(03-19-2025, 11:45 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: OTC & Spotrac have the numbers in for Ossai  ($6.5 mil) and Sample ($1.2 mil). 

OTC is at $23.5 for top 51. But that is without Tee & Chase's deals added in (+$10 mil at least) or Moss being cut (+$3.5 mil). 

That would get us to $37 mil. 

On the downside, Trey will cost more (say $6 mil). 

And of course, in the regular, you have to pay 53 not 51, and the PS. That will cost $5 mil or so additional. Back to $27 or so. And the 1st rounder will earnore than whomever he displaces as long as it isn't Pratt or Stone. By around $2 mil. So $25 would be my guess. And Brown usually likes to keep a cushion, and we will pay All even on IR. 

So, my guestimate would be $24 minus the cushion. 

Of course, if Burrow reatructures (can Brown afgord all that cash flow this year?), that would push it back over $40.

So 24. They budget 5 million or so for draft picks. Say 2 for injury settlements. So 17ish. Say Trey gets 10 this year. That's 7. They need guard, safety, end maybe de at min.

should they try to resign Hilton And Bachie? Should they bring York to training camp and hve him compete w Money Mac Should they Cut Volson Moss and Burton? Trade Pratt for whatever they can get?

(03-20-2025, 10:39 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So 24. They budget 5 million or so for draft picks. Say 2 for injury settlements. So 17ish. Say Trey gets 10 this year. That's 7. They need guard, safety, end maybe de at min.

Did you roll over the 10M to next year? Feel like they do this often.

(03-20-2025, 10:39 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So 24. They budget 5 million or so for draft picks. Say 2 for injury settlements. So 17ish. Say Trey gets 10 this year. That's 7. They need guard, safety, end maybe de at min.

Again  the draft picks won't cost $5 mil when you are starting out with a top 51 calculation. The only pick that makes significantly more than the salary slot they are replacing is the #1. 

The 2nd makes roughly what a guy like Brightwell makes ($1.1 mil) and he will be cut. Once you get to day 3 picks, they make less. Outside of Rd1, it is a wash. And that is assuming no oicks replace a higher sakary guy (Stone, Pratt, McPherson, Volson, etc).

Trent Brown to Texans. 1 year, $3 mil. I'd have been down with that here for OT3.


https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/former_cincinnati_bengals_offensive_tackle_trent_brown_signing_with_houston_texans/s1_16652_41938542
=====================

II.  Current Player Roster: Signed for 2025 = 54

Italics denotes a player with a zero dead cap hit.

Offense = 26
QB (2): Burrow; Browning
RB (4): C. Brown; Perine, Moss, Milton
WR (6): Chase, Higgins, Iosivas; C. Jones, I. Williams, Burton
TE (5): D. Sample; Gesicki, Hudson, Grandy, McLachlan
OT (3): O. Brown, Mims; Cochran
G (4): Volson; Ford (G/T), Kirkland, Stueber
C (2): Karras (C/G); Lee (C/T/G)
----------------
Defense = 25
DE (6): Hendrickson, Ossai; Murphy, C. Johnson, C. Sample, I. Thomas
DT (4): BJ Hill, Slaton; Jenkins; Jackson
LB (5): L. Wilson, Pratt; Burks, Njongmeta, Heyward
CB (6): CTB, D. Hill; Turner, Newton, Ivey, M. Wilson
S (4): Battle, Stone; Anderson, Anthony
---------------
Special Teams = 3
PK: McPherson
P: Rehkow
LS: Adomitis
=================

III.  Injured Reserve = 1 (55)
1. Erick All, TE, (knee). Likely season-ending 2nd surgeey.
-----------------------

IV. Signed to Future's Contracts = 13 (68)

These guys do technically take up roster spaces and cap space at the moment. But effectively  they do not, as none of them have any Dead Cap hit if released. These are camp bodies, practice squad types with perhaps a dark horse candidate to make the 53 or two.

But it does give one a better idea if how much space we'd have with a full toster instead of only 44.


#, Pos, Player, # Acc Yrs, Salary, Dead Cap
1. RB Gary Brightwell, 3, $1,100,000, Zero
2. WR Kendric Pryor, 1, $1,030,000, Zero
3. WR Cole Burgess, 0, $840,000, Zero
4. WR Mitchell Tinsley, 1, $960,000, Zero
5. OT Andrew Coker, 0, $840,000, Zero
6. OG Tayshawn Manning, 0, $8400,000,Zer0
7. DE Raymond Johnson III, 1, $960,000, Zero
8. LB Craig Young, 0, $840,000, Zero
9. CB Micah Abraham, 0, $840,000, Zero
10. CB Nate Brooks, 0, $960,000, Zero
11. CB Jalen Davis, 4, $1,030,000, Zero
12. S PJ Jules, 0, $840,000, Zero
13. S Jaylen Key, 0, $840,000, Zero

https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-sign-11-players-to-reserve-future-contracts-bengals-roster-update
--------------
V.  Non Future's deals, but signed PS Candidates (1), 69


