Spotrac has different cap #s for Tee.

OTC:
Spotrac: $26.56, $19.25, $32.55, $36.06
OTC: -----$20.31, $28.0, $31.3, $34.8

Chase:
Spotrac: $23.57, $26.23, $33.4, $41.4, $53.2
OTC: 

We'll see what turns out to be right.

The latest on Bengas cap from Spotrac on March 21. It has Chase and Tee contracts, but is missing the 2 million dollar contract for Patrick.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/_/year/2025

They have 20.5 million left - Patrick estimated offset of 1.2 million so 19.3 million estimate
Injury pool - 5 million
Practice Squad - 3.5 million

I estimate we still have 12 million of usable cap space in 2025 so we still have moneyto sign a free agent vet or 2 if team chooses. If they want to sign more than 2, hey likely need to restructure Burrow's deal.

The deals for Tee and Chase also impacted our 2026 and beyond cap. In 2026, we now have $111 million. But, again with no JB restricture.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/_/year/2026

FWIW, spotrac has us with significantly less space than OTC. With Higgins & Slaton the culprits. Both sites have Chase at $23.57 this year.

Higgins: $26,561,765 spotrac; $24,061,765 OTC
Slaton: $7,940,000 spitrac; $5,440,000 OTC

Top 51 space: $20,496,494 spotrac; $23,932,791

Neither includes Patrick.

My figures, using OTC #s, including Patrick, a full 53, and paying All in IR, is $20,192,791.

Cutting Moss or Volson would essentially cover the PS cost. Throw in $2 mil forcthe Rd1 pick and we are looking at around $18 mil. I cannot see us getting closer than $8-$10 mil to the line, so probably $8-$10 mil in practical space. Assuming a Moss cut. Without anything allocated to Trey.

Not much barring a Burrow restructure or added cuts beyond Moss (Volson, Pratt, Stone, etc).

(03-22-2025, 03:13 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: FWIW, spotrac has us with significantly less space than OTC. With Higgins & Slaton the culprits. Both sites have Chase at $23.57 this year.

Higgins: $26,561,765 spotrac; $24,061,765 OTC
Slaton: $7,940,000 spitrac; $5,440,000 OTC

Top 51 space: $20,496,494 spotrac; $23,932,791

Neither includes Patrick.

My figures, using OTC #s, including Patrick, a full 53, and paying All in IR, is $20,192,791.

Cutting Moss or Volson would essentially cover the PS cost. Throw in $2 mil forcthe Rd1 pick and we are looking at around $18 mil. I cannot see us getting closer than $8-$10 mil to the line, so probably $8-$10 mil in practical space. Assuming a Moss cut. Without anything allocated to Trey.

Not much barring a Burrow restructure or added cuts beyond Moss (Volson, Pratt, Stone, etc).

Yes it is all an estimate as different numbers. They are both close. The take away for me is we do have cap money still for 2025. The question is will the FO spend it to upgrade at safety, CB, LB, guard or edge prior to the draft or ever?

Great breakdown of how the FO screwed up the Chase/Higgins deals to the tune of $11.75 mil in cap space we could have freed up.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/bengals_cost_themselves_significant_cap_space_with_questionable_jamarr_chase_and_tee_higgins_contract_structure/s1_16652_41942394

(03-22-2025, 06:12 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Great breakdown of how the FO screwed up the Chase/Higgins deals to the tune of $11.75 mil in cap space we could have freed up.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/bengals_cost_themselves_significant_cap_space_with_questionable_jamarr_chase_and_tee_higgins_contract_structure/s1_16652_41942394

They still have a lot of cap space to spend money. What big names FA's left should they spend the money? I don't see guys now available we can't afford if we feel the FO wants to add players.

(03-22-2025, 06:26 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: They still have a lot of cap space to spend money. What big names FA's left should they spend the money? I don't see guys now available we can't afford if we feel the FO wants to add players.

1) We don't have a lot. Practically it is $10 mil without a Trey extension. Though we could cut some guys (Moss, Volson) for more. Or restructure Joe.

Lordy, if it was $21 mil we could have: 

1) Gone big and signed Sweat or Fries. 

2) Jettisoned Pratt and signed Zach Baun or Bolden whi were both $15-$17 per with a lower cap hit..Minus what we are paying Pratt, it would have under $10. Same thing at S. Cut Stone and sign Justin Reid or another high end S in the $15-$17 range APY, with a lower cap hit. Minus the offset from dumping Stone and the net is under $10 mil. We could have dine BOTH things.

