(06-08-2025, 10:08 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: I think we will see an entirely differnt defense this year under golden with alot more emphasis on speed and disruption..treys sacks..although they usually came in 4-5 games were the only bright spot of a rather poor defense last year..i have watched trey closely...he gets locked into a wrestling match with the opposing tackle on almost every play and is very little help in the other aspects of the defense...we can debate this night and day but it is quite obvious that the other teams in the nfl did not value him as much as casual football fans

You don't know what you're talking about.

(06-08-2025, 11:10 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: The Bengals need to hire some front office help. To be cheap and bad at contracts is too much to overcome. We have a championship window that we are actively shutting with our ineptitude. 

Such a wrong take on the FO. The cheap comment is just ignores the massive contracts we gave Burrow, Chase, Higgins and gave Trey a restructured deal. Why do you dismiss and name call the FO when they clearly have invested in players. 

Your rants because Trey is not signed does not make your case.

(06-08-2025, 10:16 AM)jason Wrote: I actually agree with the one trick pony assessment. He's REALLY good at that one trick though.

I hate that people don't think Trey is a good Run Defender because he really is but he misses tackles at a higher rate than average for a edge so he is not a great run defender.

(06-08-2025, 10:44 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Trey lead the league in sacks created by a wide margin. He was a leader/top3/top5 in virtually every relevant pass rush stat: pressures, hurries, hits, forced fumbles, time to first pressure. 

PFF/ESPN/AI has him: 
1st: Sacks, Pressures, Quick pressures
2nd: Pass rush win rate
3rd: Batted passes
4th: Hits, Hurries
8th: Forced fumbles

ESPN has him #1 in sacks created by a country mile. 2nd in pass rush win rate. 

AI says first in quick pressures. 

Yes, he is not elite or very good vs the run like some others (Crosby, Watt, Garrett). But he isn't awful (65.9). 

In terms of overall DE play, Trey is probably top 5-ish. PFF has him 8th overall and 5th in pass rush. I'd say that is a smidge too low. 

I think you can make a very good case for him being the most effective pass rushing DE in the league last year (and the last several). 

The issue is not the talent or production of Trey Hendrickson but taking a chance that a 31 year old Edge Defender won't fall off a cliff for the various reasons.


 Age brings Higher Risk.  

(06-08-2025, 01:43 PM)Synric Wrote: The issue is not the talent or production of Trey Hendrickson but taking a chance that a 31 year old Edge Defender won't fall off a cliff for the various reasons.


Age brings Higher Risk.

It’s worth rolling the dice when you have a Joe Burrow in his prime. Just ***** GO FOR IT for once.

(06-08-2025, 01:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Such a wrong take on the FO. The cheap comment is just ignores the massive contracts we gave Burrow, Chase, Higgins and gave Trey a restructured deal. Why do you dismiss and name call the FO when they clearly have invested in players. 

Your rants because Trey is not signed does not make your case.

How can you ignore that we could've lowered Tees and Chases cap hit this year instead of raising them. That we front loaded heavy cap hits on all the other players we signed. We could easily be sitting here with an actual starting caliber FA guard, trey and probably a safety signed and be no worse off.

Not signing Trey does piss me off but at this point it's more about us repeating mistakes. Trey is just another player that is too good to trade but not good enough to pay. I also think we are repeating the mistake of getting accustomed to the talent we see and undervaluing it. Trey led the league in sacks when has that happened in recent memory. That is not easily replaced and certainly not with a player that had some of the worst production data at his position in the last 25 years. 

I do get the argument of waiting until the season gets under way. The problem is I know the Bengals will do nothing if the season starts and a player or position group is underperforming.

(06-08-2025, 02:13 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s worth rolling the dice when you have a Joe Burrow in his prime. Just ***** GO FOR IT for once.

100%. This is the time as a team or fan you wait and hope for. Just take a swing to give these players the best chance possible. 

He’s probably not looking at as $100k lost. It’s an investment. His ROI could be 20-200x if he gets the contract he wants, by sitting out. If he shows up and plays, he 100% isn’t getting a new contract. His only play at this moment is to sign what was offered, or sit out as leverage. It’s a gamble. I think he sits out a little but not a whole season.

He'll do a holdin like Chase.

(06-08-2025, 02:28 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: How can you ignore that we could've lowered Tees and Chases cap hit this year instead of raising them. That we front loaded heavy cap hits on all the other players we signed. We could easily be sitting here with an actual starting caliber FA guard, trey and probably a safety signed and be no worse off.

