(07-28-2025, 04:57 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: This is right.  It’s hard to really say where the hang up is.  I doubt it’s just $6,000,000-$10,000,000.  Maybe that is the compromised number, but I assume that is just pure speculation.  

I think this gets done.  Once finalized, almost all the risk is on the bengals. Trey can afford almost next to no fall-off for the contract to not age poorly.  I really understand the reluctance of the bengals on this one.  

Of course they got it wrong with whit, but they also got it wrong with Geno, and to an extent AJ Green (who should have aged nicely).  Green fell off a cliff after 30, but also coming off injury.

That is the reality of signing star players to contracts in 2025.  Trey has been adamant that this contract must contain guaranteed money for year 2. As it is right now, all the risk is on Trey's side

(07-28-2025, 04:57 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: This is right.  It’s hard to really say where the hang up is.  I doubt it’s just $6,000,000-$10,000,000.  Maybe that is the compromised number, but I assume that is just pure speculation.  

I think this gets done.  Once finalized, almost all the risk is on the bengals. Trey can afford almost next to no fall-off for the contract to not age poorly.  I really understand the reluctance of the bengals on this one.  

Of course they got it wrong with whit, but they also got it wrong with Geno, and to an extent AJ Green (who should have aged nicely).  Green fell off a cliff after 30, but also coming off injury.

I'm not sure that is a fair and accurate comparison. AJ Green as you said was coming off an injury, Trey is coming off a first team All Pro season.

JMO the NFL is a business. I’m fully aware of that. But messages are important. Trey has made his mark as a team leader and his wife in the community. His faith is important to him and his foundation. He’s the kind of guy you want to reward even if you take a risk. They should have given him 2 years guaranteed a long time ago.

(07-28-2025, 09:13 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: JMO the NFL is a business. I’m fully aware of that. But messages are important. Trey has made his mark as a team leader and his wife in the community. His faith is important to him and his foundation. He’s the kind of guy you want to reward even if you take a risk. They should have given him 2 years guaranteed a long time ago.

I agree with this. Trey is the kind of person you want to reward. He is also the kind of person, who once he has a guarantee will still give his all. There is no risk that he would slack off or, if injured, would not give his all to get back on the field.

I don't think many disagree Sooner and Nepa, but I am not sure FO wants to put guaranteed money into year 3. A trade off would be for some guarantee in year 3 in exchange for lower salary in year 2. So far no one has blinked, but I do thing Trey wants to play in Cincy and Bengals want him. This is far cry to how Carson Palmer held out for those bashing Trey. His comments of late have been professional and MB's were as well.

I think they get it done sooner than later. This is a distarction for fans, but not for players or coaches who have too much on their schedule right now to worry about Trey. Many are trying to make a team, climb up depth charts or young guys trying to learn,

(07-28-2025, 08:27 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not sure that is a fair and accurate comparison. AJ Green as you said was coming off an injury, Trey is coming off a first team All Pro season.

Von miller never had double digit sacks after his age 29 season.
Demarcus ware went from 19.5 his age 29 season, and never had over 11.5 after that. He played 5 more years and had 10 and 11.5.
Jared Allen went from 22, age 29 season to not having more than 12. He has two seasons of double digit sacks, out of 6, after 30.


Similar for Terrell Suggs, Dwight freeney, and most DEs all time. Trey may be an outlier, but the data shows a likely decline (maybe steep) within 2 years, meaning this year or next.

(Yesterday, 12:51 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Von miller never had double digit sacks after his age 29 season.
Demarcus ware went from 19.5 his age 29 season, and never had over 11.5 after that. He played 5 more years and had 10 and 11.5.
Jared Allen went from 22, age 29 season to not having more than 12. He has two seasons of double digit sacks, out of 6, after 30.


Similar for Terrell Suggs, Dwight freeney, and most DEs all time.  Trey may be an outlier, but the data shows a likely decline (maybe steep) within 2 years, meaning this year or next.

Fopr years everyone praised and praised Bill Belicheat for getting rid of players right before they dropped off. Now people are bashing the Bengals for not giving a 30-year-old DE a 3-year guaranteed contract. 

(07-28-2025, 08:12 PM)pally Wrote: That is the reality of signing star players to contracts in 2025.  Trey has been adamant that this contract must contain guaranteed money for year 2. As it is right now, all the risk is on Trey's side

Shouldn't it be? He wants right now to be paid as he's performing yet in the future he wants to be guaranteed to be paid the same if he not performing at the same level. Where does that make sense of a business to take that on?

(Yesterday, 09:03 AM)R3stangs Wrote: Shouldn't it be? He wants right now to be paid as he's performing yet in the future he wants to be guaranteed to be paid the same if he not performing at the same level. Where does that make sense of a business to take that on?