3) Of the guys still out there? Gimme Hernandez or Scherff. And Za'Darius Smith. Likely with $$ left over to make a run at Blackmon or Sommons or Gillmore. At least 2 of those guys, maybe 3. 

(03-22-2025, 11:40 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: 1) We don't have a lot. Practically it is $10 mil without a Trey extension. Though we could cut some guys (Moss, Volson) for more. Or restructure Joe.

Lordy, if it was $21 mil we could have: 

1) Gone big and signed Sweat or Fries. 

2) Jettisoned Pratt and signed Zach Baun or Bolden whi were both $15-$17 per with a lower cap hit..Minus what we are paying Pratt, it would have under $10. Same thing at S. Cut Stone and sign Justin Reid or another high end S in the $15-$17 range APY, with a lower cap hit. Minus the offset from dumping Stone and the net is under $10 mil. We could have dine BOTH things.

3) Of the guys still out there? Gimme Hernandez or Scherff. And Za'Darius Smith. Likely with $$ left over to make a run at Blackmon or Sommons or Gillmore. At least 2 of those guys, maybe 3. 

I'd love to get Gilmore. He lives about a half mile away from me. I'd go to his house and congratulate him personally. 

Unless he decides not to answer his door. 

(03-22-2025, 11:40 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: 1) We don't have a lot. Practically it is $10 mil without a Trey extension. Though we could cut some guys (Moss, Volson) for more. Or restructure Joe.

Lordy, if it was $21 mil we could have: 

1) Gone big and signed Sweat or Fries. 

2) Jettisoned Pratt and signed Zach Baun or Bolden whi were both $15-$17 per with a lower cap hit..Minus what we are paying Pratt, it would have under $10. Same thing at S. Cut Stone and sign Justin Reid or another high end S in the $15-$17 range APY, with a lower cap hit. Minus the offset from dumping Stone and the net is under $10 mil. We could have dine BOTH things.

3) Of the guys still out there? Gimme Hernandez or Scherff. And Za'Darius Smith. Likely with $$ left over to make a run at Blackmon or Sommons or Gillmore. At least 2 of those guys, maybe 3. 

Don't we typically rollover about 10M every year? Not sure if that is their magic number, or if it just works out that way.

Some guys that I think we could still look at before the draft (OL and secondary) are:

1) Jedrick Wills- Tackle (Browns) still only 25 former 1st round guy, average at everything but could be a nice gamble.

2) Julian Blackmon- Safety (Colts) 26 yrs old, solid defender played hurt last year and still was effective

3) Marcus Maye- Safety (Chargers) 31yrs old, solid backup type

4) Shaquille Griffin- CB (Vikings) 29 yrs old, solid #4 type veteran guy to add to the mix.

5) Jordan Poyer- S (Dolphins) 33 yrs old, solid backup type

- other than Blackmon, these are low cost backup types that would fit the cap, and still have room for Trey

(03-22-2025, 11:40 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: 1) We don't have a lot. Practically it is $10 mil without a Trey extension. Though we could cut some guys (Moss, Volson) for more. Or restructure Joe.

Lordy, if it was $21 mil we could have: 

1) Gone big and signed Sweat or Fries. 

2) Jettisoned Pratt and signed Zach Baun or Bolden whi were both $15-$17 per with a lower cap hit..Minus what we are paying Pratt, it would have under $10. Same thing at S. Cut Stone and sign Justin Reid or another high end S in the $15-$17 range APY, with a lower cap hit. Minus the offset from dumping Stone and the net is under $10 mil. We could have dine BOTH things.

3) Of the guys still out there? Gimme Hernandez or Scherff. And Za'Darius Smith. Likely with $$ left over to make a run at Blackmon or Sommons or Gillmore. At least 2 of those guys, maybe 3. 

How much will a Trey extension cost in 2025? He is set to make 16 million. I just don't see the Bengals giving him more than extra 4 or 5 million in 2025. Why woulld they?

Justin Reid has the skill set to replace Battle, not Stone. Bolden re-signed with KC so not available. Braun signed with Eagles so again not available.

I agree with Hernandez, problem is he is not close to being able to pass a physical and may not be available until middle of 2025. I like Scherff as a starter in 2025. I agree and hope we add a pass rusher to help Trey on 3rd down, Bengals signed Sample, Ossai and have Murphy and Johnson so not ure team sees it as a priority heading into teh draft.

