(08-23-2023, 12:35 PM)phil413 Wrote: It would be radical, but I'd want Alec Peirce back from them even if it means a pick goes out.  Then you have Mixon with his lowered number either being unhappy if he is dealt or benched. Maybe you get a lower pick back for him.

I get that, I do like Pierce, was wanting us to draft him.

Why do we think Mixon is a #1 back? I wonder how he'd do as a backup. He's average. Even fi we think the run game is not an "integral" part of this offense, those 3rd and 1s and 3rd and 2s and 4th and 1s that we're passing on are ridiculous. With a better than average run game Burrow already has a ring. Mahomes let his run game win the superbowl and Brady put up some trash stats in some of his SB wins. Living and dying in the air is not going to be good enough IMO, it's just getting us close. It's a shame our team is so talented and have a below average run game.

(08-23-2023, 11:51 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Why do we think Mixon is a #1 back? I wonder how he'd do as a backup. He's average. Even fi we think the run game is not an "integral" part of this offense, those 3rd and 1s and 3rd and 2s and 4th and 1s that we're passing on are ridiculous. With a better than average run game Burrow already has a ring. Mahomes let his run game win the superbowl and Brady put up some trash stats in some of his SB wins. Living and dying in the air is not going to be good enough IMO, it's just getting us close. It's a shame our team is so talented and have a below average run game.

The reason our run game has been below average is because our offensive line has been below average. Mixon is not Barry Sanders but he's certainly not a scrub and it wouldn't have mattered what RB we put back there behind the Olines we've had the last couple playoff runs. 

We saw what happened to Mahomes when his Oline was decimated in 2021. He destroyed the Eagles defense in the air last year so you can't say the run game won them that superbowl.

Burrow has has numerous chances to win games in the playoffs and failed. Most of that, like for any QB, comes down to the Oline giving any sort of protection which ours has continually failed to do so far.

James Rapien mentioned that the Bengals were in on multiple RBs during free agency, but they didn't want to spend what the RBs were asking. When it came to the draft, their boards for RB did not fall like they expected, just like with the TEs.

I firmly believe Charbonnet would've been the pick in the 2nd if he was there.

(08-24-2023, 12:09 AM)TheFan Wrote: The reason our run game has been below average is because our offensive line has been below average. Mixon is not Barry Sanders but he's certainly not a scrub and it wouldn't have mattered what RB we put back there behind the Olines we've had the last couple playoff runs. 

We saw what happened to Mahomes when his Oline was decimated in 2021. He destroyed the Eagles defense in the air last year so you can't say the run game won them that superbowl.

Burrow has has numerous chances to win games in the playoffs and failed. Most of that, like for any QB, comes down to the Oline giving any sort of protection which ours has continually failed to do so far. Also

Exactly. Mixon is still at top running back. No back can get yardage when they are constantly hit behind the line of scrimmage.  I look for Joe to have a much better year this year

(08-24-2023, 01:52 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: James Rapien mentioned that the Bengals were in on multiple RBs during free agency, but they didn't want to spend what the RBs were asking. When it came to the draft, their boards for RB did not fall like they expected, just like with the TEs.

I firmly believe Charbonnet would've been the pick in the 2nd if he was there.

He’s wrong about the free agency part if he said that. They wanted to keep Perine. If they’d taken someone in FA they couldn’t have signed him. Mixon’s dead cap was 5 million so they weren’t dumping him. He is right after Perine left in FA they took a hard look at the draft to replace Perine. Nobody fell their way.

(08-24-2023, 12:09 AM)TheFan Wrote: The reason our run game has been below average is because our offensive line has been below average. Mixon is not Barry Sanders but he's certainly not a scrub and it wouldn't have mattered what RB we put back there behind the Olines we've had the last couple playoff runs. 

We saw what happened to Mahomes when his Oline was decimated in 2021. He destroyed the Eagles defense in the air last year so you can't say the run game won them that superbowl.

Burrow has has numerous chances to win games in the playoffs and failed. Most of that, like for any QB, comes down to the Oline giving any sort of protection which ours has continually failed to do so far. Also

And exactly why they never considered moving on from Mixon.

(08-24-2023, 08:09 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Exactly. Mixon is still at top running back. No back can get yardage when they are constantly hit behind the line of scrimmage.  I look for Joe to have a much better year this year

It's kind of interesting when you look back at 2021 when Mixon made the Pro Bowl, and then 2022.

His YPT was 4.5 in 2021 and 4.6 last year.
He's essentially the same guy as when he made the Pro Bowl.
He just got less opportunities last year.

If Mixon can play for about the whole season and average 300+ touches again, I think he'll be at 1400+ yards from scrimmage again.
That's good for a starting RB in an era where more and more teams are going RBBC.

As you said, it's really up to the OL to block better in the run game if we were expecting to see an improvement in the running game.
Unfortunately, we've only seen a brief bit of Jonah and no other starting OL yet, so we don't know exactly how they might perform to start the year.
From what they've been touting in camp though, this is the most optimistic I've been with the OL since Whit left.

