It's definitely irresponsible to keep blaming the calf for the systemic issues the injury has exposed

(10-01-2023, 10:43 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Dude, it's the calf. 

He can't move in the pocket. He has nothing on his throws. He can't plant or drive the ball down field. It's effecting his other mechanics and he's not nearly as accurate. 

To think it's anything other than the calf is just crazy. Are you watching him out there? He's a sitting duck. Defenses will continue to game plan to blitz the shit out of him. At this point I'm more worried about him getting injured other than the calf. He can't escape pressure. It's irrisponsible as shit for ZT to keep running him out there. 

I think it is the calf as well, but Burrow still has plenty of zip on this throws. This is something that we can actually measure. I have gone through a handful of plays from the Titans game to do these calculations. Last year, Burrow's fastest pass that I found was a 56 MPH throw over the middle. This is pretty close to what some other sources have measured him, including this old pally post from predraft and this article that is unfortunately now paywalled. The article measures Burrow at 56 MPH. You can use the Wayback Machine to get around the paywall if you really want to read it.

Anyways, Burrow threw several passes yesterday clocking in between 52-54 MPH. They have plenty of velocity. My guess is going to be that the injury is affecting him mentally and he may be compensating with a mechanical change which is affecting his accuracy. 

(10-02-2023, 12:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's easy to look back in hindsight and say those sort of things.  At the onset of the season, most were assuming Joe was close to healthy, and that his condition would likely improve over the course of a few games.

It was obvious after the Cleveland game Burrow was still injured and not ready to be out on the field. I'm not sure why some of our fans thought his injury would improve by keeping him out there week after week getting smacked around by NFL defenses when after 5 weeks of not taking any hits he wasn't recovered.

Burrow is still injured? OK let's keep putting him out there in games. His injury will get better doing that to him. I've never understood why some of our fans thought that.

(10-02-2023, 01:42 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: It was obvious after the Cleveland game Burrow was still injured and not ready to be out on the field.  I'm not sure why some of our fans thought his injury would improve by keeping him out there week after week getting smacked around by NFL defenses when after 5 weeks of not taking any hits he wasn't recovered.

Burrow is still injured?  OK let's keep putting him out there in games.  His injury will get better doing that to him.  I've never understood why some of our fans thought that.

Like I said, it's easy to look back and say all of those things.  Hell, it looked pretty obvious that he shouldn't have played in the Cleveland game, but we didn't realize that until the game happeded, thus, in hindsight..  

Going into the opener the thought was that he'd just taken 5 weeks rest for a calf strain.  It appeared to be a minor thing at the time.  Even though he was held out of preseason games "as a precautionary measure", we still saw plenty of footage of him jogging and throwing, like he was going to be 100% by the opener.  Now one of two situations likely went down.  Either the team knew full and well how serious this injury was and they tried to downplay it, or Joe Burrow, one of the healthier and athletic people than 99.95% of people on this Earth simply didn't heal as quickly as prescribed.   

If we all had a collective time machine, I think we all agree, Burrow would have been IR'd before the season and we would probably be 0-4 right now.

Hindsight is 20/20.

What the Bengals now have to ask themselves is: do they tank the season and put Burrow on the IR now, let him recover and then, in week 8 or 9, when he comes back, hope that Browning/McCarron kept them close enough that a 9 game winning streak may get them a wild card spot? Or do they keep going with a clearly injured and debilitated Burrow and hope that he can squeak out a win or two in the next 4 weeks before, hopefully, returning to prime Burrow in the second half of the season and then we'd only need a 7 or 8 game winning streak to sneak into the playoffs as a wild card?

The third option is to just shut him down until 2024, but that's not a realistic possibility. These guys need to protect their jobs, after all, and shutting Burrow down would be an admission that they gloriously ****** up the injury management of their 275M QB, which is absolutely a fireable offense.

