(11-14-2023, 11:38 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: In no way am I a ZT play calling "defender", but I think it's important to look at the context in which each game is called.

Against the Texans, we were down a TON of offensive personel. Chase was banged up and limited, no Higgins, Chase Brown, Charlie Jones, Yoshi missed 3/4 of the game. Callahan came out and said they didn't move Chase around much because of the lack of prep and practice time throughout the week.

Also, people want to complain about how we don't throw the ball "vertically" down the field. That's more on recievers getting open and Burrow finding them and pulling the trigger than it is on the "play calling".

My ONE criticism of Burrow is that his play style has become a bit conservative over the years. He doesn't push the ball until he needs to. Some of this is the by product of him having a good defense and him trusting it. You saw it against the Titans. After we got the initial lead he was super convservative and actually passed up taking chances on pretty wide open explosive plays to dump it off to the flat. In the second half he started pushing the ball because he needed to.

Again, people complain about "play calling" but you really do need to watch the film and understand the context of each game and play to understand just what is exactly going on.

You can perhaps see Burrow's lack of aggression in the below GIF. This is from the first drive, so this ended up not mattering but Joe misses a wide open Yoshi running down the field. The defense shows a two high look and I think Burrow moves of Yoshi too early. Andrei is at the very bottom of the screen. This is a well drawn up play, and a good call. Burrow just misses.

via GIPHY

(11-16-2023, 12:38 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: You can perhaps see Burrow's lack of aggression in the below GIF. This is from the first drive, so this ended up not mattering but Joe misses a wide open Yoshi running down the field. The defense shows a two high look and I think Burrow moves of Yoshi too early. Andrei is at the very bottom of the screen. This is a well drawn up play, and a good call. Burrow just misses.

via GIPHY

I don't know if Yoshi is actually part of the progression on that play. Because of the formation and never trying to work back toward the sideline it kinda looks like he's running a clear out route trying to get the safety to turn his hips and open up Boyd for the corner route. Burrow is reading the safety when he comes down Joe goes to the underneath. 

Don't get me wrong Burrow absolutely could have went outside of structure and hit Yoshi if he had seen how badly the corner played it. He's made that read and  throw before. 

(11-16-2023, 12:45 PM)Synric Wrote: I don't know if Yoshi is actually part of the progression on that play. Because of the formation and never trying to work back toward the sideline it kinda looks like he's running a clear out route trying to get the safety to turn his hips and open up Boyd for the corner route. Burrow is reading whe safety when comes down so he goes to the underneath. 

Don't get me wrong Burrow absolutely could have went outside of structure and hit Yoshi if he had seen how badly the corner played it. He's made that read and  throw before. 

Okay, that's interesting. I was figuring Burrow would be reading from high to low, starting with Yoshi --> Boyd --> Flat/Dump-off. 

(11-16-2023, 12:52 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Okay, that's interesting. I was figuring Burrow would be reading from high to low, starting with Yoshi --> Boyd --> Flat/Dump-off. 

Until Yoshi runs correct routes Burrow isnt going to look his way.   He gave him a chance early in the game and Yoshi made the wrong decision.  We know he has run  the wrong routes previously.  Hopefully Yoshi can get this aspect correct and we can see more from him than just scramble drills. 

(11-16-2023, 01:03 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Until Yoshi runs correct routes Burrow isnt going to look his way.   He gave him a chance early in the game and Yoshi made the wrong decision.  We know he has run  the wrong routes previously.  Hopefully Yoshi can get this aspect correct and we can see more from him than just scramble drills.

I hope as well: he came from Princeton, so we know he has the mental capacity to grasp the routes.

(11-16-2023, 12:52 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Okay, that's interesting. I was figuring Burrow would be reading from high to low, starting with Yoshi --> Boyd --> Flat/Dump-off. 

I think they were trying to clear out the zone and get the safeties head and hips turned toward the sideline with the Yoshi go route and the inside release for Boyd which pulled the linebacker away from the flat/checkdown. Burrow just doesn't see the Corner get caught peeking underneath and leaving Yoshi running wide open. 

Nice vid KillerGoose. Yeah, I agree with Synric that Iosivas was being used to open up the underneath routes, still, Burrow
did miss him and like Casaer said it is probably because of the miscommunication earlier.

- Completely disrespectful to Burrow for ZT to ask/think Browning could run the same high pass offense Joe does without a run game.

- Browning was a deer in headlights yesterday. McCarron is a vet with big game experience. This wouldn't be too big for him. Absurd Browning started or was allowed to continue to play. He clearly wasn't going to be the guy. You could see that the 1st series or two.

