(04-17-2025, 08:26 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: Wild. Guard play literally cost them a Lombardi, years later and Burrow STILL constantly eats shit from directly up the middle and they’re like “meh, fairly cheap upgrade and we could draft BPA? We’re good on all that noise.”

I'm so frustrated right now.  This appears to be a money move.  "If we get a decent guard in draft, why do we want to spend money on a FA?"


This is in the class of thinking that says reaching for the player you want is the unforgivable sin; and save cash and pay tens of millions more by dragging your feet on paying your core players that you need and intend to pay at some point.

Dude, just do what you need to do to accomplish your team goals:  i.e. protect your franchise, upgrade your defense, maximize the scope of your offense and agree to contracts in real time.

(04-17-2025, 12:48 PM)3wt Wrote: I'm so frustrated right now.  This appears to be a money move.  "If we get a decent guard in draft, why do we want to spend money on a FA?"


This is in the class of thinking that says reaching for the player you want is the unforgivable sin; and save cash and pay tens of millions more by dragging your feet on paying your core players that you need and intend to pay at some point.

Dude, just do what you need to do to accomplish your team goals:  i.e. protect your franchise, upgrade your defense, maximize the scope of your offense and agree to contracts in real time.

Hard not to be frustrated when a player who would be an upgrade clearly says he would love to be on your team protecting your Franchise
and the Front Office doesn't even reach out to him? Pisses me off honestly. Quit spitting in Joe Burrow's and all of our faces.

(04-17-2025, 12:35 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I know our guard play has been bad, but it is our lousy defense that keeps us from making the playoffs 2 years in a row.

I want a guard, but if we do not fix the defense Joe will be forcced to throw the ball 40 to 50 times a game enhancing the opportunity for him to be injured.

I think signing Risner for the fairly small amount he will get will end up helping the defense.

This allows them to use another pick next week on defense instead of having to pick a G. I think Risner/Patrick as the starters would be big upgrades over the previous years (yes the bar is very low). They could then cut Volson and draft a back up guard in the 5th or 6th round instead of having to take one within the first 3 rounds. The rookie can’t be much worse than Volson.

This also allows them to pick another defensive player earlier in the draft.

(04-17-2025, 12:53 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote:
I think signing Risner for the fairly small amount he will get will end up helping the defense.

This allows them to use another pick next week on defense instead of having to pick a G.  I think Risner/Patrick as the starters would be big upgrades over the previous years (yes the bar is very low). They could then cut Volson and draft a back up guard in the 5th or 6th round instead of having to take one within the first 3 rounds.  The rookie can’t be much worse than Volson.

This also allows them to pick another defensive player earlier in the draft.

I don't think anyone including me disagrees. The Bengals lack of interest (have not kicked the tires at all) is not money as he is not projected to cost much for a starting guard.

To me, that means Bengals do not feel he is upgrade or a fit. I am no OL expert so I am asking Syric, Sunset and others if there a reason Bengals feel he is not an ugrade.

(04-17-2025, 12:48 PM)3wt Wrote: I'm so frustrated right now.  This appears to be a money move.  "If we get a decent guard in draft, why do we want to spend money on a FA?"


This is in the class of thinking that says reaching for the player you want is the unforgivable sin; and save cash and pay tens of millions more by dragging your feet on paying your core players that you need and intend to pay at some point.

Dude, just do what you need to do to accomplish your team goals:  i.e. protect your franchise, upgrade your defense, maximize the scope of your offense and agree to contracts in real time.

The obvious answer to anyone asking that is because they need two starting guards.


Patrick hasn't played overly well for an entire season since 2021 when he played 911 snaps but 822 were at Center.
His last time playing well at Guard for a full season was 2020, when he played 939 snaps and allowed 3 sacks, 16 total pressures.
I like him for his versatility, but it's been quite a few years since he's done well as a full-time starter.

Ford has never done well as a full time starter, same with Volson.

Risner meanwhile in his entire career (87 games, 81 starts) hasn't allowed more than 4 sacks or 30 total pressures in a season.
Risner would be a safer bet for starting at one of the Guard spots than Patrick or Ford, IMO.
Happy to keep them both for versatile depth though.

(04-17-2025, 02:42 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The obvious answer to anyone asking that is because they need two starting guards.


Patrick hasn't played overly well for an entire season since 2021 when he played 911 snaps but 822 were at Center.
His last time playing well at Guard for a full season was 2020, when he played 939 snaps and allowed 3 sacks, 16 total pressures.
I like him for his versatility, but it's been quite a few years since he's done well as a full-time starter.

Ford has never done well as a full time starter, same with Volson.

Risner meanwhile in his entire career (87 games, 81 starts) hasn't allowed more than 4 sacks or 30 total pressures in a season.
Risner would be a safer bet for starting at one of the Guard spots than Patrick or Ford, IMO.
Happy to keep them both for versatile depth though.

