(01-16-2025, 07:06 PM)J24 Wrote: I think Golden can be a good D coordinator and I thought Lou was a good D coordinator. My problem isn't with either guy.

My problem is the team thought they needed a change at the Coordinator position but then they decide to hire someone with a similar philosophy? It doesn't make much sense to me?

I'd you are going to make a change than make a damn change.  

The problem with Anarumo's scheme is he needs (or needed) very specific skill sets and talented players to make it succeed.
If they didn't have a center field FS quite like Bates or a 1T penetrator and run stopper like Reader, it was pretty bad.

If a defensive scheme needs specific players/skill sets to succeed and those guys aren't already on the team or very rare, it will take time to get the scheme to work.

Hopefully whoever becomes DC can implement a scheme that doesn't have this much dependence.

(Yesterday, 12:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The problem with Anarumo's scheme is he needs (or needed) very specific skill sets and talented players to make it succeed.
If they didn't have a center field FS quite like Bates or a 1T penetrator and run stopper like Reader, it was pretty bad.

If a defensive scheme needs specific players/skill sets to succeed and those guys aren't already on the team or very rare, it will take time to get the scheme to work.

Hopefully whoever becomes DC can implement a scheme that doesn't have this much dependence.

Controlling the middle of the field is key to success in any defensive scheme.

(Yesterday, 12:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The problem with Anarumo's scheme is he needs (or needed) very specific skill sets and talented players to make it succeed.
If they didn't have a center field FS quite like Bates or a 1T penetrator and run stopper like Reader, it was pretty bad.

If a defensive scheme needs specific players/skill sets to succeed and those guys aren't already on the team or very rare, it will take time to get the scheme to work.

Hopefully whoever becomes DC can implement a scheme that doesn't have this much dependence.

That is the problem with ANY scheme coach. 

The coach should devise a scheme to get the most out of his players and fit the team. Not the other way around. 

When you get (or lose) players with unique or superior skills, then you tweak things to take advantage or cover it up. 

(01-16-2025, 06:59 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: ...we can find fault with most any pick..if ..in fact...its golden we are getting one of the best defensive coordinators in college..pretty impressive

I don't know enough about coaches to comment one way or another, so I am just going to be happy with whomever we get and wait to see the results before assuming the worst.

(Yesterday, 01:36 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I don't know enough about coaches to comment one way or another, so I am just going to be happy with whomever we get and wait to see the results before assuming the worst.

I agree, I am no expert and based on my experience many in here who claim to be are not either. Fans tend to focus on one or two candidates, if their guy is not picked, they immediately trash the FO before the coach has a chance to be good or bad.

Many already have saved tapes in their head of the failures of MB and the FO so use them to trash the decision unless their pick is chosen. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy played out prior to success or failure.

(Yesterday, 12:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The problem with Anarumo's scheme is he needs (or needed) very specific skill sets and talented players to make it succeed.
If they didn't have a center field FS quite like Bates or a 1T penetrator and run stopper like Reader, it was pretty bad.

If a defensive scheme needs specific players/skill sets to succeed and those guys aren't already on the team or very rare, it will take time to get the scheme to work.

Hopefully whoever becomes DC can implement a scheme that doesn't have this much dependence.

stop with the scheme stuff..we need players that can tackle and be in the right position to do so

(Yesterday, 02:51 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: stop with the scheme stuff..we need players that can tackle and be in the right position to do so

That stuff is fundamental for every scheme, I agree.
What I am referring to though is, for example, what is the FS being asked to do coverage-wise? From Anarumo's scheme, the FS needed to be very rangy like Bates, which is rare.
The DL also doesn't have much (any) creativity in Anarumo's scheme, so it's heavily reliant on guys being able to handle 1-on-1 matchups or command double teams and get off blocks all the time. Someone like Reader was vital because he could do that better than the guys they have now.
Or do they have the right DBs who can handle zone coverage vs man? Those are (somewhat) different skillsets and matter if you don't have the players to accommodate said scheme.

So a lot of talk about who we want as a DC, I don't hear many names being mentioned for OL coach.

(Yesterday, 12:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If they didn't have a center field FS quite like Bates or a 1T penetrator and run stopper like Reader, it was pretty bad.

And even if they had those guys more often than not it was still bad.

We had Reader in 2023 and still had the 31st overall/21st scoring defense, a big part of that being 26th rushing/30th rushing ypc.

We had both in 2021 and still had the 18th overall/17th scoring defense, and while we did have a good rushing defense that year (5th rushing/13th rushing ypc) we had the 26th pass defense.

Our good team defense in 2022, Reader only played 10 games and of those 10 he got hurt in 1 early on and in 1 (his first game back) he was completely absent from the stat sheet.

