(12-04-2024, 02:30 PM)jj22 Wrote: They used to love Zac (supposedly) or were we just sold that he was young and on their level. Has he grown old actin that fast?

I think they loved winning. Once that's gone, the illusion disappears.

I'm not sure why folks are surprised that Tomlin came off the way he did. He is as good as it gets when it comes to speaking to and motivating players. However, that is only a % of the job description.

I wouldn't mind moving on from ZT, but acting like because ZT doesn't have the same command of a room that Tomlin does, it makes him a bad coach is simple-minded.

Coaching success is a combination of motivation/soft skills, scheme & x's/o's, talent development and evaluation, and coach hiring.

Not saying ZT is even good at any of those, but let's not just say "ahhh, Tomlin speaks better. ZT sucks!"

(12-04-2024, 02:51 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Really wasn't presented that way. I am going to say this though, as big as a Zac Taylor supporter as I have been since the day he was hired, last night's episode moved me closer to wanting a new HC than 5.5 years of some of you guys bitching about him. He really came off as lost.

I think some of us realized that for 5.5 years. Burrow is a truly generational talent...as is Chase. And Higgins, when healthy is really good.

Literally, any coach that is currently in the NFL could coach them and have a good offense.

Where we're at now is Chase probably has 3 or 4 years of being elite left. Burrow likely has longer, but injuries are mounting and his wrist is a worry.

Plus, we need guys who can develop players. Odds of all of our defensive draft picks just being terrible picks is low. They're either not getting developed or put in schemes they can't succeed in.

Our scheme on both sides of the ball seems kind of vanilla and week. I see other teams doing intricate shifts and disguising offense and defense. Here, it's predictable what we're going to do.

I guess to sum this up, I feel like we're wasting elite talent and not developing other talent.

(12-04-2024, 03:35 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: I'm not sure why folks are surprised that Tomlin came off the way he did. He is as good as it gets when it comes to speaking to and motivating players. However, that is only a % of the job description.

I wouldn't mind moving on from ZT, but acting like because ZT doesn't have the same command of a room that Tomlin does, it makes him a bad coach is simple-minded.

Coaching success is a combination of motivation/soft skills, scheme & x's/o's, talent development and evaluation, and coach hiring.

Not saying ZT is even good at any of those, but let's not just say "ahhh, Tomlin speaks better. ZT sucks!"

This team melts down. They were up 21-7 vs the Ravens. Seemingly in control. Brown fumbles. Then, both sides of the ball melted down. That's a culture and toughness thing. That kind of stuff is on the HC. This team folds at the 1st sign of adversity.

Then, when there's no pressure...they score some cosmetic TD's to make the game close, but lose.

(12-04-2024, 02:56 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We've come a long way from declaring ZT to be an instant leader after seeing his introductory press conference. As Ringo Starr once warbled...love don't last long.

Remember when he installed the clocks at the practice field?

(12-04-2024, 02:51 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Really wasn't presented that way. I am going to say this though, as big as a Zac Taylor supporter as I have been since the day he was hired, last night's episode moved me closer to wanting a new HC than 5.5 years of some of you guys bitching about him. He really came off as lost.

I hate to say this, but in the SB when the Rams shifted their defensive line to overload our line...there are HC's out there that could have adjusted and got us a SB win.

Zac isn't one of them. And that sucks.

Of course, I think the call on Wilson was bunk too.

(12-04-2024, 02:30 PM)jj22 Wrote: They used to love Zac (supposedly) or were we just sold that he was young and on their level. Has he grown old actin that fast?

losing changes perceptions

(12-04-2024, 03:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This team melts down. They were up 21-7 vs the Ravens. Seemingly in control. Brown fumbles. Then, both sides of the ball melted down. That's a culture and toughness thing. That kind of stuff is on the HC. This team folds at the 1st sign of adversity.

Then, when there's no pressure...they score some cosmetic TD's to make the game close, but lose.

Didn't the Ravens lead the NFL in blown 10+ point leads last year? Was that a culture and toughness issue as well?

(12-04-2024, 02:56 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We've come a long way from declaring ZT to be an instant leader after seeing his introductory press conference. As Ringo Starr once warbled...love don't last long.

(12-04-2024, 03:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think they loved winning. Once that's gone, the illusion disappears.

Said this when everyone was talking about "Zac's good culture". A "good culture" in the NFL only lasts as long as you keep winning and everyone is getting paid or ineligible yet to be paid.

(12-04-2024, 04:54 PM)pally Wrote: losing changes perceptions

It's the flip-side of Paul's quote:  losing makes non-believers of us all.

(12-04-2024, 03:35 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: I'm not sure why folks are surprised that Tomlin came off the way he did. He is as good as it gets when it comes to speaking to and motivating players. However, that is only a % of the job description.

I wouldn't mind moving on from ZT, but acting like because ZT doesn't have the same command of a room that Tomlin does, it makes him a bad coach is simple-minded.

Coaching success is a combination of motivation/soft skills, scheme & x's/o's, talent development and evaluation, and coach hiring.

Not saying ZT is even good at any of those, but let's not just say "ahhh, Tomlin speaks better. ZT sucks!"

Um... He wins games better than Taylor too.

(12-04-2024, 03:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This team melts down. They were up 21-7 vs the Ravens. Seemingly in control. Brown fumbles. Then, both sides of the ball melted down. That's a culture and toughness thing. That kind of stuff is on the HC. This team folds at the 1st sign of adversity.

Then, when there's no pressure...they score some cosmetic TD's to make the game close, but lose.

I've never been impressed by this staff, but you're painting with a broad brush. It's been years now but this team has comeback from multiple score deficits against the best in the league.

Watched it.

(12-04-2024, 05:07 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: Didn't the Ravens lead the NFL in blown 10+ point leads last year? Was that a culture and toughness issue as well?

They were 13-4 last year.

(12-04-2024, 11:28 PM)jason Wrote: I've never been impressed by this staff, but you're painting with a broad brush. It's been years now but this team has comeback from multiple score deficits against the best in the league.

They have...when they had an elite roster with veterans.

They also lose a ton of 1 score games and suck in the division.

IF Tomlin were our coach, do you think if we had a 21-7 lead vs the Ravens in the 3rd quarter and Brown fumbles that we lose?

Tried to tell people.

(12-04-2024, 11:25 PM)jason Wrote: Um... He wins games better than Taylor too.

Correct. But the folks that are watching HBO and saying "Oh, Mike T is much more motivational, it's clear why he is a better coach" are using one variable of a head coach. 

Tomlin is also better at player evaluation and development, but I just saw people equate better motivator = better coach. 

Just because Hard Knocks is not showing Tomlin coaching his players to play dirty doesn't mean he's stopped doing it. Keep some perspective.

Tomlin has what 13 or 14 more years experience on Taylor; so yeah of course he's going to come off as a better coach.

(12-05-2024, 12:23 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They have...when they had an elite roster with veterans.

They also lose a ton of 1 score games and suck in the division.

IF Tomlin were our coach, do you think if we had a 21-7 lead vs the Ravens in the 3rd quarter and Brown fumbles that we lose?

Have you seen our defense? Yes, I think the same thing would have happened!