Ah well, at least between this and Burrow getting paid what he deserves we can stop fooling ourselves that our franchise was somehow drafting guys who wanted to be here and only here so badly that they'd play like HOFers and get paid like average joes.

(08-22-2024, 01:51 PM)Whatever Wrote: Aiyuk is a bad example.

He was second team All Pro last year, meaning he was one of the 4 best WR 's in the league.  He was also ranked 60-some in the NFL 100.  He is legitimately one of those top 8-10 guys.  That's why teams are willing to trade/pay him like one.   

The question is more where that line falls.  It gets blurred badly because most of us want to elevate Higgins into a higher tier than he actually is.

The player's psyche and team building philosophy are also big.  Marvin Jones infamously left because he wanted to be a #1 WR.  It wasn't an issue of money.  On the other hand, as with any position group other than QB, where a team's line lies is directly dependent on how well they draft/develop players in said position group.

DJ Moore just got paid, Eagles paid Devonta Smith, Nico Collins got paid, Jaylen Waddle got paid, Michael Pittman got paid, DK Metcalf got paid.

Again,  everyone is paying their receivers if they think they are good. It would make sense not to do it...but that's not happening. Who is the best FA WR we have seen in the last few seasons? Christian Kirk? They aren't letting them hit FA, they are either paying them or trading them to someone who will pay them. Which means there is still massive demand for the top WR's after the top 8-10.

Reminder, what I replied to was a statement that beyond the top 8-10 WRs teams are devaluing the WR position in favor of just drafting guys and the money being spent just doesn't currently align to that thought as OP mentioned. Teams are actually realizing it seems they want multiple really good WRs either by draft, trade, or signing.

(08-22-2024, 01:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ah well, at least between this and Burrow getting paid what he deserves we can stop fooling ourselves that our franchise was somehow drafting guys who wanted to be here and only here so badly that they'd play like HOFers and get paid like average joes.

That was a pipe dream.

It is funny, in a stab-myself-in-the-testes-with-a-pork-chop-bone kind of way that we’ll have Higgins on the field in 2024 and not Chase.

No one predicted that 6-8 months ago.

We are the Bengals, and these are our problems.

(08-22-2024, 02:09 PM)Au165 Wrote: DJ Moore just got paid, Eagles paid Devonta Smith, Nico Collins got paid, Jaylen Waddle got paid, Michael Pittman got paid, DK Metcalf got paid.

Again,  everyone is paying their receivers if they think they are good. It would make sense not to do it...but that's not happening. Who is the best FA WR we have seen in the last few seasons? Christian Kirk? They aren't letting them hit FA, they are either paying them or trading them to someone who will pay them. Which means there is still massive demand for the top WR's after the top 8-10.

Reminder, what I replied to was a statement that beyond the top 8-10 WRs teams are devaluing the WR position in favor of just drafting guys and the money being spent just doesn't currently align to that thought as OP mentioned. Teams are actually realizing it seems they want multiple really good WRs either by draft, trade, or signing.

The draft is still as much a crapshoot at receiver as any other position. The fact is, it’s rare to have someone come in and contribute at a meaningful level. I consider this to be Tyler Boydish kind of production or better.

I wonder why Chase is doing this now rather than next year when Higgins would have been gone and the Bengals desperate to keep a #1 receiver. And when the salary cap would have gone up as well.

(08-22-2024, 03:12 PM)Nepa Wrote: I wonder why Chase is doing this now rather than next year when Higgins would have been gone and the Bengals desperate to keep a #1 receiver. And when the salary cap would have gone up as well.

Because you never know what happens down the road. Higgins could play great this year, want to remain in Cinci.  and accept much much less than Chase which may let Chase walk. 

Also, Chase could get seriously injured this year and not be in the plans after a couple years. Chase is doing this healthy, when the going rate has already been determined and at a time when all other receivers are actually getting paid.