As for safety, Simmions is no longer than great safety he was and I don't like Geno. I would love for us to address safety in round 1 of the draft and then cut Stone.

(03-23-2025, 01:20 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: How much will a Trey extension cost in 2025? He is set to make 16 million. I just don't see the Bengals giving him more than extra 4 or 5 million in 2025. Why woulld they?

Justin Reid has the skill set to replace Battle, not Stone. Bolden re-signed with KC so not available. Braun signed with Eagles so again not available.

I agree with Hernandez, problem is he is not close to being able to pass a physical and may not be available until middle of 2025. I like Scherff as a starter in 2025. I agree and hope we add a pass rusher to help Trey on 3rd down, Bengals signed Sample, Ossai and have Murphy and Johnson so not ure team sees it as a priority heading into teh draft.

As for safety, Simmions is no longer than great safety he was and I don't like Geno. I would love for us to address safety in round 1 of the draft and then cut Stone.

Who knows how they wouid structure things. 

A lower cap hit usually means more upfront cash/bonus conversions pro-rated out. While a higher cap hit usually means less cash right away. 

I think everyone was hoping for more $$ now for Tee & Chase, and lower cap hits. We then coukd have taken a higher hit on Trey, but paid him more cash later. Getting Trey's cap hit down was always gonna be trickier on a shorter deal that is an extension. 

But we got cheap in terms of cash on the Tee/Chase bonuses, did not gain any space on their extensions. 

A silver lining would be, could be, might be, that we use that cash savings to pay Trey now. Which does make more sense given his age. But we probably cannot lower his cap much, given the raise he is gonna get. I'd imagine $6 mil or so. 

But it is the Bungles, so who knows? 

It is a bit difficult to be to critical of what they’ve done so far, especially if the extend Trey for a year or two. And it up to them as to how they manage their cap. But a couple more signings could make difference. And I dint think these would be big dollar ones. Yes they should bring in a guard. Scherff or risner, maybe wait on Hernandez to get healthy. These have been discussed ad nauseum.

I’ve mentioned Blackmon before. Justin Simmons is still out there. I’m not sold on battle and stone as the starters. And unless we get sparks or Emmanwori in rd, or watts in 2, I wouldn’t want to count on a rookie starting this in what is hopefully a Super Bowl run.

Thought this might be useful and I pisted it in another thread:

Cap update:

OTC, Top 51 $23.9 mil. N/I Patrick deal. Tee at $24.1, Slaton at $5.4.

Spotrac, top 51: $20.5 mil. Tee at $26.6, Slaton at $7.9. N/I Patrick.

My calculations, based on a best available roster of signed players:

O starters (11): Burrow; C.Brown; Chase, Higgins, Iosivas; D. Sample; OBJ, Volson, Karras, Patrick, Mims.

D starters (11): Hendrickson, BJ Hill, Slaton, Ossai; L. Wilson, Pratt; CTB, Turner, D. Hill; Battle, Stone.

ST starters (3): McPherson; Rehkow; Adomitis.
------------------
Primary O reserves (5): Browning; Perine; Gesicki, All (IR), Ford.

Primary D reserves (5): Murphy, Jenkins, Jackson, Burks, Newton.

Fringe O reserves (10): Moss; C. Jones, I. Williams, Burton; Hudson, Grandy, McLachlan; Lee, Kirkland, Cochran.

Fringe D reserves (9): C. Sample, C. Johnson, I. Thomas; Njongmeta, Heyward; Ivey, M. Wilson; Anthony, Anderson.
--------------------

That's 54 guys with All on IR as the 54th. I get $20.8 mil in cap with that, using OTC's numbers.

Take out $3-4$ mil for the PS and a net of $2 mil for the 1st rounder and we are at $15 mil or thereabouts. No Trey getting paid, no other FA's, no cushion. $15 mil.

Now, that would certainly go up some. We won't pay Moss $4.8 mil to be RB3, right? Cutting him saves $3.3 mil, but then a cheap replacement eats a mil, so +$2.3 for $17.3. The rest of the picks will be a wash or a slight savings.

I am working with $17.3 in my head. Pay Trey. And MAYBE one more value FA signing (G, or cheap vet on D). Unless we get a Burrow restructure (+$19 mil) or release some other guys depending on draft/FA signings (Volson, Pratt, Stone, Burton).

(03-23-2025, 05:08 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Thought this might be useful and I pisted it in another thread:

Cap update:

OTC, Top 51 $23.9 mil. N/I Patrick deal. Tee at $24.1, Slaton at $5.4.

