In the column of "too little, too late", at least for Joe Burrow and the Bengals this season, it seems that the ever so reactive NFL is doing what had already should have been done.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/nfl-might-be-changing-facemask-reviews-that-impacted-joe-burrow/ar-AA1xmUVQ?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=af84a88087534726b68546514be3282b&ei=17

Quote:Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Joe Burrow was on the wrong end of some obvious facemask penalties that didn't earn flags last season.

Some of those plays went on to see the offenders fined -- not that it helped the Bengals much in hindsight. Other major misses somehow didn't get fined.

And now the NFL might be doing something about it.

As it stands now, the NFL could rule to change things up this offseason and make facemask penalties subject to replay assistance. And it appears they're already doing so in the playoffs right now.

Considering Burrow seems to suffer from an inordinate amount of these and referees still seem to call them for some quarterbacks more than others, this is probably a good thing for the Bengals -- especially because Burrow himself refuses to complain in his own favor toward referees during games.

(11 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: In the column of "too little, too late", at least for Joe Burrow and the Bengals this season, it seems that the ever so reactive NFL is doing what had already should have been done.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/nfl-might-be-changing-facemask-reviews-that-impacted-joe-burrow/ar-AA1xmUVQ?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=af84a88087534726b68546514be3282b&ei=17

Nice and this should be much less subjective (thus easy to call and not delay the game too much) than trying to review pass interference which actually happens on every play.

(10 hours ago)Stewy Wrote: Nice and this should be much less subjective (thus easy to call and not delay the game too much) than trying to review pass interference which actually happens on every play.

What's puzzling to me is given how severe and blatant some of those facemask pulls and twists were, how did they go uncalled in the first place? With so much emphasis on player safety, QB safety first and foremost, it almost seems like a dereliction of duty on the part of officiating crews serving those games. I know that the NFL has a rigorous review process of all game officials each offseason, perhaps some will not be offered positions next season?

(10 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: What's puzzling to me is given how severe and blatant some of those facemask pulls and twists were, how did they go uncalled in the first place? With so much emphasis on player safety, QB safety first and foremost, it almost seems like a dereliction of duty on the part of officiating crews serving those games. I know that the NFL has a rigorous review process of all game officials each offseason, perhaps some will not be offered positions next season?

I'll tell you why, and I've said it before. I am totally convinced the officials are using proxies and betting on games now that it is so easy to do. They are not full-time and not really paid that great, so the temptation for them to bet on a game they can somewhat control has to be great. No one can tell me they legit missed that many facemasks on Burrow. It would be different if it were a running back or receiver having their mask grabbed, but you are not even allowed to touch a QB's head. No way you miss that. Yeah, they ignored them on purpose and I suspect it has to do with money.

Serious question, how many rule changes have come because of problematic hits or actions against Bengals players

(10 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: I'll tell you why, and I've said it before. I am totally convinced the officials are using proxies and betting on games now that it is so easy to do. They are not full-time and not really paid that great, so the temptation for them to bet on a game they can somewhat control has to be great. No one can tell me they legit missed that many facemasks on Burrow. It would be different if it were a running back or receiver having their mask grabbed, but you are not even allowed to touch a QB's head. No way you miss that. Yeah, they ignored them on purpose and I suspect it has to do with money.

With the penalty for players being a one year suspension for gambling on NFL games and two years if they gamble on their own team's games, the idea that the NFL officials are gambling on games just seems a little bit 'tin foil hattish' for me.

(10 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: With the penalty for players being a one year suspension for gambling on NFL games and two years if they gamble on their own team's games, the idea that the NFL officials are gambling on games just seems a little bit 'tin foil hattish' for me.

And that seems a little naive to me. Given the fact the league vet minimum is almost a million a year or so, and new officials make 100K and the top officials make about 250K, it's not really the same thing is it? How easy is it for an official to enter into an arrangement with a lifelong friend or family member to enter bets online for them. 
Michael Franzese, while talking about the Boston College Point shaving racket flat out said they (the mob) never targeted professional athletes, because they make enough to pay their gambling losses. They targeted college athletes, because they could tempt them with money, cars, etc. And they told them, "Hey we're fans, we don't want you to lose, we want you to win... just don't cover the spread"
And you think it's tin foil time that the same thing could be going on with referees, or that refs could be doing it on their own now that sports gambling is legal and they chances they get caught are almost nil??? Really? Because I can easily see how it could be going on. "Hey, we want to make sure Green Bay doesn't cover the points this week, there's 500K in it for you if that happens." 

All it shows to me is the rules and refs are broken, and we need new management to fix these one-sided calls.

When you have a ref responsible for watching the QB to protect him and you fail week after week then it is intentional which demands the refs to be fired and replaced in my eyes because there is obvious corruption from the top down.

yikes, this will make football much slower.. rather, I hope it can be considered when a play is reviewable.. but to review a call for a facemask.. hmmm no..

(9 hours ago)Bengalitis Wrote: yikes, this will make football much slower.. rather, I hope it can be considered when a play is reviewable.. but to review a call for a facemask.. hmmm no..

When you figure the danger involved in a facemask grab and turn, I fully think it should be reviewable. One of these days they are going to yank Burrow's facemask and he's not going to get up.