- 11 running plays yesterday was absolute buffoonery given the circumstances. Absolutely gross. Steelers ended with 15 mins more time of possession in a very close game where the Bengals QB looked like a baby deer. To not support Browning with the commitment to run was disgusting to watch.

Running the ball is supposed to wear the other team down, control the clock, and get easier as the game goes on. It's like waves against rock. Over time things open up... ZT with 11 rushes needs to be crucified by the local media for that.

Ima say this and i need everyone to know Iv turned a corner on Zac


I think he’s a solid coach but…..


Please tell me this mofo didn’t seriously believe Browning was good enough to run the offense he tried having him run Sunday….


Please tell me he ain’t that dense.


That should’ve been a 30 rush, 20 pass attempt game.



I like Zac but i am often overcome with the idea that he doesn’t get everything out of the offense he could and that he doesn’t have mastery of all the concepts on offense

(11-16-2023, 12:45 PM)Synric Wrote: I don't know if Yoshi is actually part of the progression on that play. Because of the formation and never trying to work back toward the sideline it kinda looks like he's running a clear out route trying to get the safety to turn his hips and open up Boyd for the corner route. Burrow is reading the safety when he comes down Joe goes to the underneath. 

Don't get me wrong Burrow absolutely could have went outside of structure and hit Yoshi if he had seen how badly the corner played it. He's made that read and  throw before. 

We won’t know but Joe has neglected the TE’s slightly. He’s probably neglecting Yoshi. And that’s not unusual until you prove yourself. So this isn’t some high criticism. Joey B was like this at LSU. All QB’s have their favorites.

(11-28-2023, 01:18 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: We won’t know but Joe has neglected the TE’s slightly. He’s probably neglecting Yoshi. And that’s not unusual until you prove yourself. So this isn’t some high criticism. Joey B was like this at LSU. All QB’s have their favorites.

This season? Because they suck. He made the last two a lot of money.

(11-16-2023, 12:45 PM)Synric Wrote: I don't know if Yoshi is actually part of the progression on that play. Because of the formation and never trying to work back toward the sideline it kinda looks like he's running a clear out route trying to get the safety to turn his hips and open up Boyd for the corner route. Burrow is reading the safety when he comes down Joe goes to the underneath. 

Don't get me wrong Burrow absolutely could have went outside of structure and hit Yoshi if he had seen how badly the corner played it. He's made that read and  throw before. 

We won’t know but Joe has neglected the TE’s slightly. He’s probably neglecting Yoshi. And that’s not unusual until you prove yourself. So this isn’t some high criticism. Joey B was like this at LSU. All QB’s have their favorites.

(11-28-2023, 01:20 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This season? Because they suck. He made the last two a lot of money.

Actually so far 56 receptions to TE vs 71 all last year. No question they aren’t as dynamic. But Joey B has never been a TE friendly QB. That’s not a knock and I do agree if we had a dynamite young TE like La Porta or Kincaid he would. That being said Joe is prejudiced and reliant on Tee & Jamar. Yoshi will have to earn his trust.

Browning only threw the ball 26 times, Burrow has only thrown less than that 3 times in his career and none since 2021. We didn't ask Browning to do what we ask Burrow to do.

(11-28-2023, 02:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Browning only threw the ball 26 times, Burrow has only thrown less than that 3 times in his career and none since 2021. We didn't ask Browning to do what we ask Burrow to do.

Lol what was the % of the time we threw though? You're just looking at the total numbers when we had am inept offense that couldn't stay on the field.

(11-28-2023, 03:13 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Lol what was the % of the time we threw though? You're just looking at the total numbers when we had am inept offense that couldn't stay on the field.

The ratio was a little over 2 to 1. I've seen many folks bring up "only ran 11 times" but didn't bring up we only had around 37 total offensive snaps. 

(11-28-2023, 06:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The ratio was a little over 2 to 1. I've seen many folks bring up "only ran 11 times" but didn't bring up we only had around 37 total offensive snaps. 

Yup, everything was bad. Too bad Zac couldn't figure out an offense that wasn't very QB reliant since we have a backup 

(11-28-2023, 03:13 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Lol what was the % of the time we threw though? You're just looking at the total numbers when we had am inept offense that couldn't stay on the field.

Too past it to look up, but I think I mention before:
We had one drive over 5 plays, and that ended in an interception. Pitiful.

(11-28-2023, 07:09 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yup, everything was bad. Too bad Zac couldn't figure out an offense that wasn't very QB reliant since we have a backup 

Why do QBs get paid so much money if coaches can just come up with schemes to win without them?

(11-29-2023, 03:44 PM)Bing Ghuls Wrote: Why do QBs get paid so much money if coaches can just come up with schemes to win without them?

Coaches get paid millions to adapt and scheme for what they have not just for if everything is perfectly in place