Right, you don’t “reward” for part performance in the NFL. You pay for future performance, which is why the Trey Hendrickson FA acquisition positioned them nicely. It’s not “being cheap”.

Older players are more likely to get injured and, even without injury, decline as they age. For DE, the cliffs are after 7 seasons and then again after 9. Trey missed the 7 year cliff, which with last year being year 8. He will almost certainly (outside of injury) have a good to great 2025 campaign. But as I said, if he starts the decline that almost every DE in league history has, any contract extension will age poorly.

I predict the watt contract ages badly, the Garrett contract ages ok. But Myles Garrett is also one of the best DE’s of all time. He is just built different, kind of like Julius peppers. Speaking of peppers, he never had more than 11.5 sacks/season after his age 29. But he brought a lot to the run game support.

I understand Treys position, from his standpoint. I also understand the Bengals. It would be interesting if they could craft the contract to somehow give them some relief, and him some incentives… based on production. A mutually beneficial contract.

The one thing that we need to keep in mind is the lack of wear and tear on Trey his first 3 years in the league. He played more defensive snaps last year alone (825), than he did his first 3 (820).

(Yesterday, 12:51 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Von miller never had double digit sacks after his age 29 season.
Demarcus ware went from 19.5 his age 29 season, and never had over 11.5 after that. He played 5 more years and had 10 and 11.5.
Jared Allen went from 22, age 29 season to not having more than 12. He has two seasons of double digit sacks, out of 6, after 30.


Similar for Terrell Suggs, Dwight freeney, and most DEs all time.  Trey may be an outlier, but the data shows a likely decline (maybe steep) within 2 years, meaning this year or next.

Vonn Miller tore his ACL and was never the same. Demarcus Ware had 10 and 11.5 sacks, I mean that's pretty good. He had a great year in 2014. That's top 10 and he had a bunch of QB hits, very productive season. 

I think at times we take for granted PRODUCTION and focus too much on ELITE production. No one is asking Trey to have 20 sacks by his age 33 season. If he can still get to the QB, have 10 sacks, cause disruption, then that is all we are asking for. Given the current state of this DL, I'd more than take that. 

Yes his best years are most likely behind him, that doesn't mean he can't be a very productive player still. 

Trey starting to pay MB and the Bengals to sit in Florida. Fine will increase to 950,000 per game once season starts if he fails to report.

Mandtory camp missed = 98K
Day 1 TC = 50K (mandatory and can't be waived by team) Money also goes back into Bengals 2025 cap space
Day 2 TC = 50K (mandatory and can't be waived by team) Money also goes back into Bengals 2025 cap space
Day 3 TC = 50K (mandatory and can't be waived by team) Money also goes back into Bengals 2025 cap space
Day 4 TC = 50K (mandatory and can't be waived by team) Money also goes back into Bengals 2025 cap space
Day 5 TC = 50K (mandatory and can't be waived by team) Money also goes back into Bengals 2025 cap space
Day 6 TC = 50K (mandatory and can't be waived by team) Money also goes back into Bengals 2025 cap space

Total - 398K

(Yesterday, 10:39 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Vonn Miller tore his ACL and was never the same. Demarcus Ware had 10 and 11.5 sacks, I mean that's pretty good. He had a great year in 2014. That's top 10 and he had a bunch of QB hits, very productive season. 

I think at times we take for granted PRODUCTION and focus too much on ELITE production. No one is asking Trey to have 20 sacks by his age 33 season. If he can still get to the QB, have 10 sacks, cause disruption, then that is all we are asking for. Given the current state of this DL, I'd more than take that. 

Yes his best years are most likely behind him, that doesn't mean he can't be a very productive player still. 

Injuries happen Weezy, especially as you get older. It’s just a simple fact. If Trey is being paid as a top 5 -10 DE as the contract ages, he needs to give you top 5-10 production. If he is sitting here, in his age 32 season (2 years away, as your 3rd highest contract on guaranteed money and has given you 10.5 and 9.5 sacks the previous 2 years, are we thinking that the extension was good?

Again, it’s all about ROI here. Very productive production vs top 5 highest paid, is not a win/win.

Trey wants the Bengals to pay him regardless of injury or future production. If him, I would want that as well. But, if you believe in yourself to stay healthy and produce huge numbers, then an incentive laced contract should not concern you in my opinion.

I do think Bengals need to guarantee 2 years, but then it should be almost 100% incentive based and I would even be good with a 3 year extension taking him to age 34, but not guaranteed in years 3 and 4.

(05-12-2025, 04:09 PM)J24 Wrote: Yes, I think he is worth being the highest Edge in the NFL.

Didn't you folks pass Marijuana for personal use in OH? Trey can surely afford to be the "highest" but he won't be very productive!

