I know it sounds insane - trading our "best" defensive player on a defense that is currently terrible.

But, hear me out...

Yes, Trey is a great player and he's having a great season. Here are the facts of the matter, though:

Trey is unhappy and has already requested a trade.
He only has one year left on his deal.
He's going to be 32 at the end of next season. His best days are likely behind him and his stock is up right now.
His cap hit is around 20 million dollars.
And...let's be 1000% honest here...there have been games this year where Trey has dissapeared. He also isn't the greatest tackeler/run defender.

This defense has a ton of holes on it and it's going to need to be rebuilt from the ground up. Trading Trey will most likely net you a low first/high second round pick. It'll also clear up that 20 million in cap room. Use that money (along with some other defensive cuts) to completely revamp this defense. You can bring in a DT like Osa Odighizuwa and a safety like Jevon Holland or a CB like DJ Reed.

Trading Trey is the absolute quickest way to rebuild this defense. If you trade him, free up that cap and get some picks, then hit on those resources...we are talking about a one off-season rebuild. It needs to be done, especially if they have no intentions of extending him past next season.

(12-10-2024, 11:12 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I know it sounds insane - trading our "best" defensive player on a defense that is currently terrible.

But, hear me out...

Yes, Trey is a great player and he's having a great season. Here are the facts of the matter, though:

Trey is unhappy and has already requested a trade.
He only has one year left on his deal.
He's going to be 32 at the end of next season. His best days are likely behind him and his stock is up right now.
His cap hit is around 20 million dollars.
And...let's be 1000% honest here...there have been games this year where Trey has dissapeared. He also isn't the greatest tackeler/run defender.

This defense has a ton of holes on it and it's going to need to be rebuilt from the ground up. Trading Trey will most likely net you a low first/high second round pick. It'll also clear up that 20 million in cap room. Use that money (along with some other defensive cuts) to completely revamp this defense. You can bring in a DT like Osa Odighizuwa and a safety like Jevon Holland or a CB like DJ Reed.

Trading Trey is the absolute quickest way to rebuild this defense. If you trade him, free up that cap and get some picks, then hit on those resources...we are talking about a one off-season rebuild. It needs to be done, especially if they have no intentions of extending him past next season.

IMHO, Best post of the Day.  You need resources to turn around this defense, including draft capital and $$$ and trading Trey would do both.  

So what's the plan for the rebuild? Who are you going to find for less to replace at least half of Hendrickson's pass rush production while a draft pick develops?

Trey Hendrickson is an absolute bargain for his production level, and I haven't seen any signs of him dropping off. The best thing that the Bengals could do is throw Big Play Trey about a $50M/2 year extension his way, and call it a day.

(12-10-2024, 11:31 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So what's the plan for the rebuild? Who are you going to find for less to replace at least half of Hendrickson's pass rush production while a draft pick develops?

Trey Hendrickson is an absolute bargain for his production level, and I haven't seen any signs of him dropping off. The best thing that the Bengals could do is throw Big Play Trey about a $50M/2 year extension his way, and call it a day.

Hit free agency hard. You'd have about 40 million freed up if you were to cut Hubbard, Stone, Rankins, and then trade Trey. That's on top of the 60 million in cap space they currently have. 

100 million in cap space - go buy some tier 1 free agents then hit on a couple first round draft picks. Trey is a good value, but they need picks to reset this defense. There are just too many holes. 

(12-10-2024, 11:37 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Hit free agency hard. You'd have about 40 million freed up if you were to cut Hubbard, Stone, Rankins, and then trade Trey. That's on top of the 60 million in cap space they currently have. 

100 million in cap space - go buy some tier 1 free agents then hit on a couple first round draft picks. Trey is a good value, but they need picks to reset this defense. There are just too many holes. 

That's not a plan, that's just some knee-jerk suggestion. Who are you targeting, and at what contract values? Who better for equal or less money is going to fill those other 3 holes that you just created? It's really not as simple as "we'll just hit free agency, hard". 

If the FO trades Trey Hendrickson(which isn't a bad plan) then I would hope it would be for another player. A guy like Kerby Joseph would be a nice addition and makes sense for both teams.

Hitting on those resources as the OP worded it, is the problem. Our hitting on resources track record isn't so great at the moment. 

(12-10-2024, 11:53 AM)J24 Wrote: If the FO trades Trey Hendrickson(which isn't a bad plan) then I would hope it would be for another player. A guy like Kerby Joseph would be a nice addition and makes sense for both teams.

