(12-31-2024, 08:57 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: He drpped a couple of difficult carches...we went to all home games wand watched all the others..yoshi dropped a few very diffucult catches...higgins and chase also dropped a few..and may I add not so difficult..unlike burton he does run his routes correctly..

He's improving but he's not near Tee Higgins level and he won't be there next year either. Earlier this year there were several instances of Yoshi running through zones, where he should have sat his route down and it caused an incompletion. He's getting better and he could be a solid Boyd-type replacement in the future.

(12-31-2024, 09:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Bottom line is would you rather see Tee Higgins as WR2 or Iosivas? Iosivas has made some good gains in his game this year, but I don't feel like he's at a level to replace a Tee Higgins. With Higgins' value dropping after two years of hamstring injuries, I think that he could be signed to a manageable contract.

if the Bengals can address their many needs and keep Higgins I am fine with that..If not..whether it be Yoshi or somebody else..if this organization cannot find a couple of receivers that can catch a football...then we are in dire straights..You all keep making stuff about Higgins value dropping in an effort to promote your argument that he will somehow sign for less money..you are just making stuff up..Higgins willl end up getting 23-25 million ..plus a signing bonus wherever he plays..

(01-01-2025, 12:50 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Would the team save any money cutting McPherson and rolling with York to free up dollars for other positions?

If yes, would it be a smart football move in the best interest of the team?

No. York is bad bad. Career 70% makes in 22 games and he's missed 3 XPs. 5/9 on 50+ attempts.

(01-01-2025, 01:23 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He's improving but he's not near Tee Higgins level and he won't be there next year either. Earlier this year there were several instances of Yoshi running through zones, where he should have sat his route down and it caused an incompletion. He's getting better and he could be a solid Boyd-type replacement in the future.

and there were several instances of every receiver in the NFL doing the very  same thing. coach...And to counterbalance that..think back to those numerous miraculous catches that he has made ..quite comparable to the Tee Higgins of the league..He is a fast, athletically inclined receiver..And here's where you and others have to rein in your expectations..all we need are a couple of solid Boyd like receivers to balance Chase..Let me ask you something else coach..why does Tee Higgins still drop easy passes @ this point in his career..you seem to conveniently forget that in your coaching evaluations.. 

(01-01-2025, 01:30 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No. York is bad bad. Career 70% makes in 22 games and he's missed 3 XPs. 5/9 on 50+ attempts.

I've not checked out his career stats so thanks for the info.

(12-31-2024, 07:49 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Uhm, maybe you look. Iosivas is still developing. He took a nice step forward this year after training with his offseason coach. However, he still made enough blunders that I wouldn't be comfortable with him starting in the WR2 position.

you mean like dropping easilly catchable passes like Tee Higgins still does

(01-01-2025, 01:32 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: and there were several instances of every receiver in the NFL doing the very  same thing. coach...And to counterbalance that..think back to those numerous miraculous catches that he has made ..quite comparable to the Tee Higgins of the league..He is a fast, athletically inclined receiver..And here's where you and others have to rein in your expectations..all we need are a couple of solid Boyd like receivers to balance Chase..Let me ask you something else coach..why does Tee Higgins still drop easy passes @ this point in his career..you seem to conveniently forget that in your coaching evaluations.. 

Like i said. Yoshi is good and he has a lot of talent to work with and mold but he's not near Tee Higgins level and i don't really see him getting there. It would be nice if he did but a solid Tyler Boyd type is what he looks like. Certainly worth keeping but i wouldn't just slot him in as a #2 next year. 

(01-01-2025, 01:51 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Like i said. Yoshi is good and he has a lot of talent to work with and mold but he's not near Tee Higgins level and i don't really see him getting there. It would be nice if he did but a solid Tyler Boyd type is what he looks like. Certainly worth keeping but i wouldn't just slot him in as a #2 next year. 