Not signing Trey does piss me off but at this point it's more about us repeating mistakes. Trey is just another player that is too good to trade but not good enough to pay. I also think we are repeating the mistake of getting accustomed to the talent we see and undervaluing it. Trey led the league in sacks when has that happened in recent memory. That is not easily replaced and certainly not with a player that had some of the worst production data at his position in the last 25 years. 

I do get the argument of waiting until the season gets under way. The problem is I know the Bengals will do nothing if the season starts and a player or position group is underperforming.

You want to discuss contract structure, that is a different conversation. If you want to call the team cheap when they paid out a ton of cash in 2025 and are normally at worst in the middle of teams cash spend is a different argument. The cash spend makes your argument a bad one, they are not cheap.

They chose to pay me now with Tee and Jamar contracts, they spent the money and that structuring does not make them cheap. You also assume their plan (not your plan) was to do it so they could ot spend more in FA or on Trey, but at the same time if they extend Trey for his demands they have the cap space in 2025 to do it. Trey simply can't get Trey to compromise.

(06-08-2025, 02:13 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s worth rolling the dice when you have a Joe Burrow in his prime. Just ***** GO FOR IT for once.

'We can't take a chance paying Trey that money when we could instead pay someone who will produce at a much much lower level!!!!'

Seriously. Has ANYONE against signing Trey even THOUGHT about that? They'll instead be paying someone who won't produce in a top 10 fashion. 

But you know...you can't take a chance at Trey keeping up for the next 3 years. 

***** stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid.

(06-08-2025, 02:28 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: How can you ignore that we could've lowered Tees and Chases cap hit this year instead of raising them.

The front office folk ignore anything that makes sense. 

They could have done that, or they could have signed them last year for less money and they also could have signed Trey to a longer term contract last year for much less money as well.

But nooooooooooooo, there's nothing wrong with this bengals front office. They're the bees knees!!!!!

(06-08-2025, 08:29 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You want to discuss contract structure, that is a different conversation. If you want to call the team cheap when they paid out a ton of cash in 2025 and are normally at worst in the middle of teams cash spend is a different argument. The cash spend makes your afrument a bad one, they are not cheap.

They chose to pay me now with Tee and Jamar contracts, they spent the money and that structuring does not make them cheap. You also assume their plan (not your plan) was to do it so they could ot spend more in FA or on Trey, but at the same time if they extend Trey for his demands they have the cap space in 2025 to do it. Trey simply can't get Trey to compromise.

It's not different. Its just highlights the total ineptitude of this front office. And yes, they are cheap when it comes to every other contract for anyone that's not a QB. They pay "bell cow" QBs early and often to market money. Everyone else? Pinch, twist and grab on to every nickel for dear life. 

They ****** themselvesby by not signing Chase and Tee last year, then ****** themselves againa for how they structured it so that they could claim "no moniez!" when Trey's time came along. 

They're very transparently bad at building a championship team and they're cheap for anyone that's not a franchise QB. 

Bad. They're bad bad bad bad at what they do that doesn't include making money for themselves. 

Just in case some may have missed it.

Bengals pass D with Trey OFF the field: #32 in completion rate, #32 in passer rating, #32 in pressure rate, #32 in success rate allowed, #32 in EPA/attempt.

Dead freaking last.

With him ON the field?

#11 completion rate, #8 passer rating, #12 pressure rate, #8 success rate allowed, #19 EPA/attempt. 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/look-glaring-difference-in-bengals-pass-defense-with-and-without-trey-hendrickson-01jvypn2vqcf

From dead last to top half, almost top 10. One guy. Pay that man his money.

(Yesterday, 10:07 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Just in case some may have missed it.

Bengals pass D with Trey OFF the field: #32 in completion rate, #32 in passer rating, #32 in pressure rate, #32 in success rate allowed, #32 in EPA/attempt.

Dead freaking last.

With him ON the field?

#11 completion rate, #8 passer rating, #12 pressure rate, #8 success rate allowed, #19 EPA/attempt. 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/look-glaring-difference-in-bengals-pass-defense-with-and-without-trey-hendrickson-01jvypn2vqcf

From dead last to top half, almost top 10. One guy. Pay that man his money.

they did 2 years ago...   Show up or be fined.

Some Bengals fans lose common sense when saying go all in for Trey. They forget the simple fact that if they gave up new contracts every time a player outplayed his deal it would be a major issue. I love Trey, but he is one player of many.

If Trey decides to sit out, I will respect hid decision but also understand it was his decision to sit out and not accept an offer from the team. Sorry, Trey is the bad guy here, not the FO who offered him an extension (they did not have to offer anything) that he refused.