- - - - - - - - 

I swear that the 2021 playoff run was simultaneously both the highlight of my Bengals fan life, but also the most damaging thing to ever happen to us. It convinced people that Lou was a brilliant DC, Zac was a good HC, Tobin was good at his job, we didn't need more scouts because we got there without them, that DJ Reader and Jessie Bates were all we were missing to have a good defense, that McPherson was a hyper-accurate kicker, that Burrow didn't need home playoff games, that Burrow didn't need a good OL to win in the SB, that Burrow getting sacked a million times was just part of his game that we should accept as needed for success, that we absolutely need a $26m WR2, etc, etc... just a massive positive reinforcement that we didn't need to change or improve.

(Yesterday, 02:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That stuff is fundamental for every scheme, I agree.
What I am referring to though is, for example, what is the FS being asked to do coverage-wise? From Anarumo's scheme, the FS needed to be very rangy like Bates, which is rare.
The DL also doesn't have much (any) creativity in Anarumo's scheme, so it's heavily reliant on guys being able to handle 1-on-1 matchups or command double teams and get off blocks all the time. Someone like Reader was vital because he could do that better than the guys they have now.
Or do they have the right DBs who can handle zone coverage vs man? Those are (somewhat) different skillsets and matter if you don't have the players to accommodate said scheme.

That's how an even front DL works. Even going back to the better defenses under Zimmer, you had Peko attracting double teams, and then Geno, Carlos and whoever was playing RE attempting to win their one on one matchups. On the back end, instead of Jesse Bates, we had Reggie Williams roaming the deep middle.

(Yesterday, 12:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The problem with Anarumo's scheme is he needs (or needed) very specific skill sets and talented players to make it succeed.
If they didn't have a center field FS quite like Bates or a 1T penetrator and run stopper like Reader, it was pretty bad.

If a defensive scheme needs specific players/skill sets to succeed and those guys aren't already on the team or very rare, it will take time to get the scheme to work.

Hopefully whoever becomes DC can implement a scheme that doesn't have this much dependence.

(Yesterday, 02:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That stuff is fundamental for every scheme, I agree.
What I am referring to though is, for example, what is the FS being asked to do coverage-wise? From Anarumo's scheme, the FS needed to be very rangy like Bates, which is rare.
The DL also doesn't have much (any) creativity in Anarumo's scheme, so it's heavily reliant on guys being able to handle 1-on-1 matchups or command double teams and get off blocks all the time. Someone like Reader was vital because he could do that better than the guys they have now.
Or do they have the right DBs who can handle zone coverage vs man? Those are (somewhat) different skillsets and matter if you don't have the players to accommodate said scheme.

I was watching locked on Bengals last night and Jake Liscow  stated that Notre Dame led the NCAA in Cover 1 coverage this season. So I'm not sure your worries will go away about the scheme.

(01-16-2025, 07:00 PM)M.W. Wrote: Maybe Burfict for LB coach???

Or is he like permanently banned from the NFL?

Lol, I like the guy, but he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. Especially after all those concussions...

(01-16-2025, 07:06 PM)J24 Wrote: I think Golden can be a good D coordinator and I thought Lou was a good D coordinator. My problem isn't with either guy.

My problem is the team thought they needed a change at the Coordinator position but then they decide to hire someone with a similar philosophy? It doesn't make much sense to me?

I'd you are going to make a change than make a damn change.  

Well, couldn't make too big of a change if we want to win the Super Bowl in the next couple of years. If we went from a 4-3/5-2 to a 3-4
it would probably take a couple of years before it started to work. With Golden, it would still be a 4-3/5-2 and he knows the scheme but he
could freshen it up which seems to be needed big time. Tackling and the fundamentals is what this Defense has been missing.

The Tackling and fundamentals of the Irish seems pretty great to me this year.

But yeah, Eberflus would of been a big change without making too big of a change and he has a good resume' with the 4-3 in the NFL.

(Yesterday, 10:20 AM)Au165 Wrote: Saban used to say often that in college great players make great teams. The OSU offense is an elite unit with NFL talent all over. I think the two outcomes are if Golden can slow it down he did a great job, if he can't that's when better players win out. ND runs a lot of man coverage and I am not sure they will get away with that on Jeremiah Smith, I could see them running split coverage with man opposite and then a zone scheme with zone matching to smiths side. 

Great points as usual. Yeah, the man coverage against those Buckeye Receivers specifically Jeremiah Smith could be a big problem for 
Golden and the Irish Defense. They will have to adapt and split coverage as you say. This will tell a lot about the guy.