This pretty much sums up the offense at this point...and how limited everything is, from Joe's limitations to the scheme trying to account for those limitations...which they haven't done a very good job at.

Joe Burrow is the 1st QB in NFL history to attempt at least 150 passes in his team's first 4 games of a season, and average fewer than 5 yards per attempt on those passes. pic.twitter.com/yPKCPUCfWU

— ESPN Stats & Info (@ESPNStatsInfo) October 2, 2023

 

The shift should’ve been to an under center run/ play action game


If Burrow is telling coaches he doesn’t want to do play action the coaches need to grow some balls and tell him we can’t win any other way if he’s gonna play so ass

(10-02-2023, 02:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Like I said, it's easy to look back and say all of those things.  Hell, it looked pretty obvious that he shouldn't have played in the Cleveland game, but we didn't realize that until the game happeded, thus, in hindsight..  

I agree with the Cleveland game. Burrow said he was ready so you put him out there and see what he can do. After that game however, it was clear Burrow was still dealing with the calf injury. At this point 4 weeks in to the season, Burrow needs to rest and try to get better. It doesn't help him or the team being out there as the starting QB every week.

(10-02-2023, 02:38 PM)Housh Wrote: The shift should’ve been to an under center run/ play action game


If Burrow is telling coaches he doesn’t want to do play action the coaches need to grow some balls and tell him we can’t win any other way if he’s gonna play so ass

He can't go under center because when he drops back on the snap that puts a strain on the legs including obviously the calf muscle. This is why they always have him in shotgun taking the snaps, so he doesnt have to move.

(10-02-2023, 02:45 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: He can't go under center because when he drops back on the snap that puts a strain on the legs including obviously the calf muscle.  This is why they always have him in shotgun taking the snaps, so he doesnt have to move.

Then we shouldn't play him until he can play under center. It's so dumb we've been doing that. We can't win any games if we're playing high school football

(10-02-2023, 02:45 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: He can't go under center because when he drops back on the snap that puts a strain on the legs including obviously the calf muscle.  This is why they always have him in shotgun taking the snaps, so he doesnt have to move.

It's a different drop from under center granted, and that may be too much for him I guess, but he is dropping back out of shotgun. This notion that has spread around here that he doesn't move isn't accurate and is getting out of control. He is moving and can move within the pocket. He's carried out fake screens on runs last game which consisted of a quick step towards the outside receiver after the handoff to Mixon. 

(10-02-2023, 02:29 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: This pretty much sums up the offense at this point...and how limited everything is, from Joe's limitations to the scheme trying to account for those limitations...which they haven't done a very good job at.

Joe Burrow is the 1st QB in NFL history to attempt at least 150 passes in his team's first 4 games of a season, and average fewer than 5 yards per attempt on those passes. pic.twitter.com/yPKCPUCfWU

— ESPN Stats & Info (@ESPNStatsInfo) October 2, 2023

 

Burrow's stats this year are more akin to a rookie QB who is playing for a hopelessly bad franchise, rather than a guy who has put up MVP adjacent seasons.  Losing sucks, but when it comes to losing I extra hate seeing a QB in a loss with fewer than 250 or so yards and 0 Tds and 0 INTs.  Maybe this is just a holdover from the old days when we had to cope with a lot of losing, but if we get the L I'd much rather see a QB throw the damn ball and I'd rather see 1TD and 2+ INTs on the sheet than the dreaded 0 TD 0 INT stuff.

Scoring 3 points and having 0 INTs and a measly YPA is just boring and infuriating football.  Burrow has half of the INTs Mahommes has this season so far, so that's nice.  BUt yeah, this goes back to Burrow probably just being unable to physically play an interesting and effective game of football week in and week out this year so far.

Hindsight is 20/20 but if we're going to lose I'd rather see Browning go out there and chuck and duck.  Yet, we're 2 decent Burrow games away from going into the bye .500, so back to the wait and see.

