As you said he doesnt play as many downs as some of the other elite D-linemen plus he is getting older so I dont see a bunch of teams wanting to give him a huge contract.  Im sure there would certainly be interest from other teams but I dont see Reader getting a huge increase due to his style of play.  He is a run stuffer. Most teams want the elite pass rushers for elite money.

Spot on, DJ fits here in this scheme and isn't known for his pass rushing prowess. Elite pass rushers as you say get the elite money, not the 
run stoppers even if they are extremely valuable. What is awesome is Zach Carter is looking great, put on 20 pounds of muscle and is throwing
IOL around in Camp. We have been needing that interior pass rusher to go along with DJ and BJ Hill. Carter could be this guy for us.

Iv got 2 good ones guys



How well would Yoshi have to play for us to consider him as a replacement for Tee and to let Tee walk?



Second, is there a stat line Tee could get to get him in Jamarr Chase range, money wise?

(08-09-2023, 06:55 PM)Housh Wrote: Iv got 2 good ones guys



How well would Yoshi have to play for us to consider him as a replacement for Tee and to let Tee walk?



Second, is there a stat line Tee could get to get him in Jamarr Chase range, money wise?

Don't think there will be any one player who can replace Tee for the Bengals. I think it'll have to be like the Chiefs route where you instead have 3 inexpensive solid contributors who make up for it with more quality depth at the position.


I think if you have to ask if a guy can reach the Tyreek/Adams/Jefferson/Chase level and pay, he won't. I think those guys are the type of guys where you just know and it's not even a question. Same way I think Jaylen Waddle, DeVonta Smith, and Amon-Ra St Brown are in that next category down after those very peak guys.

(08-09-2023, 06:55 PM)Housh Wrote: Iv got 2 good ones guys



How well would Yoshi have to play for us to consider him as a replacement for Tee and to let Tee walk?



Second, is there a stat line Tee could get to get him in Jamarr Chase range, money wise?

There are about 16 receivers, currently, in the league that are as good or better than tee Higgins. One of them resides on the bengals. No one else, on the bengals (currently), is bringing to the table the productivity of Higgins.

(08-06-2023, 06:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, I cannot believe some are even open to the thought of DJ Reader leaving. We don't have a player that could replace him.

Without Tee I still think we can win a Super Bowl. I cannot say the same thing without DJ.

Nailed it

(08-09-2023, 06:55 PM)Housh Wrote: Iv got 2 good ones guys



How well would Yoshi have to play for us to consider him as a replacement for Tee and to let Tee walk?



Second, is there a stat line Tee could get to get him in Jamarr Chase range, money wise?

Honestly I feel like the guy has a better chance of winning the 2023 Golden Binns award than he does of replacing Tee Higgins.

(08-10-2023, 10:34 PM)jason Wrote: Honestly I feel like the guy has a better chance of winning the 2023 Golden Binns award than he does of replacing Tee Higgins.

I dunno, Irwin seems to have a stranglehold on the Golden Binns.

(08-10-2023, 10:49 PM)Whatever Wrote: I dunno, Irwin seems to have a stranglehold on the Golden Binns.

Irwin is actually good in games tho. It’s someone who kills in practice but turns invisible in games

(08-11-2023, 11:05 AM)Housh Wrote: Irwin is actually good in games tho. It’s someone who kills in practice but turns invisible in games

The Golden Bins has traditionally just been for the most over hyped back half of the roster WR(Auden Tate, for example).

Case in point, Irwin dressed for 12 games last year including the playoffs and was held to under 20 receiving yards in 6 of them, had only 4 games with multiple receptions, and had 50+ receiving yards only once. Despite that, many are calling him the clear WR4 and a roster lock.

(08-03-2023, 08:06 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: If you listen to the comments from various people including the Bengals organization, Burrow is not taking a discount.  He is going to go after everything he can get so expect 53 million +.   Burrow saying he believes they can keep all three together is just talk.  He isnt the one that has to manage all the contracts and salary cap.   What would you expect Burrow to say?  I want to be the highest paid player in the NFL so if the team cant extend other players, thats not my fault?  

If Burrow goes after the max he can get, that will be a signal to everyone else on the team.  Why would Tee or anybody else take less if Joe is taking everything he can get?  Especially for these other guys not getting anywhere near the money Burrow will.  You think Tee will say, I might be able to make 20 million but I will take 18 million so Burrow can have his 53 million contract?  Not happening

Of course Burrow is going to be the highest paid player in the league very soon.  That doesn't mean that those other guys can't be kept.  It's all a matter of how the deal is structured.  I don't think for one minute that Burrow isn't going to look at the overall structure of his deal and try to make it so he can keep as much of the team around him as he can.