(07-27-2025, 01:29 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: The more time goes by and different stories of past players come to light I really think it's just another negative of the front office. I get that sometimes you can come to an impasse but that appears to be part of the Bengals strategy. Feels like we need to try and do a better job keeping communication lines open and not just drawing hard lines in the sand. They eventually caved and took a an extra 500k upfront of the signing bonus. Just makes you wonder if the Bengals offered a 60% 40% payout of the signing bonus instead of the 50/50 existing from the start would this whole thing been avoided?

Every team in the league hits brick walls in negotiations.  We're more sensitive to it when it's the Bengals because it's our fave team and when stuff like this happens, we're often checking daily for updates.  

The reality is, we as fans want what's best for the team on the field.  That means guys signed early and happy with their contracts.  The team, however, has to look at it like a business.  You have to be very careful what precedents you set in negotiations, because agents will use those against you.

Case in point, this negotiation.  The Bengals were trying to add language to the contract.  To the agent, even though nearly every team uses that same language, the Bengals previously hadn't.  So, he takes the position that since the club has no precedent for it, his client deserves accommodations to accept the language.  Never mind the fact that Stewart's signing bonus is $10.4 mil and Mims only got $7.99 mil.  He wants something for his client.  

If you go 60/40 on the payment schedule immediately, then the agent for next year's first round pick is going to expect a 60/40 payout schedule. .If you want to walk it back to 50/50, you may deal with another prolonged holdout, if you can walk it back at all. By going 60/40, you set a precedent that for the club's conceivable future, forces you to keep more liquid cash on hand to sign your 1st round pick.  That has long reaching implications on your business. To knock that back to $500k in exchange for a guy missing three practices that aren't even in pads is better for the club long term.  

(Yesterday, 10:56 AM)MTBengalsFan Wrote: Didn't you folks pass Marijuana for personal use in OH? Trey can surely afford to be the "highest" but he won't be very productive!

lol, I missed the comment you replied to. He doesn’t deserve to be the highest paid Edge. He doesn’t bring enough to the rest of his game, outside of pass rush. Here is a compromise. Make him the highest paid in 2025, but then $16,000,000 for the following two years, with year 2 being 100% guaranteed.

That’s likely a bit low, but something in that ballpark. A 2 year, $65M extension, $45m GTD, in addition to his $16m 2025 salary.

2025 - $41m (100% GTD)
2026 - $20m (100% GTD)
2026 - $20m

This being said, he would likely just be back at the table next year, wanting a contract extension.

(Yesterday, 10:52 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Trey wants the Bengals to pay him regardless of injury or future production. If him, I would want that as well. But, if you believe in yourself to stay healthy and produce huge numbers, then an incentive laced contract should not concern you in my opinion.

I do think Bengals need to guarantee 2 years, but then it should be almost 100% incentive based and I would even be good with a 3 year extension taking him to age 34, but not guaranteed in years 3 and 4.

You can believe in yourself to stay healthy all you want, but when 350 lb dudes are trying to stop you from going where you want to go, injuries occur.

I have no problem with Trey looking for a little security. Trey is severely underpaid for his production.

WTS, the Bengals are VERY smart in signing contracts. The average NFL Team has over $35 million in dead cap; the Bengals have less than $9 million. 

(Yesterday, 10:47 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Injuries happen Weezy, especially as you get older.  It’s just a simple fact.  If Trey is being paid as a top 5 -10 DE as the contract ages, he needs to give you top 5-10 production.  If he is sitting here, in his age 32 season (2 years away, as your 3rd highest contract on guaranteed money and has given you 10.5 and 9.5 sacks the previous 2 years, are we thinking that the extension was good?

Again, it’s all about ROI here.  Very productive production vs top 5 highest paid, is not a win/win.

He won't be top 5 highest paid in 3 years. 

(Yesterday, 11:45 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: He won't be top 5 highest paid in 3 years. 

Hence why I said 5-10….

(Yesterday, 11:37 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You can believe in yourself to stay healthy all you want, but when 350 lb dudes are trying to stop you from going where you want to go, injuries occur.

I have no problem with Trey looking for a little security. Trey is severely underpaid for his production.

WTS, the Bengals are VERY smart in signing contracts. The average NFL Team has over $35 million in dead cap; the Bengals have less than $9 million. 

I don't disagree. The same reasoning is why the Bengals who have him under contract are reluctant to guarantee 80 million dollars for a 30 year old. The same player who yes is underpaid, but he is under contract and control of the team.

Do you realize in 2025, Trey has no guaranteed money, zero, nada.

So for him to get 60 million would be a huge number to make him feel better if he gets hurt or age catches up with him and double digit sacks go to single digit sacks. 

I want them to find a way, but I get both sides having valid points. They will BOTH NEED TO COMPROMISE OR NO DEAL WILL HAPPEN.