Spotrac, top 51: $20.5 mil. Tee at $26.6, Slaton at $7.9. N/I Patrick.

My calculations, based on a best available roster of signed players:

O starters (11): Burrow; C.Brown; Chase, Higgins, Iosivas; D. Sample; OBJ, Volson, Karras, Patrick, Mims.

D starters (11): Hendrickson, BJ Hill, Slaton, Ossai; L. Wilson, Pratt; CTB, Turner, D. Hill; Battle, Stone.

ST starters (3): McPherson; Rehkow; Adomitis.
------------------
Primary O reserves (5): Browning; Perine; Gesicki, All (IR), Ford.

Primary D reserves (5): Murphy, Jenkins, Jackson, Burks, Newton.

Fringe O reserves (10): Moss; C. Jones, I. Williams, Burton; Hudson, Grandy, McLachlan; Lee, Kirkland, Cochran.

Fringe D reserves (9): C. Sample, C. Johnson, I. Thomas; Njongmeta, Heyward; Ivey, M. Wilson; Anthony, Anderson.
--------------------

That's 54 guys with All on IR as the 54th. I get $20.8 mil in cap with that, using OTC's numbers.

Take out $3-4$ mil for the PS and a net of $2 mil for the 1st rounder and we are at $15 mil or thereabouts. No Trey getting paid, no other FA's, no cushion. $15 mil.

Now, that would certainly go up some. We won't pay Moss $4.8 mil to be RB3, right? Cutting him saves $3.3 mil, but then a cheap replacement eats a mil, so +$2.3 for $17.3. The rest of the picks will be a wash or a slight savings.

I am working with $17.3 in my head. Pay Trey. And MAYBE one more value FA signing (G, or cheap vet on D). Unless we get a Burrow restructure (+$19 mil) or release some other guys depending on draft/FA signings (Volson, Pratt, Stone, Burton).

I can't speak to over the cap as I mainly use Spotrac,  but Spotrac includes money for all 6 draft picks.

I just read that the talks with Trey have stalled. If that is true, then he wants a huge raise. Not sure we can fit him in under the cap?

(03-23-2025, 02:47 AM)schroomytunes Wrote: Some guys that I think we could still look at before the draft (OL and secondary) are:

1) Jedrick Wills- Tackle (Browns) still only 25 former 1st round guy, average at everything but could be a nice gamble.

This!

But at RG.

But there are alot of eyes on him now.

(03-23-2025, 07:16 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I just read that the talks with Trey have stalled. If that is true, then he wants a huge raise. Not sure we can fit him in under the cap?

Bengals own his contract for 2025. He has zero leverage to miss camp (fines) or games (fines and lost game week checks).

I understand why Trey wants to get some security, but it is in his court to be reasonable. Trey has no guaranteed money left on his contract. It would behoove to take a small raise in 2025 and with 100% of 2025 guaranteed, then a portion of 2026 guaranteed.

Bengals do not have to give him a big raise in 2025, they can do a small raise in 2025 and then a bigger number in 2026 and 2027, just. not all guaranteed.

(03-23-2025, 07:57 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Bengals own his contract for 2025. He has zero leverage to miss camp (fines) or games (fines and lost game week checks).

I understand why Trey wants to get some security, but it is in his court to be reasonable. Trey has no guaranteed money left on his contract. It would behoove to take a small raise in 2025 and with 100% of 2025 guaranteed, then a portion of 2026 guaranteed.

Bengals do not have to give him a big raise in 2025, they can do a small raise in 2025 and then a bigger number in 2026 and 2027, just. not all guaranteed.

Or just tag him. 

(03-23-2025, 07:57 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Bengals own his contract for 2025. He has zero leverage to miss camp (fines) or games (fines and lost game week checks).

I understand why Trey wants to get some security, but it is in his court to be reasonable. Trey has no guaranteed money left on his contract. It would behoove to take a small raise in 2025 and with 100% of 2025 guaranteed, then a portion of 2026 guaranteed.

Bengals do not have to give him a big raise in 2025, they can do a small raise in 2025 and then a bigger number in 2026 and 2027, just. not all guaranteed.

IDK where you are getting that from. This is literally copied from spitrac: 

2025 Draft Pool
Projected cap hits for upcoming draft picks. These placeholder figures are NOT being factored into any total salary cap allocations.

Why do you think the draft pool cost is factored in?