The cap is going to go up roughly $20 million per year.  There's plenty of room to keep everyone during this window.  The team has been very smart about how they've done deals lately, if they continue to do that, there won't be any issues keeping the core of the team together.  The numbers aren't that prohibitive.

(08-11-2023, 01:17 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Golden Bins has traditionally just been for the most over hyped back half of the roster WR(Auden Tate, for example).

Case in point, Irwin dressed for 12 games last year including the playoffs and was held to under 20 receiving yards in 6 of them, had only 4 games with multiple receptions, and had 50+ receiving yards only once. Despite that, many are calling him the clear WR4 and a roster lock.

But Irwin actually has contributed unlike Binns. 

We will see if Iosivas contributes this year, if he does not, he will win the Golden Binns award this year. I expect Charlie Jones to at
least contribute on ST's as a Punt Returner and be an upgrade.

(08-11-2023, 01:26 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Of course Burrow is going to be the highest paid player in the league very soon.  That doesn't mean that those other guys can't be kept.  It's all a matter of how the deal is structured.  I don't think for one minute that Burrow isn't going to look at the overall structure of his deal and try to make it so he can keep as much of the team around him as he can.

The cap is going to go up roughly $20 million per year.  There's plenty of room to keep everyone during this window.  The team has been very smart about how they've done deals lately, if they continue to do that, there won't be any issues keeping the core of the team together.  The numbers aren't that prohibitive.

Nice post, expect what you say here to happen Hammerstripes. Burrow will be the highest paid player in the league but the contract 
will be structured in order to keep the team competitive, Katie knows how to crunch the numbers and the Pratt, Wilson deals and the 
Mixon restructure show this.

(08-11-2023, 01:17 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Golden Bins has traditionally just been for the most over hyped back half of the roster WR(Auden Tate, for example).

Case in point, Irwin dressed for 12 games last year including the playoffs and was held to under 20 receiving yards in 6 of them, had only 4 games with multiple receptions, and had 50+ receiving yards only once. Despite that, many are calling him the clear WR4 and a roster lock.

Irwin and Tate might be a somewhat fair comparison actually.

Tate put up 40 receptions for 575 yards (14.4 YPR) in 2019, which was the only year he really got any opportunity due to injuries. That was on 647 offensive snaps.
Across Tate's 4 seasons, he put up 61 receptions for 799 yards (13.1 YPR) on 1009 offensive snaps.

Irwin just finished his 4th season in the league.
His best season, he had 15 receptions for 231 yards (15.4 YPR) on 287 offensive snaps in the regular season. It's in the same realm as what Tate did in 2019.
In his 4 seasons, he's put up 18 rec for 270 yards (15.0 YPR) on 384 offensive snaps in the regular season.

Tate actually outproduced Irwin at the same point in their careers, but Irwin looks about as productive as Tate when given the same amount of opportunity.
It's ok for maybe a WR5/6, but I agree with you he's not a preferred WR4 who could come in and do well if one of the starters is hurt for a long period of time. There's still a drop off in ability.

Irwin probably has the upper hand to make the roster, but I dunno if I'd say he has a lock on getting offensive snaps over Iosivas outside, at least not after a couple months of Iosivas getting acclimated to the team.

(08-11-2023, 01:35 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: But Irwin actually has contributed unlike Binns. 

We will see if Iosivas contributes this year, if he does not, he will win the Golden Binns award this year. I expect Charlie Jones to at
least contribute on ST's as a Punt Returner and be an upgrade.


Nice post, expect what you say here to happen Hammerstripes. Burrow will be the highest paid player in the league but the contract 
will be structured in order to keep the team competitive, Katie knows how to crunch the numbers and the Pratt, Wilson deals and the 
Mixon restructure show this.

Binns had 277 receiving yards in his one year.  Irwin had 250 combined between the regular season and the playoffs.

(08-11-2023, 01:41 PM)Whatever Wrote: Binns had 277 receiving yards in his one year.  Irwin had 250 combined between the regular season and the playoffs.

I forgot Binns had that many yards, thought it was much less than that, but you conveniently left out TD's.

Irwin can score TD's and that is a big difference.

we gotta keep tee higgins

(08-12-2023, 12:38 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: we gotta keep tee higgins

This is true even if Yoshi is a future pro bowler.

Tee is just that good.