(06-04-2024, 10:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, it is one thing to take the NFL by surprise, but another to adjust to how teams play you and still be damn good.

Yep. Glad he didn't take that get better stats after your rookie year approach, like so many lesser WRs do. 

(06-04-2024, 11:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Meh, we'll just disagree on what constitutes being a better WR. 

I just hope he gets closer to my definition of better in 2024 than yours. As I said: I'll be happier with crappier player, better stats. 

Ja'Marr Chase had more Yards, Receptions, and Points per game in 2022  but played in 5 less games than 2021.

(06-05-2024, 12:07 AM)Synric Wrote: Ja'Marr Chase had more Yards, Receptions, and Points per game in 2022  but played in 5 less games than 2021.

But less YPC and TDs/game; if we're going to ignore production and use "averages". 

We agree on a lot, but we'll just disagree that JC was a "better" WR in 22 than 21. 

(06-04-2024, 01:16 PM)Joelist Wrote: So they must have agreed to have the guarantee occur in phases then. Spotrac is not really clear did you find a better source?

Understanding the details of the contract tells you everything you need to know.

Couple of things:

100% is never required to escrow.
1st year cash taken by the player is excluded from escrow calculation.
Future option/roster bonuses are not required to be put into escrow.


Jefferson's contract has 110M guaranteed.  30M of that is a 2025 roster/option bonus.  

On top of that, he is to receive over 88M guaranteed at signing.  Thus the guaranteed portion is likely covered.  We do not know the exact numbers of the required escrow due to the fact that we do not know how the 5th year option salary was handled, is that 19M included in the "guaranteed" amount?  5th year option is also never required to be escrowed.

Thus there is likely zero due to escrow in Jefferson's case.

(06-05-2024, 08:02 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Understanding the details of the contract tells you everything you need to know.

Couple of things:

100% is never required to escrow.
1st year cash taken by the player is excluded from escrow calculation.
Future option/roster bonuses are not required to be put into escrow.


Jefferson's contract has 110M guaranteed.  30M of that is a 2025 roster/option bonus.  

On top of that, he is to receive over 88M at signing.  Thus the guaranteed portion is likely covered.  We do not know the exact numbers of the required escrow due to the fact that we do not know how the 5th year option salary was handled, is that 19M included in the "guaranteed" amount?  5th year option is also never required to be escrowed.

Thus there is likely zero due to escrow in Jefferson's case.

Thanks! This was the kind of structural detail I was hunting for. Spotrac has him receiving $38,063,000 at signing and a total of 51.257 million becomes guaranteed later. So 110 million minus the 38,063,000 minus the 51.257 gives roughly 22.7 million they had to put into escrow?

(06-04-2024, 11:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yep. Glad he didn't take that get better stats after your rookie year approach, like so many lesser WRs do. 

Soooo...Chase sets the franchise single season receiving yardage record...in a season where he didn't even crack the fanchise Top 10 for Targets in a season...and ties for second for receiving TD's in a season...and bfine is like, "Do better".  

(06-05-2024, 12:48 PM)Whatever Wrote: Soooo...Chase sets the franchise single season receiving yardage record...in a season where he didn't even crack the fanchise Top 10 for Targets in a season...and ties for second for receiving TD's in a season...and bfine is like, "Do better".  

Lol

(06-05-2024, 12:48 PM)Whatever Wrote: Soooo...Chase sets the franchise single season receiving yardage record...in a season where he didn't even crack the fanchise Top 10 for Targets in a season...and ties for second for receiving TD's in a season...and bfine is like, "Do better".  

You were so close. I simply asserted not matching his rookie year is not "getting better". 

Of course I want him to surpass his rookie number; even at the expense of getting better

(06-04-2024, 11:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yep. Glad he didn't take that get better stats after your rookie year approach, like so many lesser WRs do. 

Numbers aren't everything...

You have to have perspective, and Chase still had damn good numbers after the NFL adjusted to him.

(06-05-2024, 11:48 AM)Joelist Wrote: Thanks! This was the kind of structural detail I was hunting for. Spotrac has him receiving $38,063,000 at signing and a total of 51.257 million becomes guaranteed later. So 110 million minus the 38,063,000 minus the 51.257 gives roughly 22.7 million they had to put into escrow?

I would agree, but it depends on if they included the 5th year option cash of 19M and if they considered that as part of the 110M, then it would be less than 3M and not have any escrow.

(06-05-2024, 10:15 PM)casear2727 Wrote:
I would agree, but it depends on if they included the 5th year option cash of 19M and if they considered that as part of the 110M, then it would be less than 3M and not have any escrow.

