(12-07-2024, 04:45 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Goff threw 5 inteceptions in 1 game. thats how many interceptions burrow has all year. And the Lions are like 11-1 or something

Burrow has  thrown 4 in a loss along with a fumble. And had the chance to win it in the final couple drives to no prevail. 

The difference. Goff pulled it together when needed in the end and won. 

Excellent example. 

Burrows failed in close games when we’ve had good defensive plays. 

But this is old news. Long discussed on here so I’m not trying to dwell on it given the season. 

Who else agrees with me? If we had Dan Campbell all season as opposed to Zac and Lions had Zac instead of Campbell the records of the 2 teams would be reversed. Lions would be 4-8 and Bengals would be 11-1 coaching makes a big difference.

(12-07-2024, 04:47 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: anyways, get a cat scan

Right. You remember…. 

(12-07-2024, 04:53 PM)jj22 Wrote: Burrow has  thrown 4 in a loss along with a fumble. And had the chance to win it in the final couple drives to no prevail. 

The difference. Goff pulled it together when needed in the end and won. 

Excellent example. 

Burrows failed in close games when we’ve had good defensive plays. 

But this is old news. Long discussed on here so I’m not trying to dwell on it given the season. 

do you blame the chiefs loss on burrow? be honest with me here

you know, where the bengals had the lead as time expired, and it took an incredibly awful defense to blow it?

(12-07-2024, 04:49 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: yea so you'd take Flacco over Burrow.

if you say no, then you are a hypocrite, since superbowls are the only things that matter

I haven’t looked at Flaccos record his first 5 seasons. I bet you haven’t either….

But what is his. Are we going through all the SB winning QB’s to see if I’d rather have a SB or not?

I’ll save you some time. Yes I’ll take a SB win. 

(12-07-2024, 04:59 PM)jj22 Wrote: I haven’t looked at Flaccos record his first 5 seasons. I bet you haven’t either….

But what is his. Are we going through all the SB winning QB’s to see if I’d rather have a SB or not?

well Flacco made it to 3 afc chip games and won a superbowl in his first 5 years

so yea im assuming you'd take Flacco over Burrow

and if that is the case, idk man. Get a brain scan too

Why do I feel like I’m watching the donkey brains scene from IASIP.

(12-07-2024, 05:01 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: well Flacco made it to 3 afc chip games and won a superbowl in his first 5 years

so yea im assuming you'd take Flacco over Burrow

and if that is the case, idk man. Get a brain scan too

See answer above. 

I guess you don’t like SB’s. To each their own. 

(12-07-2024, 05:03 PM)jj22 Wrote: See answer above. 

I guess you don’t like SB’s. To each their own. 

Flacco is better than Burrow. Got it

(12-07-2024, 05:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Why do I feel like I’m watching the donkey brains scene from IASIP.

Probably because you are being sold that SB’s mean nothing in real time and eating right on up. 

(12-07-2024, 05:04 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Flacco is better than Burrow. Got it

Now I baited you into looking at his stats which you failed to do before mentioning him. Shocking and bewildering you in your attempted attack, when I was well aware of his success his first 5 years, and you still bringing him up. 

The same people that blame the defense in games were they were obviously horrid, but Burrow still failed to Ice the game when he had a chance are usually the first ones that bawk when people say the defense being clutch was the reason we had great postseason runs.

Wild.

Burrow's lack of GWD 4QC is an indictment on Zac more than Burrow the main reason Zac needs replaced regardless of defense.

(12-07-2024, 04:33 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: was drew brees at fault for the multiple 7-9 seasons with the saints? 

Dont say burrow isnt brees, thats irrelevant

answer the question

(12-07-2024, 04:37 PM)jj22 Wrote: The losses aren’t on Burrow. Anyone who says otherwise are legit trolling.

But those with a critical eye on why we with a top QB can’t win a shootout, even 1, have merit. Growing merit.

Brees is an interesting comp. Early in his Saints career he was responsible (to an extent, like Burrow) but it was because he had such bad games in the 50-70 rating range. The thing about all those Saints teams is that, when they scored 30+, they would always be several games above 500 while when they gave up 30+, they would always be several games below 500. It was always feast or famine.

Now, when it comes to true shootouts. When both teams score 30+ in the game. 
Brees was 18-16. Won about half, as i would expect an elite QB to do.
Burrow is currently 2-7 in such games but 4 of them are just this year. 

(12-07-2024, 04:49 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: yea so you'd take Flacco over Burrow.

if you say no, then you are a hypocrite, since superbowls are the only things that matter

I’d take 2012 playoff Flacco over playing Burrow, yes.

Flacco throws bombs to beat Denver in epic clapback. Burrow gets bent by Chris Jones and Trent Mcduffie.

(12-07-2024, 04:39 PM)jj22 Wrote: Yes. Same with Rivers. It’s why they aren’t mentioned consistently with the Brady, Mannings, Mahomes, Big Ben, or even Eli’s of that generation. 