#, Pos, Player, # Acc Yrs, Salary, Dead Cap
1. CB L. Robinson, 1, $842,333, $4,667
---------------

VI.  Bengals Free Agents: 53/IR/PS = 9

Pos, Player
1. CB3: Mike Hilton
-------------
2. S3: Vonn Bell
-------------
3. LB4: Joe Bachie
4. PK: Cade York 
------------
5. RB4: Trayveon Williams
6. RB5: Chris Evans
7. OG/OT: D'Ante Smith
-------------
8. OC/OG: Tre Hil (PS)
9. QB: Logan Woodside (PS)
------------

VII.  Bengals FA's, Re-signed/Extensions = 14
1. TE Cam Grandy, ERFA, 1 year, $980,000.
2. CB Jalen Davis, Future's/Reserve, $1,030,000
3. P Ryan Rehkow, ERFA, 2 yrs, $960,000 in 2025
4. LS Cal Adomitis, RFA, 1 year, $1,100,000
5. OG Jaxson Kirkland, ERFA, 1 yr  $960,000
6. TE Tanner Hudson, 1 year, ??? $$$
7. TE/WR Mike Gesicki, 3 years, $25.5 mil
8. OG/OT Cody Ford, 2 years, $6,000,000
9. DT BJ Hill, 3 years, $33 mil, $16 G.
10. DE Joseph Ossai, 1 year, $7 mil
11. CB Marco Williams, 1 year, $1.52 mil
12. DE Cam Sample, 1 year, $1.6 mil
13. WR Tee Higgins, 4 years, $115 million
14. WR Ja'Marr Chase, 4 years, $161 mil (extension)
-------------------

VIII. Outside FA's brought in (3)
1. RB Samajae Perine, 2 years, $3.8 mil.
2. NT/DT TJ Slaton, 2 years, $15.1 mil
3. LB Oren Burks, 2 years, $5 mil
----------------

IX.  Bengals FA's, Signed elsewhere = 5
1. DT: Dominique Davis (PS), Pitt Future's contract
2. LB: Akeem Davis-Gaither, AZ, 2 yrs, $11 mil
3. RB Khalil Herbert, Indy, ?? terms
4. DT Jay Tufele, Jets, $ terms
5. OT Trent Brown, Texans, 1 year, $3 mil
----------

X.  Bengals Cuts from last year's 53 = 3
#, Pos, Player, Cap Savings, Dead Cap
1. DT Sheldon Rankins, $9.618 mil, $2 mil (Texans, 1/$7)
2. G Alex Cappa, $8 mil, $2.25 mil (Raiders, 2/$11.2)
3. DE Sam Hubbard, $9.5 mil, $2 mil (retired)
=========================== 

Lucas Patrick for $2.1m

https://atozsports.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals-news/bengals-sign-lucas-patrick-one-year-two-million-free-agency-saints-seahawks/

Bengals sign IOL Lucas Patrick (LG/C/RG) to a 1 year, $2.1 mil contract.


I love it as a versatile depth signing. I like it less if we are penciling him in as a starter or this is the end of our FA OL spending. An upgrade to Volson at LG atm for sure. Also better than Ford at G and can play C.


https://www.cincyjungle.com/2025/3/21/24390654/lucas-patrick-bengals-free-agents-saints
=====================

II.  Current Player Roster: Signed for 2025 = 55

Italics denotes a player with a zero dead cap hit.

Offense = 27
QB (2): Burrow; Browning
RB (4): C. Brown; Perine, Moss, Milton
WR (6): Chase, Higgins, Iosivas; C. Jones, I. Williams, Burton
TE (5): D. Sample; Gesicki, Hudson, Grandy, McLachlan
OT (3): O. Brown, Mims; Cochran
G (5): Patrick (G/C), Ford (G/T), Volson, Kirkland, Stueber
C (2): Karras (C/G); Lee (C/T/G)
----------------
Defense = 25
DE (6): Hendrickson, Ossai; Murphy, C. Johnson, C. Sample, I. Thomas
DT (4): BJ Hill, Slaton; Jenkins; Jackson
LB (5): L. Wilson, Pratt; Burks, Njongmeta, Heyward
CB (6): CTB, D. Hill; Turner, Newton, Ivey, M. Wilson
S (4): Battle, Stone; Anderson, Anthony
---------------
Special Teams = 3
PK: McPherson
P: Rehkow
LS: Adomitis
=================

III.  Injured Reserve = 1 (56)
1. Erick All, TE, (knee). Likely season-ending 2nd surgery.
-----------------------

IV. Signed to Future's Contracts = 13 (69)

These guys do technically take up roster spaces and cap space at the moment. But effectively  they do not, as none of them have any Dead Cap hit if released. These are camp bodies, practice squad types with perhaps a dark horse candidate to make the 53 or two.

