(12-03-2023, 10:32 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Dude I had to look up Matt cassel for you. I thought it was Matt Flynn. Brady tore his acl in week 1 in 08’ and the backup took over for the year. They made the playoffs. They also made the playoffs after Brady left for Tampa with the same scrub that’s in there this year. The pats have literally no good players left on that roster and it’s finally caught up to Belicheck.

I think it was heineke that took over for Mahomes a few years ago for a few games, but sorry man—I’m not gunna look it up for you.

The ravens backup started most of the second half of last year for the ravens, the ravens still made the playoffs and almost beat us in the playoffs. If not for that fumble we couldn’t do anything on offense.

Continue to make excuses all you want. Zac needs to do better. He coached two great games this year against the bills and 9ers. Very balanced games. Outside of that we haven’t had much balance and we haven’t done so well. He needs to do it on a weekly basis. Just look at the 9ers. Such a balanced, complete, and well coached team. Ravens too. Yes, any team will have a stinker here and there. But good teams learn and respond.

All I’m saying is Zac needs a more balanced approach that isn’t predictable. We’ve got the personnel to do it—as evidenced of the 9ers/bills games. He just needs to evolve the scheme a little and find more balance. Do that and develop the secondary/defense and next year we’re a lot better and burrow isn’t getting killed.

When you drop back 70% of the time it’s predictable and easy for the defense to tee off on the oline. It increases the risk of injury. A balanced and deceptive attack keeps the defense off balance and creates more space for the offense.its night and day when we come in with a great game plan and when we don’t. 2/11 games isn’t good enough. Elite teams do it just about every week.

Might wanna look that up

(12-03-2023, 10:13 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I don't want to discount what the Bengals did against the 49ers. We needed the win and we went into there house and took care of business. But let's also realize we caught them at a pretty good time. No Deebo and they seemed to be in a little bit of a slump at the time. The Bengals were playing pretty good. But isn't what all these arguments are about is whether it's Burrow making everyone better and whether a different playcaller could improve his game even more.

It’s about winning. Taylor went to 2 straight AFC titles, won one. Went to the Bengals first SB in what 35 years? He’s 3-1 vs KC and 2-0 vs Buffalo the last 2 years. I don’t really care about anything else. It’s trivial. Talent is in the equation and today the Pats were scoreless against the #23 ranked defense against scoring in the NFL. The Bengals were #8 in points per play the last 2 years. Saying it’s all Burrow is silly. Saying the OL hasn’t been a handicap is sillier.

(12-03-2023, 10:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Might wanna look that up

He might be up all night on the Mahomes backup too. He of course came to this discussion wielding a knife versus a machete lol.

(12-03-2023, 08:55 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Tom Brady tore his acl in 2008. Matt cassel was their qb all season and they ended up with an 11-5 season, good enough to make the playoffs. He went on to do nothing as that was his most successful season by far (under Belicheck).

The chiefs have won games with backup qbs without Mahomes.

The ravens made the playoffs with a scrub qb last year, and almost beat us in the playoffs as well.

Good coaches can still salvage a playoff birth with a backup qb.

The Bengals have invested a lot in the oline and have a lot of weapons on offense. Good coaching should allow them to make the playoffs and likely lose in the first round. Do I expect that to happen? No.

What I expect to happen is watching the 9ers vs ravens in the Super Bowl and hopefully the bengals reevaluate what winning football looks like.

Chiefs have not been winning with backups, mahomes missed maybe 3 games last 5 years, as for ravens they are 1-4 in playoffs since 2018, we have won 5 playoff games last 2 years, not the best comparison of late.

(12-03-2023, 10:32 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Dude I had to look up Matt cassel for you. I thought it was Matt Flynn. Brady tore his acl in week 1 in 08’ and the backup took over for the year. They made the playoffs. They also made the playoffs after Brady left for Tampa with the same scrub that’s in there this year. The pats have literally no good players left on that roster and it’s finally caught up to Belicheck.

I think it was heineke that took over for Mahomes a few years ago for a few games, but sorry man—I’m not gunna look it up for you.

The ravens backup started most of the second half of last year for the ravens, the ravens still made the playoffs and almost beat us in the playoffs. If not for that fumble we couldn’t do anything on offense.

Continue to make excuses all you want. Zac needs to do better. He coached two great games this year against the bills and 9ers. Very balanced games. Outside of that we haven’t had much balance and we haven’t done so well. He needs to do it on a weekly basis. Just look at the 9ers. Such a balanced, complete, and well coached team. Ravens too. Yes, any team will have a stinker here and there. But good teams learn and respond.