(08-22-2024, 01:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Quite the rabbit hole to go down but it's quite possible. We could have taken Penei Sewell in the first and then got a compliment to Tee in the later rounds. Then we wouldn't have wasted a 2nd Rounder on Jackson Carman. 

Keep something in mind.  In '21, we won the division at 10-7.  The Steelers were the runners up at 9-7-1.  Any additional regular season loss puts us the #7 seed traveling to the #2 seed.  So, our first playoff game would have been at Arrowhead.  

Also, Chase had set the team single season receiving record.  

The best WR taken after Round 1 was Amon Ra St. Brown, ironically, also drafted by the Lions.  How did the Lions do after drafting your hypothetical alternative?  They finished '21 3-13-1, dead last in the NFC.  So, huge stretch to say Sewell+WR later would yield similar results.  

Of course, the Lions also made Sewell the highest paid T in the league this off-season, so if we had taken that route, we may very well find ourselves right back here again, just with a different player.

(08-22-2024, 02:09 PM)Au165 Wrote: DJ Moore just got paid, Eagles paid Devonta Smith, Nico Collins got paid, Jaylen Waddle got paid, Michael Pittman got paid, DK Metcalf got paid.

Again,  everyone is paying their receivers if they think they are good. It would make sense not to do it...but that's not happening. Who is the best FA WR we have seen in the last few seasons? Christian Kirk? They aren't letting them hit FA, they are either paying them or trading them to someone who will pay them. Which means there is still massive demand for the top WR's after the top 8-10.

Reminder, what I replied to was a statement that beyond the top 8-10 WRs teams are devaluing the WR position in favor of just drafting guys and the money being spent just doesn't currently align to that thought as OP mentioned. Teams are actually realizing it seems they want multiple really good WRs either by draft, trade, or signing.

Have you looked at what their salaries and deals are vs what Chase is being reported as wanting? He's demanding almost double some of them and hasn't proven he's worth top dollar like Jefferson has. 

Chase had the 12th most yards in 2023
Chase had the 17th most yards in 2022
Chase had the 4th most yards in 2021

(08-22-2024, 11:21 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: All of these holdouts, holdins only prove 1 thing and that is the player and his agent only care about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. There is no team or player closeness or bonds being formed to win a SB ring. I really don't think the players care if they ever win a ring, it's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and nothing else matters. A player would sign with the Tennessee Terribles if the foolish owner would pay them and the team go 0-15. As long as they got the paycheck.

I’m shocked you’re surprised about this. Of course they care about money. These guys aren’t playing for fun. It’s work.

(08-22-2024, 03:20 PM)Whatever Wrote: Keep something in mind.  In '21, we won the division at 10-7.  The Steelers were the runners up at 9-7-1.  Any additional regular season loss puts us the #7 seed traveling to the #2 seed.  So, our first playoff game would have been at Arrowhead.  

Also, Chase had set the team single season receiving record.  

The best WR taken after Round 1 was Amon Ra St. Brown, ironically, also drafted by the Lions.  How did the Lions do after drafting your hypothetical alternative?  They finished '21 3-13-1, dead last in the NFC.  So, huge stretch to say Sewell+WR later would yield similar results.  

Of course, the Lions also made Sewell the highest paid T in the league this off-season, so if we had taken that route, we may very well find ourselves right back here again, just with a different player.

You wanted the answer to your hypothetical question to be 'No" didn't you? 

(08-22-2024, 04:02 PM)TheFan Wrote: Have you looked at what their salaries and deals are vs what Chase is being reported as wanting? He's demanding almost double some of them and hasn't proven he's worth top dollar like Jefferson has. 

Chase had the 12th most yards in 2023
Chase had the 17th most yards in 2022
Chase had the 4th most yards in 2021

Again...that wasn't what I was responding to or even talking about. It was a false notion that teams have abandoned paying WR's in favor of the draft because they have become devalued by the influx of really good young WR's. What I was showing is that teams continue to pay not only the top of the market but also the middle of the market contrary to this narrative that teams look at WR's like HB's now.