(08-24-2023, 08:09 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Exactly. Mixon is still at top running back. No back can get yardage when they are constantly hit behind the line of scrimmage.  I look for Joe to have a much better year this year

Joe was tied for 35th out of 41 qualifying rushers last year in yards after contact, and a few of the guys behind him are actually QB's.  He is not a top RB anymore.  He simply can't break tackles, make guys miss, or even get the edge on outside runs anymore.  

(08-24-2023, 01:09 PM)Whatever Wrote: Joe was tied for 35th out of 41 qualifying rushers last year in yards after contact, and a few of the guys behind him are actually QB's.  He is not a top RB anymore.  He simply can't break tackles, make guys miss, or even get the edge on outside runs anymore.  

Definitely true from what we saw last year and the worst part is Mixon was poor in pass protection on top of all this.

Hope he surprises me and plays like he did in the Panthers game all year this year. For some reason he just was so inconsistent 
in his running most of the year. With a better OL I expect him to be better this season, but not good enough to be considered a 
top RB.

(08-24-2023, 01:52 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: James Rapien mentioned that the Bengals were in on multiple RBs during free agency, but they didn't want to spend what the RBs were asking. When it came to the draft, their boards for RB did not fall like they expected, just like with the TEs.

I firmly believe Charbonnet would've been the pick in the 2nd if he was there.

I was hoping he was there, too.  Alas, he wasn't.  But, Mixon will do this year.  He restructured his contact.  I foresee him having a good year.  And, I still see us drafting a round 2-3 RB next year.

(08-24-2023, 03:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Definitely true from what we saw last year and the worst part is Mixon was poor in pass protection on top of all this.

Hope he surprises me and plays like he did in the Panthers game all year this year. For some reason he just was so inconsistent 
in his running most of the year. With a better OL I expect him to be better this season, but not good enough to be considered a 
top RB.

Well he was voted by his peers as the 5th best RB in the league by his peers just over a year ago. I think he’s still pretty good if his peers thought so a year ago.

(08-24-2023, 01:09 PM)Whatever Wrote: Joe was tied for 35th out of 41 qualifying rushers last year in yards after contact, and a few of the guys behind him are actually QB's.  He is not a top RB anymore.  He simply can't break tackles, make guys miss, or even get the edge on outside runs anymore.  

I definitely agree he's not a top 10 back and I remember calling for him to be relplaced last year. But I do wonder how skewed some of those statistics are. 

I think there's a difference between a back getting hit 3-5 yards down field with a head of steam and being able to move forward vs getting hit -2 to 1 yards of the LOS with little momentum like our backs were a lot of times. 

(08-24-2023, 10:15 AM)ochocincos Wrote: His YPT was 4.5 in 2021 and 4.6 last year.
He's essentially the same guy as when he made the Pro Bowl.

YPT?

He caught about 43% more passes this year on about 56% more targets than the year before to boost his YPT because I think every single RB averages more yards per catch than carry, so he's the same RB? Come on, Ocho.

2021: 2.3 Yards Before Contact/Rush
2022: 2.4 Yards Before Contact/Rush

2021: 1.9 Yards After Contact/Rush
2022: 1.3 Yards After Contact/Rush

2021: 14.6 Rushes Per Broken Tackle
2022: 26.3 Rushes Per Broken Tackle

2021: 114.8 QB Rating When Targeted
2022: 100.1 QB Rating When Targeted

(PFR numbers)

(08-24-2023, 08:09 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Exactly. Mixon is still at top running back. No back can get yardage when they are constantly hit behind the line of scrimmage.  I look for Joe to have a much better year this year

(08-24-2023, 07:14 PM)TheFan Wrote: I definitely agree he's not a top 10 back and I remember calling for him to be relplaced last year. But I do wonder how skewed some of those statistics are. 

I think there's a difference between a back getting hit 3-5 yards down field with a head of steam and being able to move forward vs getting hit -2 to 1 yards of the LOS with little momentum like our backs were a lot of times. 

Mixon got more yards per rush BEFORE contact in 2022 than he did in 2021.

(08-24-2023, 08:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Mixon got more yards per rush BEFORE contact in 2022 than he did in 2021.

Yea, I mean 0.1 is hardly statically significant. 

But weeks 1-8 he averaged 3.3 ypc with 1 yard after contact
And weeks 9-17 he averaged 5.1 ypc with 2.5 yards after contact

That's a pretty big difference. I don't think Mixon is a top 5 back but I don't think he's a bottom 5 back either like some act. We know he was battling an ankle injury during the early part of the year and it's just as much on the coaches as it is him for them continually running him out there to subpar results when injured.

(08-24-2023, 07:10 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Well he was voted by his peers as the 5th best RB in the league by his peers just over a year ago. I think he’s still pretty good if his peers thought so a year ago.

In a battle of opinion vs results, opinion loses every time. It's a waste of time to talk about what people talk about.

(08-24-2023, 10:15 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: In a battle of opinion vs results, opinion loses every time. It's a waste of time to talk about what people talk about.

An opinion of your opponents works for me 100% of the time.

(08-24-2023, 10:40 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: An opinion of your opponents works for me 100% of the time.

To each their own. Numbers on a page works for me. They tell the truth 100% of the time.

(08-24-2023, 11:08 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: To each their own. Numbers on a page works for me. They tell the truth 100% of the time.

You are right #28 offensive line by PFF. End of story.