(10-28-2024, 09:48 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: You hear all kinds of excuses. When Tee is out we're not good, Burton doesn't know the offense, Moss was a set back, Burrow has regressed, We have no true WR #3, of course the play calling, and on and on. And I'm not saying there isn't any truth there, however.

The true problem is we just aren't good enough up front, in the trenches. We have like 3 can maybe push it to 4 decent O and Dlineman out of 9. We suck at run blocking, we regularly see way too much pressure on JB coming up the middle.

We get very little to no pressure on opposing QB's outside of Hendrickson. We get gashed in the run game. The defense can't get off the field and the offense can't stay on it. Why??

We suck in the trenches.

You realize Burrow is statistically the LEAST pressured QB in the league?  He's only pressured on 13.6% of his drop backs.

This is the big problem with the ol' eye test.  Our DL gets next to no pressure, so people evaluating our OL think they should look like the opposing OL looks.  At least in pass pro, they've been good.  Everyone gets pressured, but because our DL sucks, things look worse than they are.

And our RB's are trash.  Utter trash.  We're not a great run blocking line, but put a true stud RB back there and they'll look a lot better.

The Real Problem:

(10-28-2024, 11:22 AM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: Marion Hobby is the defensive line equivalent to Frank Pollack. Seriously. Look at the talent we’ve given him and what do we have to show for it? Who has he developed? We’ve had Trey as our only consistent pass rush for what, going on three consecutive seasons now? DJ Reader, who is not the alpha and omega of run stoppers, was not retained. So what? Why wasn’t a guy being coached up behind Reader for a couple seasons, groomed to replace him? Oh that’s right, we wasted a pick on Tyler Shelvin, who they couldn’t coach up. How did Zach Carter work out? Myles Murphy? Joseph Ossai’s disappearance for two plus seasons. Am I wrong in this opinion, just wanting to point fingers?

You're not wrong. We probably (outside of Hendrickinson) have the worst Dline in the NFL.

(10-28-2024, 11:19 AM)Timanky12 Wrote: Yea, but we have one of the smallest scouting department in the NFL. 

That would be ok if they knew what they are doing, but it’s obvious they don’t.

Yes but alot of area scouts also pull double duty for BLETSO or National. Getting Scouting Reports and double checking them against other sources is the easy part... Stacking the board correctly is something only a few teams do consistently.

Marvin Lewis and his staff were good at stacking their draft board with talent at one point for a couple years the Bengals had the most drafted players playing across the NFL. Marvin was just awful without a good OC.

It is a comprehensive personnel management failure.

• Interior O Line and D Line has to be the priority over skill payers
  sign the core talent you have as soon as you are able so you can afford it
  Alienating your best players by dragging your feet is totally counter productive. At this rate we lost bates, Higgins is all but gone and if we continue as we have we're going to lose Chase. If we lose Chase, Burrow will not be far behind
  You have to be able to accurately assess when people are REALLY over the hill - unlike Whitworth and Reader
  Sometimes you have to spend too much to keep what you have to have to stay in the game
  You can't make silly statements in public like you can't just get linemen at Walmart
  • Zach has to stop calling plays. He is not good at it.
    
    
    

If you have any questions about how bad our Oline is just watch closely Burrow's pockets and time to throw vs. Hurts pockets and time to throw.

Which also shows you how bad our Dline is at pressuring the opposing QB.

(10-28-2024, 10:03 AM)Synric Wrote: Trenches are indeed the biggest issue. This is a team that has been consistently out physical at the point of attack for a few seasons now.


Bring back the 9 on 7 drill in training camp!

It's like the two most basic, fundamental skills essential to football, blocking and tackling, are non-entities in terms of importance to the Head Coach.

(10-28-2024, 11:23 AM)Whatever Wrote: You realize Burrow is statistically the LEAST pressured QB in the league?  He's only pressured on 13.6% of his drop backs.

This is the big problem with the ol' eye test.  Our DL gets next to no pressure, so people evaluating our OL think they should look like the opposing OL looks. At least in pass pro, they've been good.  Everyone gets pressured, but because our DL sucks, things look worse than they are.

And our RB's are trash.  Utter trash.  We're not a great run blocking line, but put a true stud RB back there and they'll look a lot better.

(10-28-2024, 11:42 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: If you have any questions about how bad our Oline is just watch closely Burrow's pockets and time to throw vs. Hurts pockets and time to throw.

Which also shows you how bad our Dline is at pressuring the opposing QB.

You’re kinda doing exactly what he said above.

Not sure you can put the entire blame on the D-Line. Too many plays where the secondary look like buffons. Jordan Battle showed why he's not getting clock in the Devonta Smith TD.

(10-28-2024, 11:47 AM)NotBigzo Wrote: Not sure you can put the entire blame on the D-Line. Too many plays where the secondary look like buffons. Jordan Battle showed why he's not getting clock in the Devonta Smith TD.