Would you choose Brees as a QB with his teams having those records a lot over the others QB’s. 

Answer that question. 

Nah. Drew Brees is in that conversation. Easily.

(12-07-2024, 04:48 PM)jj22 Wrote: Eli was clutch and that wins champions and really all you want in a QB. I mean stats are nice but we see this season how meaningless they really are. 

This always drives me batty. Stats are not meaningless because without those stats, you're not in a position to win in the end. 

That and "can't turn it around in one year" make my head explode.

There are 2 completely different arguments in this discussion. Putting the team in position to win at the end and leading the team to a win in the end. One is just as important as the other. 

Being able to overcome this shitty defense and Oline, to put a team in position to win, can't be ignored. 
Not being able to overcome this shitty defense and Oline, in the end, can't be ignored either.

(12-06-2024, 07:15 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So it's always someone else's fault? Ball in his hands. Chance to run or throw to get the job done. It's always someone else's failure? No one else has to overcome bad Online or bad defense or poor play calling or they're playing against the best defense in the NFL or the refs screwed us or the wind was blowing too hard or a reciever dropped a perfect ball or...etc, etc, etc. 

I hope he plays for 15 more years, wins multiple SBs, MVPs, all that shit. I hope he retires with the arguments as the GOAT. 

Not being able to be superman and pull games out late is going to make that very hard though. 

Maybe he should have thought about it before going the Batman route...

Nah, it is Burrow's fault too, you just said he failed every single time to make a clutch play to win us the game. I am just saying there 
have been other factors at fault as well, poor OL play, WR's not getting open etc.

He does need to make the throw to win us the game much more often and he has failed this year multiple times to win it for us. The 
historically bad Defense has made it really hard on Burrow is all I am saying, him playing this well and still not being able to get wins 
is just crazy is all I am saying. Mahomes gets all the help, his Defense, his IOL, the refs etc.

Burrow gets none of this help.

(12-06-2024, 07:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No, no one else has ever had to overcome this exact situation. It’s literally unprecedented for a QB to be putting up these numbers with a losing record.



Focusing on some subjective “clutch” gene or whatever the **** is ridiculous during a season like this, and is the definition of not seeing the forest for the trees.

Yep, historically Joe is the only QB to play this good and have so many losses at this point in a season.

(12-07-2024, 01:05 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That's not true at all (for me at least) since i've clearly posted, many times, that he's having an MVP type season and he's arguably the best QB in the NFL this year, statistically. He's playing superman with an offensive line and defense that are bottom of the barrel. 

1. Burrow is having the best year of his career.
2. Burrow is failing to produce GWDs multiple times this year.

Both of those things can exist at the same time. The entire argument is, some will look at his overall numbers and ignore his failures. Some will look at his failures and ignore his overall numbers and some will look at his overall numbers, look at his failures and be able to see that both can be happening at the same time. 

It's up to each person to decide which category they want to place themselves in.

Well, you did say he failed every single time to make a clutch play to win games this season which isn't true.

But I agree with everything else you say here Rfaulk.

(12-07-2024, 05:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nah, it is Burrow's fault too, you just said he failed every single time to make a clutch play to win us the game. I am just saying there 
have been other factors at fault as well, poor OL play, WR's not getting open etc.

He does need to make the throw to win us the game much more often and he has failed this year multiple times to win it for us. The 
historically bad Defense has made it really hard on Burrow is all I am saying, him playing this well and still not being able to get wins 
is just crazy is all I am saying. Mahomes gets all the help, his Defense, his IOL, the refs etc.

Burrow gets none of this help.


Yep, historically Joe is the only QB to play this good and have so many losses at this point in a season.


Well, you did say he failed every single time to make a clutch play to win games this season which isn't true.

But I agree with everything else you say here Rfaulk.

When i say "failed every single time", i'm talking about NE, KC, Balt x2 and LAC. He had the ball in his hands, at the very end, each of those games to make a difference. 

I can see the argument that he's had to be superman to be in that position (i agree). I'd just like to see him continue as the caped crusaider and convert at least 2 of those opportunities and then none of this clutch stuff is even being discussed. 

P.S. The Mahomes stuff from everyone needs to stop too. He does have the best ownership/FO/HC in the league. He's surrounded by elite and very good players all around. But when the game is on the line, he doesn't fail. He somehow finds a way to get the job done. And it has nothing to do with refs. When you put the ball in his hands to win the game, he finds a way to win the game.

(12-07-2024, 06:03 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: When i say "failed every single time", i'm talking about NE, KC, Balt x2 and LAC. He had the ball in his hands, at the very end, each of those games to make a difference. 

I can see the argument that he's had to be superman to be in that position (i agree). I'd just like to see him continue as the caped crusaider and convert at least 2 of those opportunities and then none of this clutch stuff is even being discussed. 

Well then, we agree completely as usual bud.