But it does give one a better idea if how much space we'd have with a full toster instead of only 44.


#, Pos, Player, # Acc Yrs, Salary, Dead Cap
1. RB Gary Brightwell, 3, $1,100,000, Zero
2. WR Kendric Pryor, 1, $1,030,000, Zero
3. WR Cole Burgess, 0, $840,000, Zero
4. WR Mitchell Tinsley, 1, $960,000, Zero
5. OT Andrew Coker, 0, $840,000, Zero
6. OG Tayshawn Manning, 0, $8400,000,Zer0
7. DE Raymond Johnson III, 1, $960,000, Zero
8. LB Craig Young, 0, $840,000, Zero
9. CB Micah Abraham, 0, $840,000, Zero
10. CB Nate Brooks, 0, $960,000, Zero
11. CB Jalen Davis, 4, $1,030,000, Zero
12. S PJ Jules, 0, $840,000, Zero
13. S Jaylen Key, 0, $840,000, Zero

https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-sign-11-players-to-reserve-future-contracts-bengals-roster-update
--------------
V.  Non Future's deals, but signed PS Candidates (1), (70)


#, Pos, Player, # Acc Yrs, Salary, Dead Cap
1. CB L. Robinson, 1, $842,333, $4,667
---------------

VI.  Bengals Free Agents: 53/IR/PS = 9

Pos, Player
1. CB3: Mike Hilton
-------------
2. S3: Vonn Bell
-------------
3. LB4: Joe Bachie
4. PK: Cade York 
------------
5. RB4: Trayveon Williams
6. RB5: Chris Evans
7. OG/OT: D'Ante Smith
-------------
8. OC/OG: Tre Hil (PS)
9. QB: Logan Woodside (PS)
------------

VII.  Bengals FA's, Re-signed/Extensions = 14
1. TE Cam Grandy, ERFA, 1 year, $980,000.
2. CB Jalen Davis, Future's/Reserve, $1,030,000
3. P Ryan Rehkow, ERFA, 2 yrs, $960,000 in 2025
4. LS Cal Adomitis, RFA, 1 year, $1,100,000
5. OG Jaxson Kirkland, ERFA, 1 yr  $960,000
6. TE Tanner Hudson, 1 year, ??? $$$
7. TE/WR Mike Gesicki, 3 years, $25.5 mil
8. OG/OT Cody Ford, 2 years, $6,000,000
9. DT BJ Hill, 3 years, $33 mil, $16 G.
10. DE Joseph Ossai, 1 year, $7 mil
11. CB Marco Williams, 1 year, $1.52 mil
12. DE Cam Sample, 1 year, $1.6 mil
13. WR Tee Higgins, 4 years, $115 million
14. WR Ja'Marr Chase, 4 years, $161 mil (extension)
-------------------

VIII. Outside FA's brought in (4)
1. RB Samajae Perine, 2 years, $3.8 mil.
2. NT/DT TJ Slaton, 2 years, $15.1 mil
3. LB Oren Burks, 2 years, $5 mil
4. OG/C Lucas Patrick, 1 year, $2.1 mil
----------------

IX.  Bengals FA's, Signed elsewhere = 5
1. DT: Dominique Davis (PS), Pitt Future's contract
2. LB: Akeem Davis-Gaither, AZ, 2 yrs, $11 mil
3. RB Khalil Herbert, Indy, ?? terms
4. DT Jay Tufele, Jets, $ terms
5. OT Trent Brown, Texans, 1 year, $3 mil
----------

X.  Bengals Cuts from last year's 53 = 3
#, Pos, Player, Cap Savings, Dead Cap
1. DT Sheldon Rankins, $9.618 mil, $2 mil (Texans, 1/$7)
2. G Alex Cappa, $8 mil, $2.25 mil (Raiders, 2/$11.2)
3. DE Sam Hubbard, $9.5 mil, $2 mil (retired)
=========================== 

Cap update:

OTC, Top 51 $23.9 mil. N/I Patrick deal. Tee at $24.1, Slaton at $5.4.

Spotrac, top 51: $20.5 mil. Tee at $26.6, Slaton at $7.9. N/I Patrick.

My calculations, based on a best available roster of:

O starters (11): Burrow; C.Brown; Chase, Higgins, Iosivas; D. Sample; OBJ, Volson, Karras, Patrick, Mims.

D starters (11): Hendrickson, BJ Hill, Slaton, Ossai; L. Wilson, Pratt; CTB, Turner, D. Hill; Battle, Stone.