Battle shouldn’t have been on him by himself in the first place.

(10-28-2024, 11:46 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You’re kinda doing exactly what he said above.

Seeing Cappa getting steam rolled into JB's lap in .9 seconds has nothing to do with gauging anything except Cappa is not good.

(10-28-2024, 11:57 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Seeing Cappa getting steam rolled into JB's lap in .9 seconds has nothing to do with gauging anything except Cappa is not good.

Cappa has definitely been super up and down most of his time here. Same with Volson. Still wouldn’t lump in pass protection as one of this team’s biggest issues though.

They’ve shown they can put up 30+ points a game. It’s the fact that that is not even enough to win that is the real problem (no pass rush & weak secondary).

(10-28-2024, 11:42 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: If you have any questions about how bad our Oline is just watch closely Burrow's pockets and time to throw vs. Hurts pockets and time to throw.

Which also shows you how bad our Dline is at pressuring the opposing QB.

Alot of times it's the scheme which is just bringing 3-4 men which ain't going to do it much. The past few years in the bend but don't break mode we saw the same thing but when Lou dialed up something (a blitz, stunts, moving guys around) they got big pressures/hits/sacks at important times.

But keep in check they've played 5-6 teams this year out of 8 games with QB's that are very very good runners/very elusive. How many times just this year were you screaming at the TV when a defender had the QB in grasp only to get juked, lose contain, etc.? It's really hard to pin your ears back on these type of QB's with full steam ahead knowing that if you lose contain it's 20-30 yard QB run.

The bottom line with Cinci. is they can't run the damn ball. You got 3rd and 2 inside the opponents 50 you have to get those yards. I was screaming all preseason and even prior to last year that they need a complimentary big back that can punish a defender here and there, inflict some pain and, more importantly, fall forward for a yard or two. Tell me the last time a Cinci. RB got YAC on a run. Mixon danced alot and these 2 guys (I like Brown alot) get hit and drop like a fly most times.

(10-28-2024, 11:47 AM)NotBigzo Wrote: Not sure you can put the entire blame on the D-Line. Too many plays where the secondary look like buffons. Jordan Battle showed why he's not getting clock in the Devonta Smith TD.

(10-28-2024, 11:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Battle shouldn’t have been on him by himself in the first place.

This. If your gauge on if a safety should be playing is "can they cover Devonta Smith 1-on-1" then I don't think there are going to be any safeties playing in the NFL. They're not meant to be covering perennial 1k WRs on their own because if they could they would be Cornerbacks instead and make a whole lot more money.

(10-28-2024, 11:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Battle shouldn’t have been on him by himself in the first place.

Safeties getting matchups vs receivers in zone coverage happens just like TEs and Edges. Jordan Battle deep safety is him playing out of position. 

Per TruMedia, the #Bengals had 3 pressures against the Eagles.
That's the second fewest in the league this year (Colts had 1 vs Jaguars in Week 5).

— Jay Morrison (@ByJayMorrison) October 28, 2024

I can’t believe this was actually only the 2nd worst.

We are a soft team in a tough division.

It is a stupid formula. We will finish last again, and deservedly so.

If Watson does not get hurt, we lose the Browns game. Or if they go to Winston right away.

Here is where key Bengals DL rank in PFF’s pass rush win rate metric at their position (min. 30 rushes):

EDGE
▪️Hendrickson - 7/139
▪️Ossai - 85/139
▪️Hubbard - 111/139
▪️Murphy - 127/139

iDL
▪️Hill - 26/152
▪️Rankins - 105/152
▪️Jackson - 128/152
▪️Jenkins - 138/152 https://t.co/ZW7zUtbLdh

— Gridiron Grading (@GridironGrading) October 28, 2024

The DL is an absolute dumpster fire outside of Trey and BJ.

(10-28-2024, 11:13 AM)Synric Wrote: The issue isn't the number of scouts. Hell most teams area scouts pull double duty with scouting services. The issue is the Front Office guys who stack the board from those scouting reports. I would guess it's Mike Potts, Duke Tobin, the HC, and Coordinators that do most of the board stacking. 

I totally disagree...we usually have 4 scouts and other teams have anywhere from 8 to 14.

(10-28-2024, 03:42 PM)pulses Wrote: I totally disagree...we usually have 4 scouts and other teams have anywhere from 8 to 14.

It doesn't matter how many scouts you have, the guys who stacks the board holds the power. The Cowboys have a ton of scouts but Jerry sets the board with his son...if you have an army of information someone has to make a decision on what you do with it. We have had a ton of situations, as most teams do, where there are two players on the board and they obviously scouted both (we have reports they were at pro days and on campus) and yet we choose the wrong player. It's not an issue we don't know about the best guys, the issue is we do an awful job on deciding how those guys project to the NFL.