All I’m saying is Zac needs a more balanced approach that isn’t predictable. We’ve got the personnel to do it—as evidenced of the 9ers/bills games. He just needs to evolve the scheme a little and find more balance. Do that and develop the secondary/defense and next year we’re a lot better and burrow isn’t getting killed.

When you drop back 70% of the time it’s predictable and easy for the defense to tee off on the oline. It increases the risk of injury. A balanced and deceptive attack keeps the defense off balance and creates more space for the offense.its night and day when we come in with a great game plan and when we don’t. 2/11 games isn’t good enough. Elite teams do it just about every week.

The backup I knew was Matt Cassell I meant Jake Browning is not Matt Cassell. Sorry I wasn’t clearer

(12-03-2023, 10:37 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: It’s about winning. Taylor went to 2 straight AFC titles, won one. Went to the Bengals first SB in what 35 years? He’s 3-1 vs KC and 2-0 vs Buffalo the last 2 years. I don’t really care about anything else. It’s trivial. Talent is in the equation and today the Pats were scoreless against the #23 ranked defense against scoring in the NFL. The Bengals were #8 in points per play the last 2 years. Saying it’s all Burrow is silly. Saying the OL hasn’t been a handicap is sillier.

Well maybe we'll have to wait until this season is over. If we go winless without Burrow saying it's all him may be inaccurate but certainly won't be silly. 

(12-03-2023, 10:45 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well maybe we'll have to wait until this season is over. If we go winless without Burrow saying it's all him may be inaccurate but certainly won't be silly. 

I agree they shouldn’t go winless. If the culture is real. Of course Browning still an unknown

(12-03-2023, 10:40 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Chiefs have not been winning with backups, mahomes missed maybe 3 games last 5 years, as for ravens they are 1-4 in playoffs since 2018, we have won 5 playoff games last 2 years, not the best comparison of late.

Mahomes has not produced a TD in the first half tonight. and recently against Denver no TD’s the whole game. But Andy Reid’s a genius. Well he got fired at Philly because of QB play. Amazing how that works. He’s 1-3 vs Zac

(12-03-2023, 10:40 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Chiefs have not been winning with backups, mahomes missed maybe 3 games last 5 years, as for ravens they are 1-4 in playoffs since 2018, we have won 5 playoff games last 2 years, not the best comparison of late.

Mahomes has not produced a TD in the first half and recently against Denver no TD’s the whole game. But Andy Reid’s a genius. Well he got fired at Philly because of QB play. Amazing how that works. He’s 1-3 vs Zac

(12-03-2023, 10:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Might wanna look that up

See attached screenshots from google search. It happened exactly as I stated it.

(12-03-2023, 10:37 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: It’s about winning. Taylor went to 2 straight AFC titles, won one. Went to the Bengals first SB in what 35 years? He’s 3-1 vs KC and 2-0 vs Buffalo the last 2 years. I don’t really care about anything else. It’s trivial. Talent is in the equation and today the Pats were scoreless against the #23 ranked defense against scoring in the NFL. The Bengals were #8 in points per play the last 2 years. Saying it’s all Burrow is silly. Saying the OL hasn’t been a handicap is sillier.

I’m glad they went as far as they did the last couple years. But they haven’t been good enough to win it all. The offense hasn’t scored enough in the playoffs and has been mostly carried by the defense. They need to improve and if you don’t see that that’s cool. I’m just calling it how I see it.

(12-03-2023, 11:38 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: See attached screenshots from google search. It happened exactly as I stated it.

Can’t see what you linked but the Pats absolutely DID NOT make the playoffs with Matt Cassel that year. They went 11-5 but didn’t get it.

Just a reminder that it's Duke that picks the players and not Zac! Blaming Zac for personal issues is silly!

(12-03-2023, 10:13 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I don't want to discount what the Bengals did against the 49ers. We needed the win and we went into there house and took care of business. But let's also realize we caught them at a pretty good time. No Deebo and they seemed to be in a little bit of a slump at the time. The Bengals were playing pretty good. But isn't what all these arguments are about is whether it's Burrow making everyone better and whether a different playcaller could improve his game even more.

Not trying to be argumentative but when Bengals are in a slump it’s all Zac’s fault. But dare Shanahan be blamed when they are in a slump?

(12-03-2023, 10:40 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: He might be up all night on the Mahomes backup too. He of course came to this discussion wielding a knife versus a machete lol.

I’m not sure what to make of this comment but I do sense a lot of cognitive dissonance in your response. You are trying to argue my point that elite coaches are capable of making the playoffs with backup quarterbacks. But you are ignoring the evidence of two specific instances where backups were in for a large portion of the year for a team and they were still able to make the playoffs.

