Bengals had one competent starting WR and ran 95% of their plays out of shotgun.  How truly difficult is this to defend?

This is on Zac, and if Pitcher was onboard with it he wont have to worry about taking the next step to HC any time soon.  

This has to be fixed.

The Bengals had 3 pistol plays (runs) and 4 under center plays (3 PA, 1 sneak) against the Patriots in Week 1

19 plays with motion or a shift, 25 plays without

— Jake Liscow (@JakeLiscow) September 9, 2024

They start out slow every year and then figure it out.

The slow starts need to stop, though.

My theory is (and they will never admit this) is that the underestimated the Pats, played vanilla on offense, and saved a lot of wrinkles and schemes for the Chiefs. That is my hope, anyway. 

(09-10-2024, 11:06 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: They start out slow every year and then figure it out.

The slow starts need to stop, though.

Operating out of shotgun every single play is not a good strategy in my opinion.  Why make life so easy on a defense?

(09-10-2024, 11:08 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Operating out of shotgun every single play is not a good strategy in my opinion.  Why make life so easy on a defense?

I mean I agree 100%. 

They found the recipe against the 49ers and beyond last year and they (for some reason) just refuse to continue to do what they did in those games. 

(09-10-2024, 11:00 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Bengals had one competent starting WR and ran 95% of their plays out of shotgun.  How truly difficult is this to defend?

This is on Zac, and if Pitcher was onboard with it he wont have to worry about taking the next step to HC any time soon.  

This has to be fixed.

The Bengals had 3 pistol plays (runs) and 4 under center plays (3 PA, 1 sneak) against the Patriots in Week 1

19 plays with motion or a shift, 25 plays without

— Jake Liscow (@JakeLiscow) September 9, 2024

if they had none vs the patriots they have less so vs the Chiefs

Should have seen more of this.

The Bengals run game was successful on 6/7 plays (85.7%) when lining up in 12 personnel with Erick All and Drew Sample including their only touchdown. This is their best personnel grouping and they should embrace it. pic.twitter.com/bPksQ8nygF

— mike (@bengals_sans) September 9, 2024

Orlovsky's quote probably sums it up best for many fans:

Quote:I expected different. I expected something to give me something more than catch and throw football. They don't have tight ends that can block in the run game. The timing of their offense is not good. They play spread-out shotgun football and think that they're going to drive down the field 50 plays at four yards a catch. I thought I was going to get something different out of this offense. I know it's one game, but I'm so freaking frustrated watching this offense play football. When all they do is line up in the shotgun and throw four-yard routes.

(09-10-2024, 11:00 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Bengals had one competent starting WR and ran 95% of their plays out of shotgun.  How truly difficult is this to defend?

This is on Zac, and if Pitcher was onboard with it he wont have to worry about taking the next step to HC any time soon.  

This has to be fixed.

The Bengals had 3 pistol plays (runs) and 4 under center plays (3 PA, 1 sneak) against the Patriots in Week 1

19 plays with motion or a shift, 25 plays without

— Jake Liscow (@JakeLiscow) September 9, 2024

Well, league average last year was 83% of plays coming out of shotgun.

The Bengals were in shotgun 44 of 51 plays Sunday, so 86%, close to average.  I mean, Burrow and Hurts have been known to take 95% of the snaps from shotgun, so they are dialing back on it a bit.  

I mean, it is a passing league and most teams operate from shotgun the vast majority of the time because it gives the QB and extra half second to throw, on average.  

(09-10-2024, 11:32 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Orlovsky's quote probably sums it up best for many fans:

They don't have tight ends that can block in the run game.

This is the only part that’s wrong.

(09-10-2024, 11:33 AM)Whatever Wrote: Well, league average last year was 83% of plays coming out of shotgun.

The Bengals were in shotgun 44 of 51 plays Sunday, so 86%, close to average.  I mean, Burrow and Hurts have been known to take 95% of the snaps from shotgun, so they are dialing back on it a bit.  

I mean, it is a passing league and most teams operate from shotgun the vast majority of the time because it gives the QB and extra half second to throw, on average.  

Where are you getting that number? When I look, I see 72%. I have it slowly rising, but not quite in the 80's. 

1. 2020 - 66%
2. 2021 - 66%
3. 2022 - 68%
4. 2023 - 72%
   

(09-10-2024, 11:08 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Operating out of shotgun every single play is not a good strategy in my opinion.  Why make life so easy on a defense?

It appears the both Zac and Joe are addicted to the pass game and cannot kick the habit.  

(09-10-2024, 11:08 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Operating out of shotgun every single play is not a good strategy in my opinion.  Why make life so easy on a defense?

Hallelujah !! In my best 250-person choir voice.

