(06-04-2024, 11:13 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Superbowl rings between the 2 is also Apples to Oranges.

Yet the point made is apples to apples. Do you put 35ish% of your team cap into 2 players? 

KC chose not to do this when they let a WR better than Chase Walk. 

I don't think it will come to that % of the cap.

Chase has 2 years left on his current deal with cap hits of $9 and $21 million.  A 3 year, $105 mil extension brings the total AAV to 5 years, $135 mil. That's $27 mil per year.

(06-04-2024, 06:18 AM)casear2727 Wrote: The Vikings are required to put less than 30M in escrow for Jefferson's contract.  In fact, it may be closer to zero than 30M.

So they must have agreed to have the guarantee occur in phases then. Spotrac is not really clear did you find a better source?

(06-04-2024, 01:15 PM)Whatever Wrote: I don't think it will come to that % of the cap.

Chase has 2 years left on his current deal with cap hits of $9 and $21 million.  A 3 year, $105 mil extension brings the total AAV to 5 years, $135 mil. That's $27 mil per year.

I get that; it's why I said 2026. It's going to take some creative thinking on the Bengals part and it may include making Chase mad and franchizing him in 26.

As I said we will sign Chase but the blueprint for Plan B. has been proofed.

(06-03-2024, 10:26 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Jefferson is clearly #1 right now, but I do think it’s closer than some think. When they were both in the same offense Chase was better.

(06-03-2024, 10:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Obviously. Still think it would be about the same if they were on an NFL team together.

Agree, I wouldn't take JJ over Ja'Marr Chase. I think it is closer than some say. Both are great Receivers but I don't think that Chase has 
shown even close to what he can do yet and this year he should be in the Slot a ton more where he is a major mismatch against any D.

(06-04-2024, 01:16 PM)Joelist Wrote: So they must have agreed to have the guarantee occur in phases then. Spotrac is not really clear did you find a better source?

The way the escrow rule is written, it is actually not worded as being mandatory. In fact, it's pretty widely known that the Browns didn't meet it for the Deshaun Watson deal.

(06-03-2024, 02:36 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: 1) I hope this puts all those silly JJ to Cincy rumors to bed.

I am not optimistic. Are proponents the same folks who think their garden tools are spying on them for the government?

2) Chase should get less than Jefferson.

3) I fully expect Brown to carry $15 mil of space on the books all year for extensions that never happen. Just like last year. Tee. Reader. Chase. Etc.

Jeeeez Louise! Now I have to keep my damned garden tools under surveillance..It was bad enough just putting them in the shed after use and now this!  

(06-04-2024, 01:31 PM)Whatever Wrote: The way the escrow rule is written, it is actually not worded as being mandatory. In fact, it's pretty widely known that the Browns didn't meet it for the Deshaun Watson deal.

Source? Everything I have read says the NFL can require. If the NFL can require you have to assume they will require. I also found only one vague reference to a possibility that the Browns did not meet escrow, but the behavior of the other teams regarding guarantees after that deal seems more like they did meet it. 

It's an uncomfortable thought, but it might be worth thinking about what life would be like without Ja'marr or Tee. It's not a very likely outcome, but it should probably be considered.

26 mil is way too much for Tee through a the lens of last year's health and production. 35 or so for Chase is probably reasonable, but is it when you're paying a premium salary to a qb?

One thing I trust this team to do is draft receivers. Especially with early picks. It's taking much less time for these guys to adjust to the league as rookies. The rule of 3 years is a thing of the past for wrs. Are a couple of early round rookies going to be on the level of Tee and Ja'Marr? Certainly not. Are they going to be adequate when paired with a top 3 NFL qb? I would sure hope and expect so.

Not paying them also guarantees more resources to invest in the rest of the roster, You could sign another top end DT if need be. You could get a top corner in FA. Maybe even a OL if they somehow manage to continue to underperform after all these years.

Also, decent quality vet wrs aren't hard to find. Boyd was available forever. You can find pieces to surround the young guys with for budget prices.

I hope that Chase retires a Bengal. I think he's the best wr in the league in terms of overall capability. I just want them to keep an open mind if things start to look bleak. Losing two players like Higgins and Chase would be painful, but I'm not sure it's the death sentence to the Burrow era that some seem to think.

(06-04-2024, 01:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Agree, I wouldn't take JJ over Ja'Marr Chase. I think it is closer than some say. Both are great Receivers but I don't think that Chase has 
shown even close to what he can do yet and this year he should be in the Slot a ton more where he is a major mismatch against any D.

Both are elite. Jefferson has stats that put him in the trajectory of like top 5 of all time if he keeps them up.

But this year will be a different story for Jefferson. Who's throwing him the ball? Sam Darnold? JJ McCarthy? If I was to put money on it, I'd assume Chase had a better season in 2024.

I think if you polled NFL GM's half would take JJ and the other half Chase. They are 1a and 1b in the NFL. Well maybe Tyreek, but he's 6-7 years older.

(06-04-2024, 07:06 PM)samhain Wrote: It's an uncomfortable thought, but it might be worth thinking about what life would be like without Ja'marr or Tee.  It's not a very likely outcome, but it should probably be considered.  

26 mil is way too much for Tee through a the lens of last year's health and production.  35 or so for Chase is probably reasonable, but is it when you're paying a premium salary to a qb?  