The chiefs situation I am remembering is when they had a backup come in for a few games when Mahomes was out and they kept winning. It was in the last couple years and I thought Heineke was who it was but I’m not going to waste time looking it up. I gave you two good examples as it is with the ravens and patriots.

Another example is the 9ers. They seem to win no matter who the qb is.

If you don’t think the remainder of the season is a good opportunity to evaluate Zac’s coaching ability then we can agree to disagree. I’d love to see him prove he’s an elite coach and make the playoffs this year without burrow.

(12-03-2023, 11:42 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Can’t see what you linked but the Pats absolutely DID NOT make the playoffs with Matt Cassel that year. They went 11-5 but didn’t get it.

I’m not sure why it didn’t show up. One of the screenshots showed them finishing with an 11-5 record. My bad for assuming that got them in. Crazy that didn’t!! Remarkable accomplishment though

(12-03-2023, 11:41 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I’m glad they went as far as they did the last couple years. But they haven’t been good enough to win it all. The offense hasn’t scored enough in the playoffs and has been mostly carried by the defense. They need to improve and if you don’t see that that’s cool. I’m just calling it how I see it.

Quick which team’s offense scored more average points per game from 22-23 ? Cincy or SF? It’d be Cincy . In the playoffs 21-22 Who scored 23.28 points a game and who 20.0 a game? That’d also be Cincy not SF.

(12-03-2023, 10:40 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Chiefs have not been winning with backups, mahomes missed maybe 3 games last 5 years, as for ravens they are 1-4 in playoffs since 2018, we have won 5 playoff games last 2 years, not the best comparison of late.

I might be mistaken on the chiefs.I apologize as I’m getting over a cold. Im probably just remembering one specific game where a backup came in and played well and they won. But I see teams like the 9ers, pats in the past, and ravens winning with backups. The Steelers are winning with a pretty average qb. Even the Vikings win a couple with Dobbs before he started throwing a bunch of picks. The offense is healthy now with Higgins back. Zac has an opportunity to prove that he can win without burrow.

My point is we are not moving the ball much on offense in the playoffs. They have all been pretty tight games besides the bills game. The offense is on Zac. He needs to draw up plays that are easier to execute because they are well designed and called at the right time so they aren’t predictable. Balance is a big part of that. There are times where we achieve that (9ers/bills), but too often we are predictable and it makes thing hard to execute.

(12-04-2023, 12:08 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I might be mistaken on the chiefs.I apologize as I’m getting over a cold. Im probably just remembering one specific game where a backup came in and played well and they won. But I see teams like the 9ers, pats in the past, and ravens winning with backups. The Steelers are winning with a pretty average qb. Even the Vikings win a couple with Dobbs before he started throwing a bunch of picks. The offense is healthy now with Higgins back. Zac has an opportunity to prove that he can win without burrow.

My point is we are not moving the ball much on offense in the playoffs. They have all been pretty tight games besides the bills game. The offense is on Zac. He needs to draw up plays that are easier to execute because they are well designed and called at the right time so they aren’t predictable. Balance is a big part of that. There are times where we achieve that (9ers/bills), but too often we are predictable and it makes thing hard to execute.

It was Chad Henne.  98 yard drive to win the game.

(12-03-2023, 11:50 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I’m not sure what to make of this comment but I do sense a lot of cognitive dissonance in your response. You are trying to argue my point that elite coaches are capable of making the playoffs with backup quarterbacks. But you are ignoring the evidence of two specific instances where backups were in for a large portion of the year for a team and they were still able to make the playoffs.

The chiefs situation I am remembering is when they had a backup come in for a few games when Mahomes was out and they kept winning. It was in the last couple years and I thought Heineke was who it was but I’m not going to waste time looking it up. I gave you two good examples as it is with the ravens and patriots.

Another example is the 9ers. They seem to win no matter who the qb is.

If you don’t think the remainder of the season is a good opportunity to evaluate Zac’s coaching ability then we can agree to disagree. I’d love to see him prove he’s an elite coach and make the playoffs this year without burrow.

It’s not a good comparison. Jake Browning has zero nfl experience except 1 game last week. The Bengals weren’t playing well. They were starting to. But if the OL wasn’t suspect then I’d agree they should win a few games. A lot obviously depends on how the OL plays the rest of the season. The 49ers that scoring offense is worse than ours in 21-22 in the regular season and post season? Full stop the 49ers have a better roster but yes Joe makes us on their level. So the teams are wired differently. Their OL and DL much better. And KC? Their OL and DL both higher ranked. So teams are all wired differently.