I realize I'm old school and that taints my perception a bit. But I'm fully onboard and understand this isn't 1975 three yards in a cloud of dust days.

But it sure seems to me our scheme and playcalling hands our plays (on a silver platter) waayyyy to much to the opposing D. We rarely fool any D about what's coming.

I hate all the shotgun we run and I DESPISE empty sets! Once or twice a game just to throw a new wrinkle at the D, ok I guess. I was watching SF last night and they had the Jets all out of sorts on many plays. "which way did he go George"?

Why can't we do that? 

(09-10-2024, 11:12 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Should have seen more of this.

The Bengals run game was successful on 6/7 plays (85.7%) when lining up in 12 personnel with Erick All and Drew Sample including their only touchdown. This is their best personnel grouping and they should embrace it. pic.twitter.com/bPksQ8nygF

— mike (@bengals_sans) September 9, 2024

For sure

At least way more than they do.

(09-10-2024, 11:00 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Bengals had one competent starting WR and ran 95% of their plays out of shotgun.  How truly difficult is this to defend?

This is on Zac, and if Pitcher was onboard with it he wont have to worry about taking the next step to HC any time soon.  

This has to be fixed.

The Bengals had 3 pistol plays (runs) and 4 under center plays (3 PA, 1 sneak) against the Patriots in Week 1

19 plays with motion or a shift, 25 plays without

— Jake Liscow (@JakeLiscow) September 9, 2024

The elephant in the room has been putting Burrow under center, i agree we need more but  the problem multi layered.. it is just not play calling, it is also what Burrow is good at and not good at.  Burrow has rarely been under center in his college and pro career, is adequate at best with play action.. My gut is Burrow wants shotgun as much as ZT does.. i agree they need to go under center more but you wonder who is making that call (ZT or Burrow)

(09-10-2024, 11:39 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Where are you getting that number? When I look, I see 72%. I have it slowly rising, but not quite in the 80's. 

1. 2020 - 66%
2. 2021 - 66%
3. 2022 - 68%
4. 2023 - 72%
   

"The shotgun formation was a novelty instead of the norm. In today's NFL, over 83 percent of all offensive snaps come with the quarterback in some form of shotgun formation. Some quarterbacks, notably Jalen Hurts and Joe Burrow, take over 95 percent of their snaps in the shotgun."

https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2024/02/15/jared-goff-under-center-shotgun-passing-stat-splits-percentages/

(09-10-2024, 12:37 PM)Whatever Wrote: "The shotgun formation was a novelty instead of the norm. In today's NFL, over 83 percent of all offensive snaps come with the quarterback in some form of shotgun formation. Some quarterbacks, notably Jalen Hurts and Joe Burrow, take over 95 percent of their snaps in the shotgun."

https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2024/02/15/jared-goff-under-center-shotgun-passing-stat-splits-percentages/

I hate the shotgun all the time. If you're gonna be in the shotgun all the time it should be a no-huddle offense then.

And it appears that their refusal to adapt or adjust or change is what causes them to be so predictable. The league is on to them, they aren't fooling any defense anymore. The SB year they were the news kids on the field but the league quickly caught up and here we are.

(09-10-2024, 12:24 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Hallelujah !! In my best 250-person choir voice.

I realize I'm old school and that taints my perception a bit. But I'm fully onboard and understand this isn't 1975 three yards in a cloud of dust days.

But it sure seems to me our scheme and playcalling hands our plays (on a silver platter) waayyyy to much to the opposing D. We rarely fool any D about what's coming.

I hate all the shotgun we run and I DESPISE empty sets! Once or twice a game just to throw a new wrinkle at the D, ok I guess. I was watching SF last night and they had the Jets all out of sorts on many plays. "which way did he go George"?

Why can't we do that? 

Hell the passing game is 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

(09-10-2024, 12:24 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Hallelujah !! In my best 250-person choir voice.

I realize I'm old school and that taints my perception a bit. But I'm fully onboard and understand this isn't 1975 three yards in a cloud of dust days.

But it sure seems to me our scheme and playcalling hands our plays (on a silver platter) waayyyy to much to the opposing D. We rarely fool any D about what's coming.

I hate all the shotgun we run and I DESPISE empty sets! Once or twice a game just to throw a new wrinkle at the D, ok I guess. I was watching SF last night and they had the Jets all out of sorts on many plays. "which way did he go George"?

Why can't we do that? 

very good coach. Vs. average coach

(09-10-2024, 11:06 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: They start out slow every year and then figure it out.

The slow starts need to stop, though.

My theory is (and they will never admit this) is that the underestimated the Pats, played vanilla on offense, and saved a lot of wrinkles and schemes for the Chiefs. That is my hope, anyway. 

They 100% MASSIVELY  underestimated the pats. Taylor said he thought we would go up 21-0 against them.