That would be fantastic, but do you really think that the Lions would trade an up and coming star player, who happens to lead the league in INTs for a guy with only a couple of high production years left in him? I mean I'd be happy with that trade, I just don't see them doing that.

(12-10-2024, 11:40 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's not a plan, that's just some knee-jerk suggestion. Who are you targeting, and at what contract values? Who better for equal or less money is going to fill those other 3 holes that you just created? It's really not as simple as "we'll just hit free agency, hard". 

It's a "concept" of a plan. 

I gave you some names. 100 million in cap space. This 100 million is without cutting Cappa (who will get cut). 

WR - Extend Chasae - 4 years 125 million. 32 million a year
DT - Osa Odighizuwa - 4 years 100 million. 25 million a year. 
Safety - Javon Holland - 4 years 65 million. 16 million a year. 
Edge - Josh Sweat - 3 years 75 million. 25 million a year. 

You added three really good players on defense. 

Draft another edge like Nic Scourton and a CB like Benjamin Morrison in the first couple rounds. One of those with the pick you aquired in the trading of Trey. This defense is built for the next 4-5 years.

(12-10-2024, 11:53 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Hitting on those resources as the OP worded it, is the problem. Our hitting on resources track record isn't so great at the moment. 

Agree with this 100%. 

They have gone dumpster diving and taken too many chances in FA. They need to pay for good players, not take chances on guys possibly "ascending". Hitting in the draft is an entirely different issue. 

(12-10-2024, 11:12 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I know it sounds insane - trading our "best" defensive player on a defense that is currently terrible.

But, hear me out...

Yes, Trey is a great player and he's having a great season. Here are the facts of the matter, though:

Trey is unhappy and has already requested a trade.
He only has one year left on his deal.
He's going to be 32 at the end of next season. His best days are likely behind him and his stock is up right now.
His cap hit is around 20 million dollars.
And...let's be 1000% honest here...there have been games this year where Trey has dissapeared. He also isn't the greatest tackeler/run defender.

This defense has a ton of holes on it and it's going to need to be rebuilt from the ground up. Trading Trey will most likely net you a low first/high second round pick. It'll also clear up that 20 million in cap room. Use that money (along with some other defensive cuts) to completely revamp this defense. You can bring in a DT like Osa Odighizuwa and a safety like Jevon Holland or a CB like DJ Reed.

Trading Trey is the absolute quickest way to rebuild this defense. If you trade him, free up that cap and get some picks, then hit on those resources...we are talking about a one off-season rebuild. It needs to be done, especially if they have no intentions of extending him past next season.

Yeah, no.

I'd make Hendrickson a Bengal for life: if he can play even 7 more years at 10 sacks, he'd be arguably the greatest defensive player in our history, after Riley.

He is just too much of a menace to let walk or trade.

(12-10-2024, 12:03 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That would be fantastic, but do you really think that the Lions would trade an up and coming star player, who happens to lead the league in INTs for a guy with only a couple of high production years left in him? I mean I'd be happy with that trade, I just don't see them doing that.

Pass rushers like him who don't take a pounding in the run game, play until they're 35-40 easily, he's got many years left in the tank, especially since NO hardly used him in his first 3 years.

(12-10-2024, 12:18 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It's a "concept" of a plan. 

I gave you some names. 100 million in cap space. This 100 million is without cutting Cappa (who will get cut). 

WR - Extend Chasae - 4 years 125 million. 32 million a year
DT - Osa Odighizuwa - 4 years 100 million. 25 million a year. 
Safety - Javon Holland - 4 years 65 million. 16 million a year. 
Edge - Josh Sweat - 3 years 75 million. 25 million a year. 

You added three really good players on defense. 

Draft another edge like Nic Scourton and a CB like Benjamin Morrison in the first couple rounds. One of those with the pick you aquired in the trading of Trey. This defense is built for the next 4-5 years.

Don't forget to account for any re-signings that the team may do, as well. And, while it "looks" like the Bengals could have around $100M in cap space, whatever number we think it is, typically turns out to be about 20% less according to the team each year. I like the players you chose, but I think that Holland is going to be a $20M/per guy and Sweat would be a huge gamble at $25M/per. He's only had a single season of double digit sacks, the rest is similar to Hubbard production numbers. You're wanting to replace BJ Hill with Odighizuwa for $25M/per? I think they'd be better off re-signing BJ Hill for 2 years at $25M total.

I get the plan but I'm not convinced Bengals FO is creative enough to do these types of deals.

Bengals will likely keep him which I would support... find a way to get better by tagging and trading Tee.