and again..all this team needs are a couple of reliable Boyd type receivers to supplement Chase..You know this discussion about Higgins has become ridiculous..Our team has 
desperate  needs on both the interior offensive and defensive lines..Our linebackers are not very good..God only knows what is going on with Pratt..Our defensive backfield is like an airport without air traffic controllers, players are all over the place crashing into one another..And as you well know..even during the Superbowl year and the AFC championship game season...these issues reared their ugly heads on many occasions..I don't know if the aforementioned can be addressed by next season..We need more scouts and a real GM..like Detroit..we need a good plan..and stick to it..I watched them play a couple of days ago..they have drafted well and have very good players all over the board.........And they have done well with pickups like DJ REader...................I think we are making this Higgins thing bigger than it is because Joe is seemingly weighing in on the matter..If they can keep Higgins at a reasonable price and address their many other needs I have no issues with that..BUt the bottom line is ..and its reared its ugly head this year...MIke Brown really does need to retire..thank you for keeping football in our city..we need a GM and we also need to at least double the amount of scouts that we have..Its time to quit messing around with Lou and Frank Pollack..they need gone ..we need new voices..And if this team comes out next year..once again and plays miserable @ the beginning of the season..as much as I like Zac ..he too needs to go..................................................IF not we will always be close.."but no cigar" even with Joe.I would imagine that if you were to take a survey of every contributor on this Board ..and asked them if they had confidence in the ability of the organization to draft well and  develop players..it would be 80% no...15% maybe 5% yes..We have much bigger problems than whether Higgins stays or not..I like Tee..he is a good receiver and seems to be a good guy..But regardless of what happens .he will be a multimillionaire many times over and be just fine..Happy New year

some of you underestimate what Boyd was if youre saying Yoshi can be a "Boyd type"

TB at his best was a 70-90 catch guy with 800-1000 yards.

(01-01-2025, 01:23 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He's improving but he's not near Tee Higgins level and he won't be there next year either. Earlier this year there were several instances of Yoshi running through zones, where he should have sat his route down and it caused an incompletion. He's getting better and he could be a solid Boyd-type replacement in the future.

Yoshi has also been inconsistent with contested catches which he would see alot more if he stepped outside to the boundary. He would see more back shoulders, slants, quick in, curls etc. All the body the defender routes.

Hobby, Burks, and Kovacs have to go along with Lou. That's an important distinction considering the Bengals are known for sticking new Coordinators with position coaches already in place.

(01-01-2025, 02:28 PM)Synric Wrote: Yoshi has also been inconsistent with contested catches which he would see alot more if he stepped outside to the boundary. He would see more back shoulders, slants, quick in, curls etc. All the body the defender routes.

and yoshi..like Higgins has made some brilliant catches..and the mighty Tee Higgins has and continues to drop easy passes even when there is no defenders in the area..ok

(01-01-2025, 02:28 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: some of you underestimate what Boyd was if youre saying Yoshi can be a "Boyd type"

TB at his best was a 70-90 catch guy with 800-1000 yards.

Frank I am beginning to think like you..but then I am pulled back..get a receiver in the 1st or second round of the draft..but then reality  settles in..I just don't have the confidence in this organization drafting well in later rounds to help address the many needs we have..and of course developing those players

(01-01-2025, 02:37 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: and yoshi..like Higgins has made some brilliant catches..and the mighty Tee Higgins has and continues to drop easy passes even when there is no defenders in the area..ok

Tee Higgins has 3 drops on 104 targets. Andrei Iosivas has 4 drops on 58 targets. 

That means Higgins drop rate is 3% and Iosivas 7% so over double the drop rate. Ja'Marr Chase is 9 drops on 161 targets a drop rate of 5.5%. Tee easily has the best hands on the roster.

My 2025 plan starts with going out of character and cutting under performers to create cap space. I have been all over the board on paying 2 WR's huge bucks, but landed on paying 2 WR's big bucks who are very young and have great chemistry with JB is essential.

Cuts
Rankins
Hubbard
Moss
Cappa
Stone
Would create over 32 million in cash and cap space to go with 59 million projected for 2025.

FA Signings prior to draft
BJ Hill
Higgins
Chase
Starting Guard to replace Cappa (Risner is an example)
Edge rusher to pair with Trey on 3rd down (Chase Young is young and a FA)
Vet CB (Reid of Jets is set to be a FA)
Vet Safety or keep Stone

Draft
Round 1 - Tyler Warren - give Yoshi tie to develop as a 3rd WR and become a much better offense as Warren is a complete TE. I see Sample on the field and I immediately would play run if an opposing defense. Warren would make defensed respect both run and pass anytime he is on the field.
Round 2 - Booker guard from Bama (if he is not available either best OG available or best DT available
Round 3 - DT or Guard (see round 2)
Round 4 - RB
Round 5 - CB
Round 6 - BPA or WR

Bengals FO loyalty can be a negative. The players I listed to cut did not earn their 2025 contract. So will say it is a negative if we cut players, it can be, but it can also light a fire for those under contract to work harder and play better.