ST starters (3): McPherson; Rehkow; Adomitis.
------------------
Primary O reserves (5): Browning; Perine; Gesicki, All (IR), Ford.

Primary D reserves (5): Murphy, Jenkins, Jackson, Burks, Newton. 

Fringe O reserves (10): Moss; C. Jones, I. Williams, Burton; Hudson, Grandy, McLachlan; Lee, Kirkland, Cochran.

Fringe D reserves (9): C. Sample, C. Johnson, I. Thomas; Njongmeta, Heyward; Ivey, M. Wilson; Anthony, Anderson.
--------------------

That's 54 guys with All on IR as the 54th. I get $20.8 mil in cap with that, using OTC's numbers. 

Take out $3-4$ mil for the PS and a net of $2 mil for the 1st rounder and we are at $15 mil or thereabouts. No Trey getting paid, no other FA's, no cushion. $15 mil.

Now, that vould certainly go up some. We won't oay Moss $4.8 mil to be RB3, right? Cutting him save $3.3 mil, but then a cheap replacements eats a mil, so +$2.3 for $17.3. The rest of the picks will be a wash or a slight savings. 

I am working with $17.3 in my head. Pay Trey. And MAYBE one more value FA signing (G, or cheap vet on D). Unless we get a Burrow restructure (+$19 mil) or release some other guys depending on draft/FA signings (Volson, Pratt, Stone, Burton) that is the number.

(03-23-2025, 02:29 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Cap update:

OTC, Top 51 $23.9 mil. N/I Patrick deal. Tee at $24.1, Slaton at $5.4.

Spotrac, top 51: $20.5 mil. Tee at $26.6, Slaton at $7.9. N/I Patrick.

My calculations, based on a best available roster of:

O starters (11): Burrow; C.Brown; Chase, Higgins, Iosivas; D. Sample; OBJ, Volson, Karras, Patrick, Mims.

D starters (11): Hendrickson, BJ Hill, Slaton, Ossai; L. Wilson, Pratt; CTB, Turner, D. Hill; Battle, Stone.

ST starters (3): McPherson; Rehkow; Adomitis.
------------------
Primary O reserves (5): Browning; Perine; Gesicki, All (IR), Ford.

Primary D reserves (5): Murphy, Jenkins, Jackson, Burks, Newton. 

Fringe O reserves (10): Moss; C. Jones, I. Williams, Burton; Hudson, Grandy, McLachlan; Lee, Kirkland, Cochran.

Fringe D reserves (9): C. Sample, C. Johnson, I. Thomas; Njongmeta, Heyward; Ivey, M. Wilson; Anthony, Anderson.
--------------------

That's 54 guys with All on IR as the 54th. I get $20.8 mil in cap with that, using OTC's numbers. 

Take out $3-4$ mil for the PS and a net of $2 mil for the 1st rounder and we are at $15 mil or thereabouts. No Trey getting paid, no other FA's, no cushion. $15 mil.

Now, that vould certainly go up some. We won't oay Moss $4.8 mil to be RB3, right? Cutting him save $3.3 mil, but then a cheap replacements eats a mil, so +$2.3 for $17.3. The rest of the picks will be a wash or a slight savings. 

I am working with $17.3 in my head. Pay Trey. And MAYBE one more value FA signing (G, or cheap vet on D). Unless we get a Burrow restructure (+$19 mil) or release some other guys depending on draft/FA signings (Volson, Pratt, Stone, Burton) that is the number.

So with a 10M rollover more like 7.3M. Puts them at a Trey raise and hope some picks offset a vet you mentioned at the end for any other move.

(03-23-2025, 02:48 PM)phil413 Wrote: So with a 10M rollover more like 7.3M. Puts them at a Trey raise and hope some picks offset a vet you mentioned at the end for any other move.

Yep. 

I'd REALLY like to dump Volson. But as of this moment, he's a starter for me, with Ford as OT3/G4. 

Volson has close to zero dead cap. Cutting him saves $3.6 mil. RG Will Hernandez is valued at just over $4 mil per by spotrac. He's 29. Coming off an ACL tear early last year. But with decent tongood grades the last couple years. If we sign him to a multi-year deal, the cap hit should be right around $4 mil.

At that point, Hernandez & Patrick are your starters.  Volson at $3.8 mil is an expensive G3 with no positional versatility. Cutting Volson would pay for Hernandez, almost. Draft a guard to either start over Patrick (early) or compete with Kirkland/Lee/Stueber/Ford to be G3 (later). 

I am not down on Volson, necessarily. I just think there is a path where cutting him can pay for an OG signing/upgrade, pay Trey, AND perhaps have enough for a bargain FA signing on D. 

But unless it is a REAL bargain (Campbell, Simmons), then probably a draft pick has to allow us to cut Stone or Pratt to finance an impactful acquisition (Smith, Blackmon, Gillmore).