(10 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: What's puzzling to me is given how severe and blatant some of those facemask pulls and twists were, how did they go uncalled in the first place? With so much emphasis on player safety, QB safety first and foremost, it almost seems like a dereliction of duty on the part of officiating crews serving those games. I know that the NFL has a rigorous review process of all game officials each offseason, perhaps some will not be offered positions next season?

Aside from conspiracy theories about betting, I think it shows that whining works.

Feels like this is just something to get people to shut up kind of like making PI reviewable. Doesn't challenging PI have a pretty abysmal success rate? Probably will be the same with facemask.

If anything, the central office in NY should just be able to call it in rather than stopping play to do a review. Hopefully it doesn't slow things down too much.

Shouldn't take too long to review these calls typically are pretty cut and dry... my guess 30 seconds at best.

On the topic of whining our Superstar Cool QB could do wonders for his career and the Bengals if he'd be willing to lay into a ref every once in a while. I know he has a reputation for just getting up and going to the next play but he misses out on a ton of calls.

(10 hours ago)pally Wrote: Serious question, how many rule changes have come because of problematic hits or actions against Bengals players

I've honestly lost count.

(10 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: I'll tell you why, and I've said it before. I am totally convinced the officials are using proxies and betting on games now that it is so easy to do. They are not full-time and not really paid that great, so the temptation for them to bet on a game they can somewhat control has to be great. No one can tell me they legit missed that many facemasks on Burrow. It would be different if it were a running back or receiver having their mask grabbed, but you are not even allowed to touch a QB's head. No way you miss that. Yeah, they ignored them on purpose and I suspect it has to do with money.

I believe this. Part-time refs, whose main jobs are unrelated to the NFL, and massive amounts that could be made through gambling -- what could go wrong?  And maybe the refs don't even slant their calls for their own lucrative benefit -- it could be for their extended family members, their colleagues at their main job, etc. It seems impossible for the NFL to officiate and seems very high benefit/low risk for an official.

(9 hours ago)QueenCity Wrote: Shouldn't take too long to review these calls typically are pretty cut and dry... my guess 30 seconds at best.

On the topic of whining our Superstar Cool QB could do wonders for his career and the Bengals if he'd be willing to lay into a ref every once in a while.  I know he has a reputation for just getting up and going to the next play but he misses out on a ton of calls.

I have a lot more respect for Joe Burrow because he doesn't whine and exaggerate things like Mahomes and Allen. But there's no question the refs slant things towards those who complain. Sometimes the flags come out well after a play and seems correlated with the players immediately complaining.

(8 hours ago)Nepa Wrote: I have a lot more respect for Joe Burrow because he doesn't whine and exaggerate things like Mahomes and Allen. But there's no question the refs slant things towards those who complain. Sometimes the flags come out well after a play and seems correlated with the players immediately complaining.

Same but that's before I thought once he got some tenure in the NFL those calls would come... and they haven't.

(10 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: And that seems a little naive to me. Given the fact the league vet minimum is almost a million a year or so, and new officials make 100K and the top officials make about 250K, it's not really the same thing is it? How easy is it for an official to enter into an arrangement with a lifelong friend or family member to enter bets online for them. 
Michael Franzese, while talking about the Boston College Point shaving racket flat out said they (the mob) never targeted professional athletes, because they make enough to pay their gambling losses. They targeted college athletes, because they could tempt them with money, cars, etc. And they told them, "Hey we're fans, we don't want you to lose, we want you to win... just don't cover the spread"
And you think it's tin foil time that the same thing could be going on with referees, or that refs could be doing it on their own now that sports gambling is legal and they chances they get caught are almost nil??? Really? Because I can easily see how it could be going on. "Hey, we want to make sure Green Bay doesn't cover the points this week, there's 500K in it for you if that happens." 

In the day and age where the digital footprint is everywhere, you don't feel that the NFL is smart enough to track who's doing what on the online gambling sites? I'd venture to say that the league likely makes players, personnel and officials all sign full disclosure forms allowing for tracking of their online activities.

This is not up for a red flag challenge. It's up for replay assist. It's a quicker thing that replay catches and calls down to the ref to throw the flag. The delay wouldn't be more than a few seconds. 

(10 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: With the penalty for players being a one year suspension for gambling on NFL games and two years if they gamble on their own team's games, the idea that the NFL officials are gambling on games just seems a little bit 'tin foil hattish' for me.

You are speaking about "penalty for players," not for officials, and yet conclude on that basis of penalties for players that officials would not risk being associated with gambling. The reality is officials are only part-time and have another full-time job that is their main income source (some own businesses, are accountants, high school teachers, own farms, are bankers, dentists, etc.). A player has everything to lose, including their main income source, loss of money from commercials, and high-profile awareness of their crime. For an official, the benefit/risk is very different.

In addition to a greater risk of officials being influenced in their calls because of gambling -- either directly or because they know their family or friends or colleagues are gambling on the game -- the fact that they are part-time means they also are subject more to pressures to be biased in their calls. Their friends, family, colleagues and their own favorite teams enter into the mix, because this is only their part-time job.