(08-22-2024, 03:20 PM)Whatever Wrote: Keep something in mind.  In '21, we won the division at 10-7.  The Steelers were the runners up at 9-7-1.  Any additional regular season loss puts us the #7 seed traveling to the #2 seed.  So, our first playoff game would have been at Arrowhead.  

Also, Chase had set the team single season receiving record.  

The best WR taken after Round 1 was Amon Ra St. Brown, ironically, also drafted by the Lions.  How did the Lions do after drafting your hypothetical alternative?  They finished '21 3-13-1, dead last in the NFC.  So, huge stretch to say Sewell+WR later would yield similar results.  

Of course, the Lions also made Sewell the highest paid T in the league this off-season, so if we had taken that route, we may very well find ourselves right back here again, just with a different player.

There's questions on long term consistent success. And are the Bengals or Lions better set up for it? Given Burrows health that is a legitimate questions to the Sewell / Chase debate.

Burrow DID do a team friendly contract. Team friendly was never about the dollars it was about the structure. He broke the guarantees up so the team did not get crushed with a huge escrow payment in year one for example.

(08-22-2024, 05:32 PM)jj22 Wrote: There's questions on long term consistent success. And are the Bengals or Lions better set up for it? Given Burrows health that is a legitimate questions to the Sewell / Chase debate.

The Bengals have a pretty good  longterm Tackle combination right now with Brown and Mims. So I would say the Bengals are in a good position for longterm success. 

(08-22-2024, 01:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: 40 million a year is ridiculous, but that isn't what Jefferson got...

You have no IDEA what you are talking about! Listening to people talk sports is just a microcosm of what's wrong with the world. The loudest people are always the most wrong!

His 40 million a year, combined with the 2 years he have on his contract: 40MIL X 4 (160) + 27MIL that he is owed for the last 2 years make this a 6Year, 186MIL contract, putting him at 31.17M a year (the highest paid YES, but only barely edging out Jefferson!

(08-22-2024, 11:32 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And that’s absolutely going to be the narrative until they do. They sold the naming rights to the stadium, they let Bates walk, they didn’t extend Tee, etc. The money is clearly there.

What do you mean?
Burrow's contract extension last year ate up all the money 

(08-22-2024, 04:02 PM)TheFan Wrote: Have you looked at what their salaries and deals are vs what Chase is being reported as wanting? He's demanding almost double some of them and hasn't proven he's worth top dollar like Jefferson has. 

Chase had the 12th most yards in 2023
Chase had the 17th most yards in 2022
Chase had the 4th most yards in 2021

I always find it interesting when the metrics don't justify the player being the Xth best player and thus paid like it.
But unfortunately, someone outside will still likely give the money like they are, so should the current team just do it to avoid the headache of losing and replacing?

(08-22-2024, 05:57 PM)mhbsavant Wrote: You have no IDEA what you are talking about! Listening to people talk sports is just a microcosm of what's wrong with the world. The loudest people are always the most wrong!

His 40 million a year, combined with the 2 years he have on his contract: 40MIL X 4 (160) + 27MIL that he is owed for the last 2 years make this a 6Year, 186MIL contract, putting him at 31.17M a year (the highest paid YES, but only barely edging out Jefferson!

Ahhh, thanks for clearing that up lol

(08-22-2024, 05:57 PM)mhbsavant Wrote: You have no IDEA what you are talking about! Listening to people talk sports is just a microcosm of what's wrong with the world. The loudest people are always the most wrong!

His 40 million a year, combined with the 2 years he have on his contract: 40MIL X 4 (160) + 27MIL that he is owed for the last 2 years make this a 6Year, 186MIL contract, putting him at 31.17M a year (the highest paid YES, but only barely edging out Jefferson!

You can’t just ignore the fact Jefferson played out last year on peanuts (which would be Chase playing this year). So yes his AAV is Lower than Jefferson, your comment is not necessarily apples to apples.

Chiefs just paid a center!

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/creed-humphrey-agrees-to-extension-that-makes-him-the-highest-paid-center