(01-01-2025, 02:52 PM)Synric Wrote: Tee Higgins has 3 drops on 104 targets. Andrei Iosivas has 4 drops on 58 targets. 

That means Higgins drop rate is 3% and Iosivas 7% so over double the drop rate. Ja'Marr Chase is 9 drops on 161 targets a drop rate of 5.5%. Tee easily has the best hands on the roster.

please stop..its miniscule..I could come back and say lets factor the great tee Higgins having more years in the league ..lets come up with some formula to factor that in..I don't care if they bring Higgins back as long as its not a salary burden that affects our many other needs..and by the way..I have seen Higgins drop the ball..with no defenders in the area on plays that kill momentum..I have seen Yoshi drop a few very difficult catches with defenders all over him..Happy New year

(01-01-2025, 03:09 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: please stop..its miniscule..I could come back and say lets factor the great tee Higgins having more years in the league ..lets come up with some formula to factor that in..I don't care if they bring Higgins back as long as its not a salary burden that affects our many other needs..and by the way..I have seen Higgins drop the ball..with no defenders in the area on plays that kill momentum..I have seen Yoshi drop a few very difficult catches with defenders all over him..Happy New year

Guy that is not miniscule. That's double the drop rate in contested catch situations. Then you're asking him to run more contested routes outside on the boundary? No thanks.

(01-01-2025, 03:02 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: My 2025 plan starts with going out of character and cutting under performers to create cap space. I have been all over the board on paying 2 WR's huge bucks, but landed on paying 2 WR's big bucks who are very young and have great chemistry with JB is essential.

Cuts
Rankins
Hubbard
Moss
Cappa
Stone
Would create over 32 million in cash and cap space to go with 59 million projected for 2025.

FA Signings prior to draft
BJ Hill
Higgins
Chase
Starting Guard to replace Cappa (Risner is an example)
Edge rusher to pair with Trey on 3rd down (Chase Young is young and a FA)
Vet CB (Reid of Jets is set to be a FA)
Vet Safety or keep Stone

Draft
Round 1 - Tyler Warren - give Yoshi tie to develop as a 3rd WR and become a much better offense as Warren is a complete TE. I see Sample on the field and I immediately would play run if an opposing defense. Warren would make defensed respect both run and pass anytime he is on the field.
Round 2 - Booker guard from Bama (if he is not available either best OG available or best DT available
Round 3 - DT or Guard (see round 2)
Round 4 - RB
Round 5 - CB
Round 6 - BPA or WR

Bengals FO loyalty can be a negative. The players I listed to cut did not earn their 2025 contract. So will say it is a negative if we cut players, it can be, but it can also light a fire for those under contract to work harder and play better.

great ..well thought out post..we have been plagued with issues even during our Superbowl run..They had the owner of Detroit..some lady on the other night (Ford).an interview in 2022..she said "we have a plan and we are going to stick to it"..You know the truth..without Burrow and chase the Bengals would be a very mediocre team..WE NEED A PLAN and we NEED TO STICK TO IT..happy new year

(01-01-2025, 03:13 PM)Synric Wrote: Guy that is not miniscule. That's double the drop rate in contested catch situations. Then you're asking him to run more contested routes outside on the boundary? No thanks.

any discussions about Higgins are non productive..and again the only reason such a big deal is being made because Joe has chimed in..The reality is ..without Burrow and Chase this team is mediocre..again..I don't care if they bring back Higgins as long as it does not hinder our abilityto improve in the many other areas that need improvement. and people like yourself that beleive he will take 15 million a year are setting yourself up for a major disappointment.Frankly..I would not bring back Higgins because he has a chronic hamstring problem that most likely will get worse..But that's just me..As far as determining progress etc..you and I are not coaches, we are not at practice ..but thanks for your insights..There is no argument to be won

(12-31-2024, 07:44 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: No frank..look at yoshis  princeton college tapes...he is an extremely capable reciever...excellent speed...he can run routes..extremely athletic..he looked like a hawaiian tee higgins..there is absolutely no reason why he could not be a number two or three receiver..the dude could run all kind of routes all day long and become a top notch player

Yoshi a relative?