My only comment is you appear to think 30 pressures in a season is a great number. I woud argue 2 a game is a lot and hardly stellar.

(04-17-2025, 02:47 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: My only comment is you appear to think 30 pressures in a season is a great number. I woud argue 2 a game is a lot and hardly stellar.

I don't think 30 is "great," but I don't think it's terrible. Where did I say great?

Volson, by comparison, has allowed 38+ every single season.
Cody Ford last year on just 688 total snaps allowed 37.

I'm simply trying to find upgrades to what they have, not trying to have "great or nothing."

(04-17-2025, 01:51 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't think anyone including me disagrees. The Bengals lack of interest (have not kicked the tires at all) is not money as he is not projected to cost much for a starting guard.

To me, that means Bengals do not feel he is upgrade or a fit. I am no OL expert so I am asking Syric, Sunset and others if there a reason Bengals feel he is not an ugrade.

Yeah I get that - I also don’t understand why the Bengals would think he’s not better than what they have. They have been so bad at guard that even decent/mediocre play would be an upgrade.

It’s hard for any of us to understand what they are thinking. The Bengals FO seems really clueless here…upgrading the position for about the same money should be a no brainer.

(04-17-2025, 02:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't think 30 is "great," but I don't think it's terrible. Where did I say great?

Volson, by comparison, has allowed 38+ every single season.
Cody Ford last year on just 688 total snaps allowed 37.

I'm simply trying to find upgrades to what they have, not trying to have "great or nothing."

I just visited a Vikings fan board. This comment was maybe why the FO is not on board to sign Risner. His inability to stop QB pressures while not leading to sacks does not help overcome his poor performance as a run blocker. 

I am just searching why our FO is not running to sign him to upgrade the OL. How many QB pressures did he have in each year and games played? I think he only started 10 games in 2024 and has not started all 17 games in the past 4 years.

(04-17-2025, 01:51 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't think anyone including me disagrees. The Bengals lack of interest (have not kicked the tires at all) is not money as he is not projected to cost much for a starting guard.

To me, that means Bengals do not feel he is upgrade or a fit. I am no OL expert so I am asking Syric, Sunset and others if there a reason Bengals feel he is not an ugrade.

I think the issue might be deeper, He can;t seem to stick much with any team after Denver, he again is out there late on free agency,  if he was such a steal other teams would have signed him to a one year you would think.. im feeling maybe a locker room issue or health issue, also cap is getting tight, they might feel not worry the cap to bring him in .

(04-17-2025, 03:21 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I just visited a Vikings fan board. This comment was maybe why the FO is not on board to sign Risner. His inability to stop QB pressures while not leading to sacks does not help overcome his poor perfomance as a run blocker. 

I am just searching why of FO is not running to sign him to upgrade the OL. How many QB pressures did he have in each year and games played? I think he only started 10 games in 2024 and has not started all 17 games in the past 4 years.

2019 - 975 offensive snaps. 22 total pressures, 3 sacks allowed
2020 - 999 offensive snaps. 28 total pressures, 0 sacks allowed
2021 - 832 offensive snaps. 21 total pressures, 4 sacks allowed
2022 - 967 offensive snaps. 29 total pressures, 3 sacks allowed
2023 - 745 offensive snaps. 30 total pressures, 0 sacks allowed
2024 - 537 offensive snaps. 16 total pressures, 0 sacks allowed

So only 10 sacks allowed in over 5000 offensive snaps.

In 2024, he started the season with a back injury and thus put on IR. His first game last year was 11/3, and he played the remainder of the games in the season from that point.

I can potentially see the run blocking concern, but again the Bengals guards are also bad at that, so I'm not seeing a degradation if Risner is added. Improved pass blocking (which should be priority 1 with Burrow, Chase, and Higgins), same run blocking at worst.

(04-17-2025, 03:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: 2019 - 975 offensive snaps. 22 total pressures, 3 sacks allowed
2020 - 999 offensive snaps. 28 total pressures, 0 sacks allowed
2021 - 832 offensive snaps. 21 total pressures, 4 sacks allowed
2022 - 967 offensive snaps. 29 total pressures, 3 sacks allowed
2023 - 745 offensive snaps. 30 total pressures, 0 sacks allowed
2024 - 537 offensive snaps. 16 total pressures, 0 sacks allowed

So only 10 sacks allowed in over 5000 offensive snaps.

In 2024, he started the season with a back injury and thus put on IR. His first game last year was 11/3, and he played the remainder of the games in the season from that point.

