The players have very few live reps in the scheme. You get better by playing football and I expect the team to start slow to open the year defensively but get better as the year progresses. I think Jenkins is emerging and when Trey gets back pairing them together will yield solid results. As Shemar comes along hopefully we start seeing a competent pass rush. The backend will be a work in progress but as Dax comes back and again schematically they get comfortable I still think it can be a semi competent unit.

I am only looking for something in the 20 or so range from the defense and I think we are fine. Nothing so far makes me feel like we can't do this at this time, but ask me again around regular season week 4.

(Yesterday, 05:29 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Philly hit on some key secondary players in the draft and had some young recent dline draftees ball out as well.

Denver definitely got better through their drafting as well leading up to last year.

For the bengals defense to step up we’ll need some recent draft picks to pan out.

Im expecting a lot of growing pains and a lot of our success depends on the offense being amazing.

If we hit on Mims, Jenkins, McKinnley Jackson, Shemar Stewart, Demetrius Knight, Dylan Fairchild good times are ahead.

Maybe similar to the Eagles, we will see.

(Yesterday, 03:23 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Burrow is 3-6 vs the Ravens in his career, and one of those wins was against Tyler Huntley. So no, we can’t beat “anyone.” We have a real problem with a team in our own division.

3-5 actually (4-5 if including playoffs) and one of them (the wrist game), he went out at halftime with the lead, so could've gone either way, IMO.

And one of the wins wasn't against Huntley, but Anthony Brown

I was at that 2010 training camp practice when Antoinio Bryant went down in the morning practice and they signed TO and he was there for the afternoon practice. Pretty cool to see him and Chad come walking by. But i don't have 2010 vibes probably because i don't think we did enough this offseason so I was tempering my expectations. I think the Bengals strategy will be more to have a good chance in 2 to 3 years.

I do like the thread as we needed something new. So i will say what vibes I'm getting at the moment. I think our run game might just wake up and explode onto the scene this year. Never want to get to hyped in the offseason but I do think there are little tid bits that sneak out of training camp that can be an indicator for the season. We have been doing really well team run blocking it seems like and with Chase's explosiveness we might start some runs to the house. Now its only been against our own defense and Philly backups but what we've seen is good.

(Yesterday, 05:39 PM)Au165 Wrote: The players have very few live reps in the scheme. You get better by playing football and I expect the team to start slow to open the year defensively but get better as the year progresses. I think Jenkins is emerging and when Trey gets back pairing them together will yield solid results. As Shemar comes along hopefully we start seeing a competent pass rush. The backend will be a work in progress but as Dax comes back and again schematically they get comfortable I still think it can be a semi competent unit.

I am only looking for something in the 20 or so range from the defense and I think we are fine. Nothing so far makes me feel like we can't do this at this time, but ask me again around regular season week 4.

That is pretty much my point of view as well. When the pass rush starts having some success from more than one slot, the secondary will suddenly appear much better and start making plays. If the Bengals can get to their bye week with 6 or more wins, they'll have a legit shot at winning the Division, so long as they can beat Baltimore at least once.

(Yesterday, 05:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: If we hit on Mims, Jenkins, McKinnley Jackson, Shemar Stewart, Demetrius Knight, Dylan Fairchild good times are ahead.

Maybe similar to the Eagles, we will see.

I'm hoping the front 7 comes together this year.

I'm still very worried about FS and corner. 
Both have been very bad.
At this point I'm hoping they can be average.

They could really use a legit starter at corner and FS to solidify the group.
I'm not convinced we have a potential lockdown corner on the roster.

I'm expecting growing pains on defense this year and hopefully they can hit on a lockdown corner next year in the draft.

I'm really not concerned about the offense at all other than them staying healthy all year.

(Yesterday, 03:26 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: We had an excellent oline in '09, last year we did not. We also did not add 2 new, supposedly dynamic WRs AND our running game was our strength at the time.

Those alone make the feeling completely different.

We added 1 above-average receiver. 


In the 2010 NFL season, Terrell Owens[14 games] and Chad Johnson[16 games] (also known as Chad Ochocinco) played together for the Cincinnati Bengals. Johnson had a strong season, recording 67 receptions for 793 yards and 4 touchdowns, according to Wikipedia. Owens, in his first season with the Bengals, caught 72 passes for 983 yards and 9 touchdowns. While Johnson was a consistent presence for the Bengals, Owens led the team in receiving yards and touchdowns, showcasing his continued ability despite being in his late 30s. 

(Yesterday, 07:19 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I'm hoping the front 7 comes together this year.

I'm still very worried about FS and corner. 
Both have been very bad.
At this point I'm hoping they can be average.

They could really use a legit starter at corner and FS to solidify the group.
I'm not convinced we have a potential lockdown corner on the roster.

I'm expecting growing pains on defense this year and hopefully they can hit on a lockdown corner next year in the draft.

I'm really not concerned about the offense at all other than them staying healthy all year.

As I mentioned in a previous response to another poster, I have a feeling that when the pass rush starts coming from multiple slots along the LOS, the secondary is going to suddenly look much better. Sure, it would be nice to have a "shutdown" CB or an absolute assassin at S, but the guys we have were all at the top of the class when they were drafted. They didn't just "forget how to play football", they've been playing on a dysfunctional defense. When the pass rush from the front seven gets ironed out, the secondary will start looking like their draft slots.