(12-10-2024, 12:34 PM)QueenCity Wrote: I get the plan but I'm not convinced Bengals FO is creative enough to do these types of deals.

Bengals will likely keep him which I would support... find a way to get better by tagging and trading Tee.

The evidence shows that the Bengals are much better at picking WRs than they are Edge rushers.

(12-10-2024, 12:03 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That would be fantastic, but do you really think that the Lions would trade an up and coming star player, who happens to lead the league in INTs for a guy with only a couple of high production years left in him? I mean I'd be happy with that trade, I just don't see them doing that.

Yes, that's why I stated it.

The Lions can't pay everyone and have 2 big contracts coming up with Adian Hutchinson this offseason and  Brian Branch(another saftey) in 2026.

(12-10-2024, 11:31 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So what's the plan for the rebuild? Who are you going to find for less to replace at least half of Hendrickson's pass rush production while a draft pick develops?

Trey Hendrickson is an absolute bargain for his production level, and I haven't seen any signs of him dropping off. The best thing that the Bengals could do is throw Big Play Trey about a $50M/2 year extension his way, and call it a day.

Yeah...I'm conceptually for trading for draft picks and getting younger...

But, this team doesn't draft well and they don't sign guys in that are upgrades in free agency. Replacing Trey could become like replacing Bates/Whitworth.

The quickest way to rebuild is to not sign Chase or Tee. It's insane, but it's the fastest.

It seems to me that the situation with Trey is not unsolvable. Do fans realize that the Bengals have restructured his contract every single year? The Bengals couldn't have renegotiated with him when he asked even if they wanted to. BTW, he just had his Bday and is 30 now which will make him 31 at the end of next season. Up until this year he has been making franchise money, what the extension is lacking is any signing bonus/guaranteed money.

Of course I don't know what he's looking for, but paying him close to franchise money with a signing bonus and roster bonuses for 10+ sacks per year seems worth it. I might feel different if the Bengals had a really good backup, but if and until that happens...

Lastly, this seems like just adding to the narrative that the Bengals aren't willing to take the steps needed to win, something they do not need right now.

(12-10-2024, 11:12 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I know it sounds insane - trading our "best" defensive player on a defense that is currently terrible.

But, hear me out...

Yes, Trey is a great player and he's having a great season. Here are the facts of the matter, though:

Trey is unhappy and has already requested a trade.
He only has one year left on his deal.
He's going to be 32 at the end of next season. His best days are likely behind him and his stock is up right now.
His cap hit is around 20 million dollars.
And...let's be 1000% honest here...there have been games this year where Trey has dissapeared. He also isn't the greatest tackeler/run defender.

This defense has a ton of holes on it and it's going to need to be rebuilt from the ground up. Trading Trey will most likely net you a low first/high second round pick. It'll also clear up that 20 million in cap room. Use that money (along with some other defensive cuts) to completely revamp this defense. You can bring in a DT like Osa Odighizuwa and a safety like Jevon Holland or a CB like DJ Reed.

Trading Trey is the absolute quickest way to rebuild this defense. If you trade him, free up that cap and get some picks, then hit on those resources...we are talking about a one off-season rebuild. It needs to be done, especially if they have no intentions of extending him past next season.

If we have no intention of extending Trey I am all for it honestly. Personally think we are going to extend him, but we could get like 
you said a low 1st round pick for him I am sure. Really want Odighizuwa in stripes and a Corner like DJ Reed. Add another End, bring 
back Ossai and allow Murphy to grow while adding more talent on Defense with a new DC and we could make a big turnaround on D.

(12-10-2024, 03:57 PM)puddycat Wrote: The quickest way to rebuild is to not sign Chase or Tee.  It's insane, but it's the fastest.

It seems to me that the situation with Trey is not unsolvable.  Do fans realize that the Bengals have restructured his contract every single year? The Bengals couldn't have renegotiated with him when he asked even if they wanted to. BTW, he just had his Bday and is 30 now which will make him 31 at the end of next season. Up until this year he has been making franchise money, what the extension is lacking is any signing bonus/guaranteed money.

Of course I don't know what he's looking for, but paying him close to franchise money with a signing bonus and roster bonuses for 10+ sacks per year seems worth it.  I might feel different if the Bengals had a really good backup, but if and until that happens...

Lastly, this seems like just adding to the narrative that the Bengals aren't willing to take the steps needed to win, something they do not need right now.

I'd trade Tee because, while he is good, Burrow can make anyone look good opposite of Chase.

The thoughts about trading Trey because he's getting older and and has that big cap hit is possibly a good, but other teams would also see that and might not offer enough in compensation.