(06-08-2025, 08:42 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The front office folk ignore anything that makes sense. 

They could have done that, or they could have signed them last year for less money and they also could have signed Trey to a longer term contract last year for much less money as well.

But nooooooooooooo, there's nothing wrong with this bengals front office. They're the bees knees!!!!!

The team wins despite them. They’re the common denominator in 30+ years of futility. They prioritize employing family members over bringing in astute front office personnel, and eschew relatively cheap scouts and analysts to have the league’s smallest scouting department while also trying to build the team primarily through the draft.

During Mike’s tenure as owner/self-titled GM they have 11 winning seasons out of 34, 6 Division titles out of 34, 1 AFC Championship out of 34, and zero Super Bowl wins. They have to be drug kicking and screaming to provide facilities and amenities that befit a professional football team, and don’t have the capital to offer modern-style NFL contracts to a large portion of the roster (a la the Eagles and others). Take away revenue sharing and these clowns would’ve sold out years ago. I love this team, but ownership is and has always been trash.

(Yesterday, 11:04 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Some Bengals fan lose common sense when sayinggo all in for Trey. They forget the simple fact that if they gave up new contracts everytime a player outplayed his deal it would be a major issue. I love Trey, but he is one player of many.

If Trey decides to sit out, I will respect hid decision but also understand it was his decision to sit out and not accept an offer from the team. Sorry, Trey is the bad guy here, not the FO who offered him an extension (they did not have to offer anything) that he refused.

That extension, if accurately quoted, was well below market value for Trey’s production. In other words, they low-balled him. He didn’t sign the low-ball offer, and no one in his position would. And in the meantime dead weight like Volson and Pratt are on the roster sucking up the salary difference that the Bengals could be using to make up the difference on Trey’s low-ball contract offer while also paying rookie salaries for Volson/Pratt’s replacements.

(Yesterday, 11:04 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Some Bengals fan lose common sense when sayinggo all in for Trey. They forget the simple fact that if they gave up new contracts everytime a player outplayed his deal it would be a major issue. I love Trey, but he is one player of many.

If Trey decides to sit out, I will respect hid decision but also understand it was his decision to sit out and not accept an offer from the team. Sorry, Trey is the bad guy here, not the FO who offered him an extension (they did not have to offer anything) that he refused.

Oh, please. There are like 4 guys on the team who deserve big money. Burrow, Chase, Trey, and Tee. No one else is even close.

We intentionally structured the Tee/Chase deals to carry an extra $11 million cap hit this year (same payout), declined Burrow's offer to restructure (save up to $19 mil on cap), and kept guys like Pratt/Volson/Moss on the roster when cutting them could have saved $12 mil. That's $42 mil in cap right there. 

Trey's age is an argument FOR going all-in ASAP. Not the other way around. Ya'll have it bass-ackwatds. We have arguably the best QB/WR/DE in the league right now. But the DE is 31. How many years does he have at prime? Two? Three max? 

We should have maxed out cap space now, and been as aggressive as humanly possible in acquiring talent in areas of need (IOL, DT, DE). If not in FA, then in the draft via guys who are ready to contribute now. 

Instead we failed to maximize cap, were more than willing to pay marginal guys good money and keep them on the roster (Pratt, Stone, Volson, Moss), brought in bargin bin FA on the IOL and a mid round pick who likely needs development and therefore makes it harder to release Volson, picked a developmental high risk/traits DE with a lot to learn and then tried to insert insulting new language in his contract that makes him not sign a deal, and piss off the ine guy he should be learning from so he holds out. And we keeping Pratt on the roster after bringing in Burks in FA & drafting 2 LBs. $7 mil for LB#5 does not make much sense to me, especially if you wanna plead you are short on cash. 

(Yesterday, 11:04 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Some Bengals fan lose common sense when sayinggo all in for Trey. They forget the simple fact that if they gave up new contracts everytime a player outplayed his deal it would be a major issue. I love Trey, but he is one player of many.

If Trey decides to sit out, I will respect hid decision but also understand it was his decision to sit out and not accept an offer from the team. Sorry, Trey is the bad guy here, not the FO who offered him an extension (they did not have to offer anything) that he refused.

Yeah,  why would fans want to sign a guy who lead the NFL in sacks this past season's and was second the year prior? He only accounts for 48% of our sack total ,what a bum!

I cant belive  the A-hole ask for market value? He should be thankful with the contract Katie gave him because Katie seems to be a very rational and fair negotiator!