Thanks for the details in the deal Casear. I don't think I could look all that up.

Chase though his first 4 years including playoffs is a top 4 WR in NFL history. Get out of here with that crazy talk he isn't worth as much as Jefferson. He missed a half season with injuries He doesn't get hurt he may have the best 4 year start ever

(06-09-2024, 01:23 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Chase though his first 4 years including playoffs is a top 4 WR in NFL history. Get out of here with that crazy talk he isn't worth as much as Jefferson. He missed a half season with injuries He doesn't get hurt he may have the best 4 year start ever

And the crazy thing is he did it in only 3 years

Yall gotta be high if yall think Jamar is getting a penny less than JJ.

To me Jamarr has higher upside.


Jamarr can run routes and catch just as good as JJ but rarely gets hurt, and is generational after the catch

(06-05-2024, 03:03 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Numbers aren't everything...

Sure, keep telling yourself that it's not how big the number is, but how you use the number, Nate. 

(07-07-2024, 12:22 PM)Housh Wrote: Yall gotta be high if yall think Jamar is getting a penny less than JJ.

To me Jamarr has higher upside.

Jamarr can run routes and catch just as good as JJ but rarely gets hurt, and is generational after the catch

He'll get a bit less and I don't think you can reasonably say Ja'Marr has higher upside than a guy who had 1800 yards, was a top-5 MVP vote getter, and won OPOY.

Chase needs 2,162 yards in 2024 to match Jefferson's 4 year pace.

2023 was the first time Jefferson missed a game. You say rarely gets hurt like Jefferson is Tyler Eifert rather than a guy who >1,000 snaps each of the previous two years.

I like Chase and think he's a very very good WR, but pretending he's better than Jefferson is peak orange koolaid sipping.

(06-03-2024, 01:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Right, but from the contracts we've seen going out to other WRs of that same draft class, I think that you'd have to slot Chase just a little below Jefferson, but higher than Waddle.

I too would go lower than Jefferson, but I'd go higher than Amon-Ra St. Brown, who signed for 4 years, $120 mill ($30 mill APY) with $35.3 mill guaranteed.
Chase has more production than ASB in the 3 years both have been in the league, so it should be a relatively easy argument for Chase's camp why he should get $30+ mill minimum.

Comparing them, Chase had more yards, more TDs, higher YPR on fewer receptions, targets, and games than ASB.

AJ Brown is the second-highest paid WR at 3 years, $96 mill ($32 mill APY) with $51 mill guaranteed. I'd look to go $32.5-33 mill APY for 3-4 years with probably around $60-80 mill guaranteed based on whether it's 3 years or 4 years.

(06-09-2024, 01:23 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Chase though his first 4 years including playoffs is a top 4 WR in NFL history. Get out of here with that crazy talk he isn't worth as much as Jefferson. He missed a half season with injuries He doesn't get hurt he may have the best 4 year start ever

Nothing wrong with being 2nd best, over the past 4 years, Jefferson is the best WR, Chase does not deserve more but should be just under Jefferson, no shame to that

(06-05-2024, 03:03 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Numbers aren't everything...

You have to have perspective, and Chase still had damn good numbers after the NFL adjusted to him.

Adding WR depth that pans out (cautiously optimistic on this), improving the o-line (also cautiously optimistic), and moving Chase around the formation will allow his talent to play up and approach an elite WR season.

2024 could be a leap forward for Jamar and ancillary receivers (Iosivas, Burton, Gesicki, Irwin/Charlie.

I will read the rest later, busy day ahead, but about 10 posts in it seems that this begs an important question.

CAN YOU realistically have an elite QB and WR on the same team (on their 2nd deal)?

By realistically, I mean does attempting 2 deals like this hamstring the team from having enough quality players in the other positions to compete at an elite level?

(07-11-2024, 10:07 AM)SladeX Wrote: I will read the rest later, busy day ahead, but about 10 posts in it seems that this begs an important question.

CAN YOU realistically have an elite QB and WR on the same team (on their 2nd deal)?

By realistically, I mean does attempting 2 deals like this hamstring the team from having enough quality players in the other positions to compete at an elite level?

There’s really no other choice but to pay them both. You don’t draft a Ja’Marr Chase with a top 5 pick, have him become exactly what you hoped for, just to turn around and let him walk because he needs to be paid as a top player at an expensive position.

I was one of the biggest team Chase guys around, but if they did that (they won’t) I would forever question them for not just taking Sewell.