One thing I trust this team to do is draft receivers.  Especially with early picks.  It's taking much less time for these guys to adjust to the league as rookies.  The rule of 3 years is a thing of the past for wrs.  Are a couple of early round rookies going to be on the level of Tee and Ja'Marr?  Certainly not.  Are they going to be adequate when paired with a top 3 NFL qb?  I would sure hope and expect so.

Not paying them also guarantees more resources to invest in the rest of the roster,  You could sign another top end DT if need be.  You could get a top corner in FA.  Maybe even a OL if they somehow manage to continue to underperform after all these years.  

Also, decent quality vet wrs aren't hard to find.  Boyd was available forever.  You can find pieces to surround the young guys with for budget prices.

I hope that Chase retires a Bengal.  I think he's the best wr in the league in terms of overall capability.  I just want them to keep an open mind if things start to look bleak.  Losing two players like Higgins and Chase would be painful, but I'm not sure it's the death sentence to the Burrow era that some seem to think.

I have no problem not paying both players but you need at least one of them to be on the team long term.

(06-04-2024, 07:09 PM)TCUBengal34 Wrote: Both are elite. Jefferson has stats that put him in the trajectory of like top 5 of all time if he keeps them up.

But this year will be a different story for Jefferson. Who's throwing him the ball? Sam Darnold? JJ McCarthy? If I was to put money on it, I'd assume Chase had a better season in 2024.

I think if you polled NFL GM's half would take JJ and the other half Chase. They are 1a and 1b in the NFL. Well maybe Tyreek, but he's 6-7 years older.

No doubt TCUBengal. JJ has been balling no question, but Ja'Marr could do the same with a healthy Burrow and playing more in the Slot
where he had his best game of his career against the Chiefs. I am betting on Ja'Marr having the bigger year this season as you say, look 
who is throwing JJ the ball...

The more I think about Jefferson's deal I keep coming back to the same outcome that Chase is about to get paid and it will be the Bengals paying him.

(06-04-2024, 11:29 AM)Synric Wrote: True Ja'Marr Chase's rookie year was his best statistically but he was a better receiver in 2022. 2023 was kinda up and down but he still produced at a high level (100 1200+ 7) with a roller-coaster ride at QB.

I can't wait for Chase's 2024 season because I expected him to get 10% to 15% more snaps in the slot giving him mismatches, 2way goes, and catch & run opportunities. 

Deceased each each year in TDs and has not matched 18 yds a catch, just can't see him  better than Jefferson, to me 2nd to 3rd best WR. Not a bad thing just not highest paid

(06-04-2024, 11:29 AM)Synric Wrote: True Ja'Marr Chase's rookie year was his best statistically but he was a better receiver in 2022. 2023 was kinda up and down but he still produced at a high level (100 1200+ 7) with a roller-coaster ride at QB.

I can't wait for Chase's 2024 season because I expected him to get 10% to 15% more snaps in the slot giving him mismatches, 2way goes, and catch & run opportunities. 

So discounting receiving Yards, TDs, YPC, 1st down %, rushing yards, and rushing average; Chase was a better WR in 22 than in 21? 

Hell, my hope is 2024 is his "worst" year yet

(06-04-2024, 08:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So discounting receiving Yards, TDs, YPC, 1st down %, rushing yards, and rushing average; Chase was a better WR in 22 than in 21? 

Hell, my hope is 2024 is his "worst" year yet

You seem to bring perspective to post, nice job

(06-04-2024, 08:08 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Deceased each each year in TDs and has not matched 18 yds a catch, just can't see him  better than Jefferson, to me 2nd to 3rd best WR. Not a bad thing just not highest paid

That's twice.

(06-04-2024, 08:08 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Deceased each each year in TDs and has not matched 18 yds a catch, just can't see him  better than Jefferson, to me 2nd to 3rd best WR. Not a bad thing just not highest paid

The highest paid player at a position isn't always the best, statistically speaking.  Sometimes it's a matter of timing.

(06-04-2024, 08:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So discounting receiving Yards, TDs, YPC, 1st down %, rushing yards, and rushing average; Chase was a better WR in 22 than in 21? 

Hell, my hope is 2024 is his "worst" year yet

In 2022 defenses attacked the Bengals differently and Chase specifically. Chase had to move to different positions and expand his route tree. 2021 was Joe Burrow's statically best year but he was a better QB in 2022 because he had to evolve because of how defenses were adjusting to him.

Massive growth for both those players 2021 to 2022.

(06-04-2024, 10:03 PM)Synric Wrote: In 2022 defenses attacked the Bengals differently and Chase specifically. Chase had to move to different positions and expand his route tree. 2021 was Joe Burrow's statically best year but he was a better QB in 2022 because he had to evolve because of how defenses were adjusting to him.

Massive growth for both those players 2021 to 2022.

Yeah, it is one thing to take the NFL by surprise, but another to adjust to how teams play you and still be damn good.

(06-04-2024, 10:03 PM)Synric Wrote: In 2022 defenses attacked the Bengals differently and Chase specifically. Chase had to move to different positions and expand his route tree. 2021 was Joe Burrow's statically best year but he was a better QB in 2022 because he had to evolve because of how defenses were adjusting to him.

Massive growth for both those players 2021 to 2022.

Meh, we'll just disagree on what constitutes being a better WR. 

I just hope he gets closer to my definition of better in 2024 than yours. As I said: I'll be happier with crappier player, better stats.