(10-01-2023, 10:45 PM)swilson3828 Wrote: Not at all.  8-8 has gotten teams into the playoffs before with the wild card.  This team is 1-3, with 12 games remaining.  Would you rather have a half assed Burrow for the last 12 games or a totally healthy Burrow for the last 9-10 games?

I think Burrow just needs to sit the season. 6 weeks rest didn't heal him up not sure 2 -3 Weeks of rest is gonna do. 

(10-02-2023, 02:45 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: He can't go under center because when he drops back on the snap that puts a strain on the legs including obviously the calf muscle. This is why they always have him in shotgun taking the snaps, so he doesnt have to move.

I call BS


if he can play shotgun he can do the small movement it would take to hand the damn ball off to a RB under center. If this dude is this immobile then Zac Taylor needs to be fired for playing him at all.

Joe has gotta get out of his own head and be willing to do everything to win.

Even if that means doing something every NFL has done for 100 years and going under center.


I’m starting to get sour on Joe and Zac. You shouldn’t have to be begged to do play action. Play action is a NFL offensive staple and everyone does it. If THIS is the issue we are having with Joe then sit his ass.




I personally think Zac and Joe are idiots this season

(10-02-2023, 03:07 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I think Burrow just needs to sit the season. 6 weeks rest didn't heal him up not sure 2 -3 Weeks of rest is gonna do. 

Maybe, but I can already hear about how rusty he is since he hasn't played for 11 months to justify our 1-3 start in 2024.

(10-02-2023, 03:09 PM)Housh Wrote: I call BS


if he can play shotgun he can do the small movement it would take to hand the damn ball off to a RB under center. If this dude is this immobile then Zac Taylor needs to be fired for playing him at all.

Joe has gotta get out of his own head and be willing to do everything to win.

Even if that means doing something every NFL has done for 100 years and going under center.


I’m starting to get sour on Joe and Zac. You shouldn’t have to be begged to do play action. Play action is a NFL offensive staple and everyone does it. If THIS is the issue we are having with Joe then sit his ass.




I personally think Zac and Joe are idiots this season

Dropping back from under center is more of an explosive push off from the legs because QBs are trying to get back in their drop quick so that could be an issue.  I do agree given the circumstances Burrow shouldn't be out there because the offense is too limited with him.

(10-02-2023, 05:41 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Dropping back from under center is more of an explosive push off from the legs because QBs are trying to get back in their drop quick so that could be an issue.  I do agree given the circumstances Burrow shouldn't be out there because the offense is too limited with him.

At this point, with neither Joe or the modified offense being very effective, they might as well sit him until he can regain his mobility and be able execute the entire playbook again. 

(10-02-2023, 01:41 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I think it is the calf as well, but Burrow still has plenty of zip on this throws. This is something that we can actually measure. I have gone through a handful of plays from the Titans game to do these calculations. Last year, Burrow's fastest pass that I found was a 56 MPH throw over the middle. This is pretty close to what some other sources have measured him, including this old pally post from predraft and this article that is unfortunately now paywalled. The article measures Burrow at 56 MPH. You can use the Wayback Machine to get around the paywall if you really want to read it.

Anyways, Burrow threw several passes yesterday clocking in between 52-54 MPH. They have plenty of velocity. My guess is going to be that the injury is affecting him mentally and he may be compensating with a mechanical change which is affecting his accuracy. 

I don't think speed matters here is what matters his overall play after 4 games 2 tds less than 200 yards a game under 70% ranking , he is playing bad but does not seem himself but everyone it seems think he good enough to play

(10-02-2023, 09:03 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I don't think speed matters here is what matters his overall play after 4 games 1 tds less than 200 yards a game under 70% ranking , he is playing bad

(10-02-2023, 09:03 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I don't think speed matters here is what matters his overall play after 4 games 1 tds less than 200 yards a game under 70% ranking , he is playing bad

His injury is the reason for all this.