I can potentially see the run blocking concern, but again the Bengals guards are also bad at that, so I'm not seeing a degradation if Risner is added. Improved pass blocking (which should be priority 1 with Burrow, Chase, and Higgins), same run blocking at worst.

not like the Bengals don;t have numbers and tape on him, as i stated before, alot of teams have passed on this guy since Denver.. and we are outside looking in, so we really don;t know what the organization is thinking but we know not much cap left in 2025.

(04-17-2025, 03:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: 2019 - 975 offensive snaps. 22 total pressures, 3 sacks allowed
2020 - 999 offensive snaps. 28 total pressures, 0 sacks allowed
2021 - 832 offensive snaps. 21 total pressures, 4 sacks allowed
2022 - 967 offensive snaps. 29 total pressures, 3 sacks allowed
2023 - 745 offensive snaps. 30 total pressures, 0 sacks allowed
2024 - 537 offensive snaps. 16 total pressures, 0 sacks allowed

So only 10 sacks allowed in over 5000 offensive snaps.

In 2024, he started the season with a back injury and thus put on IR. His first game last year was 11/3, and he played the remainder of the games in the season from that point.

I can potentially see the run blocking concern, but again the Bengals guards are also bad at that, so I'm not seeing a degradation if Risner is added. Improved pass blocking (which should be priority 1 with Burrow, Chase, and Higgins), same run blocking at worst.

he has not allowed a sack in last two season, i would not discount that, last here he did not allow a hit to QB either.. im not giving up that he won;t be a average productive starter for us, which would be an upgrade from Cappa and cheaper

(04-17-2025, 03:37 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: not like the Bengals don;t have numbers and tape on him, as i stated before, alot of teams have passed on this guy since Denver.. and we are outside looking in, so we really don;t know what the organization is thinking but we know not much cap left in 2025.

...What do you mean?

Bengals still have $24 mill in cap.
Nearly $20 mill still if they really want to reserve ~$5 mill for draft.
Still $15 mill if they want to reserve another $5 mill for injury reserve and whatnot.

Unless you are thinking all of that cap is really going to go toward a Hendrickson extension?
Even if it was, they could cut Volson and get $3.6 mill back from him, likely covering most if not all of what Risner would cost.

(04-17-2025, 03:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: ...What do you mean?

Bengals still have $24 mill in cap.
Nearly $20 mill still if they really want to reserve ~$5 mill for draft.
Still $15 mill if they want to reserve another $5 mill for injury reserve and whatnot.

Unless you are thinking all of that cap is really going to go toward a Hendrickson extension?
Even if it was, they could cut Volson and get $3.6 mill back from him, likely covering most if not all of what Risner would cost.

So 10 m left, not much and they are not cutting Volson, 

(04-17-2025, 06:10 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So 10 m left, not much and they are not cutting Volson, 

Not $10 mill left.
$15 mill left if you want to cut out $5 mill for draft (which you don't have to because of roster displacement) and $5 mill for injury reserve.
Ultimately, $25 mill to work with, and cut options still on the table.

Volson is a cut option whether people think he will be or not. He CAN be, which is all that matters.
Moss may end up getting cut once he's back healthy, freeing up $3.3 mill.
There's no way they pay Moss his cost to be RB3.
And if they draft a RB before Rd 5, that RB could end up forcing Moss to be RB4, or the new RB has to be RB4.
They won't make an early-mid draft pick RB4, I wouldn't think. That'd be basically riding the pine all year.

(04-17-2025, 06:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Not $10 mill left.
$15 mill left if you want to cut out $5 mill for draft (which you don't have to because of roster displacement) and $5 mill for injury reserve.
Ultimately, $25 mill to work with, and cut options still on the table.

Volson is a cut option whether people think he will be or not. He CAN be, which is all that matters.
Moss may end up getting cut once he's back healthy, freeing up $3.3 mill.
There's no way they pay Moss his cost to be RB3.
And if they draft a RB before Rd 5, that RB could end up forcing Moss to be RB4, or the new RB has to be RB4.
They won't make an early-mid draft pick RB4, I wouldn't think. That'd be basically riding the pine all year.

Don't forget to account for as many as 16 practice squad spots and salaries.

(04-17-2025, 06:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Don't forget to account for as many as 16 practice squad spots and salaries.

Ok Mike Brown.

Seriously though, all that matters is the Top 51. None of these jabronis count toward that.
If Bengals really are so strapped for cash that they care about those remaining tidbits, that's really concerning.

I know it's super frustrating, but will say again: just wait until after the draft.

We will see some moves at that point.

(04-17-2025, 06:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ok Mike Brown.

Seriously though, all that matters is the Top 51. None of these jabronis count toward that.
If Bengals really are so strapped for cash that they care about those remaining tidbits, that's really concerning.

They still have Trey Hendrickson in limbo. If they don't move him during the draft, they'll likely concede and give him a damn contract that reflects what his value is as a player. When that domino falls, however way it goes, I would expect some sort of activity in terms of free agency soon after.