(Yesterday, 10:24 AM)Synric Wrote: It shouldn't be a surprise that Al Golden's defense is similar to Lou Anarumo's so the transition would be easier if they go that direction. 

Exactly, that is why I think it could be smoother if it is Golden.

(Yesterday, 12:07 PM)jj22 Wrote: My concern is how much of the credit for ND defense goes to Golden or the true defensive mastermind Marcus Freeman.

Valid concern, but the Defense was shitty under Freeman before Golden got there...

(Yesterday, 04:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Lol, I like the guy, but he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. Especially after all those concussions...


Well, couldn't make too big of a change if we want to win the Super Bowl in the next couple of years. If we went from a 4-3/5-2 to a 3-4
it would probably take a couple of years before it started to work. With Golden, it would still be a 4-3/5-2 and he knows the scheme but he
could freshen it up which seems to be needed big time. Tackling and the fundamentals is what this Defense has been missing.

The Tackling and fundamentals of the Irish seems pretty great to me this year.

But yeah, Eberflus would of been a big change without making too big of a change and he has a good resume' with the 4-3 in the NFL.


Great points as usual. Yeah, the man coverage against those Buckeye Receivers specifically Jeremiah Smith could be a big problem for 
Golden and the Irish Defense. They will have to adapt and split coverage as you say. This will tell a lot about the guy.


Exactly, that is why I think it could be smoother if it is Golden.


Valid concern, but the Defense was shitty under Freeman before Golden got there...

A 5-2 and 3-4 is the same scheme. Its not a big deal because the majority of D coordinators use both fronts depending on the situation.

(Yesterday, 04:25 PM)J24 Wrote: A 5-2 and 3-4 is the same scheme. Its not a big deal because the majority of D coordinators use both fronts depending on the situation.

No it isn't, they are far from the same scheme. 5 D-lineman to 3 is monumentally different. You have to have a true Nose Tackle in a 3-4 
and pass rushing Linebackers that look more like Micah Parsons/Twatt then our Linebackers who are stack/cover backers.

(Yesterday, 03:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's how an even front DL works. Even going back to the better defenses under Zimmer, you had Peko attracting double teams, and then Geno, Carlos and whoever was playing RE attempting to win their one on one matchups. On the back end, instead of Jesse Bates, we had Reggie Williams roaming the deep middle.

You can get more creative with a 4-3 DL than just having the 1T attract double teams and the others win their 1-1 matchups, no?
Can you not move them around and stunt and all that?
I feel like I never see those kinds of things with Anarumo's defense.
Very bland pass rush.

(Yesterday, 04:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You can get more creative with a 4-3 DL than just having the 1T attract double teams and the others win their 1-1 matchups, no?
Can you not move them around and stunt and all that?
I feel like I never see those kinds of things with Anarumo's defense.
Very bland pass rush.

Yep, the most exotic things I saw were the 5-2's under Lou and using Ossai in the B-gaps.

(Yesterday, 04:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You can get more creative with a 4-3 DL than just having the 1T attract double teams and the others win their 1-1 matchups, no?
Can you not move them around and stunt and all that?
I feel like I never see those kinds of things with Anarumo's defense.
Very bland pass rush.

You CAN do the things that you described, but unless you are in base and have fantastic, athletic LBs you could be asking for trouble. Seeing how most even fronts roll in some version of Nickle, you really risk losing control of the edge by stunting.

(01-16-2025, 07:00 PM)M.W. Wrote: Maybe Burfict for LB coach???

Or is he like permanently banned from the NFL?

   

(Yesterday, 04:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No it isn't, they are far from the same scheme. 5 D-lineman to 3 is monumentally different. You have to have a true Nose Tackle in a 3-4 
and pass rushing Linebackers that look more like Micah Parsons/Twatt then our Linebackers who are stack/cover backers.

Nate, when we play a 5-2 Trey and Hubbard are the edges  + they often standup just like Watt and Highsmith  do. It's  not a reason not to hire a coordinator. Especially, when you consider that Nickle will be played 60% of the time.

(11 hours ago)J24 Wrote: Nate, when we play a 5-2 Trey and Hubbard are the edges  + they often standup just like Watt and Highsmith  do. It's  not a reason not to hire a coordinator. Especially, when you consider that Nickle will be played 60% of the time.

Yeah, but they aren't good at it like Watt and Highsmith are. Trey likes his hand on the ground in a 4-3 and you need a true Nose Tackle like
Heyward to take up multiple OL to run a 3-4. We don't have this until a guy like McKinnley Jackson grows into one. I am not against being in 
the 3-4 at times if it causes confusion for Offenses but a 5-2 and a 3-4 are way different. You have 3 DT's in the middle usually in a 5-2.