(Yesterday, 07:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: As I mentioned in a previous response to another poster, I have a feeling that when the pass rush starts coming from multiple slots along the LOS, the secondary is going to suddenly look much better. Sure, it would be nice to have a "shutdown" CB or an absolute assassin at S, but the guys we have were all at the top of the class when they were drafted. They didn't just "forget how to play football", they've been playing on a dysfunctional defense. When the pass rush from the front seven gets ironed out, the secondary will start looking like their draft slots.

On paper we look better. 
I like the recent draft picks in the front 7.
I'm just expecting it to take a good amount of time to develop the unit.

Hill to me is over the hill and better suited as a relief player--yet he's starting.
I'm very high on our rookie defensive end, but he has a lot to learn--and he isn't even starting yet.
Our top pass rusher isn't signed yet, which means the front 7 isn't developing chemistry yet as a unit and will need to do so during the season.


I like the recent draft picks at DT and corner.
I like Battle.
I'm just not convinced any of our corners have a ceiling of being shutdown players.
Their ceiling is above average and they aren't there yet.
Our FS was overpaid IMO and I'm just not sold on him being above average.

Yes there's potential with the defense but I think it's going to take some time.
And I think we could use more talent influx as well--especially in the secondary.
Wouldn't hurt to get another pass rusher as well.

My expectations with the current team are way higher than what I had back in 2010. Geno and Dunlap were rookies then, and nobody really knew how good they’d turn out to be. Our secondary was solid with Leon Hall and Jonathan Joseph. But now, we know what we’re capable of with Burrow, Chase, and Higgins. This team has already made it to two straight conference championships, something Marvin and Palmer never even came close to doing. But if the expectations are higher now, that also means there’s a lot less room for error. If this team doesn’t make the playoffs this season, Zac Taylor shouldn’t be the head coach next year.

(Yesterday, 07:41 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: On paper we look better. 
I like the recent draft picks in the front 7.
I'm just expecting it to take a good amount of time to develop the unit.

Hill to me is over the hill and better suited as a relief player--yet he's starting.
I'm very high on our rookie defensive end, but he has a lot to learn--and he isn't even starting yet.
Our top pass rusher isn't signed yet, which means the front 7 isn't developing chemistry yet as a unit and will need to do so during the season.


I like the recent draft picks at DT and corner.
I like Battle.
I'm just not convinced any of our corners have a ceiling of being shutdown players.
Their ceiling is above average and they aren't there yet.
Our FS was overpaid IMO and I'm just not sold on him being above average.

Yes there's potential with the defense but I think it's going to take some time.
And I think we could use more talent influx as well--especially in the secondary.
Wouldn't hurt to get another pass rusher as well.

Not sure that he was "overpaid", he's only getting $4.9M with $1.5 guaranteed, good enough to be the 33rd highest paid Safety in the NFL. Is he a big time talent? No, not really, not even close actually. But, that is what we get when the Bengals go bargain shopping (dumpster diving) in an effort to avoid paying real money to a position that they just don't value. Stone was the beneficiary of playing on a supremely orchestrated Raven's defense and he got some lucky INTs one year, that is all. Nothing about his game even entice the Ravens to offer him a second contract. Mike Brown and Co.? Oh, hell yeah, we love that guy...

(Yesterday, 08:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Not sure that he was "overpaid", he's only getting $4.9M with $1.5 guaranteed, good enough to be the 33rd highest paid Safety in the NFL. Is he a big time talent? No, not really, not even close actually. But, that is what we get when the Bengals go bargain shopping (dumpster diving) in an effort to avoid paying real money to a position that they just don't value. Stone was the beneficiary of playing on a supremely orchestrated Raven's defense and he got some lucky INTs one year, that is all. Nothing about his game even entice the Ravens to offer him a second contract. Mike Brown and Co.? Oh, hell yeah, we love that guy...

Did he make more money in the first year of the deal?

When he signed I remember thinking it was an overpay.


Edit:

Nevermind I looked it up. He agreed to reduce his salary this year down from just under $6.5 mil for this year.

Seems like the Bengals thought they overpaid him.

(Yesterday, 08:03 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Did he make more money in the first year of the deal?

When he signed I remember thinking it was an overpay.


Edit:

Nevermind I looked it up. He agreed to reduce his salary this year down from just under $6.5 mil for this year.

Seems like the Bengals thought they overpaid him.

Even if he hadn't agreed to a pay reduction, he would have been tied for the 29th highest paid Safety. Truth is that the Bengals gambled and gave him what in their eyes was "starter" money, the truth is that he can't live up to that as he was a depth player in Baltimore.

(Yesterday, 08:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Even if he hadn't agreed to a pay reduction, he would have been tied for the 29th highest paid Safety. Truth is that the Bengals gambled and gave him what in their eyes was "starter" money, the truth is that he can't live up to that as he was a depth player in Baltimore.

Yeah it is what it is.

And what it is doesn't leave me feeling good about our options at FS.

(Yesterday, 08:21 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Yeah it is what it is.

And what it is doesn't leave me feeling good about our options at FS.

You're right, I don't feel like many real fans do think that Stone was ever a "good option" to take over FS. Some were optimistic, hoping that he would suddenly flourish in a starting role, but that didn't happen.

I'm not sure how the OP got "strong 2010 Vibes" from this team. (yes, I read what he wrote, but I just don't see it) That team coming off of the 2009 season was literally "3 yards and a cloud of dust", as they ran Cedric Benson for all that he was worth, using an extra Tackle as a TE for about half of the plays. The only similarity is paying 2 high profile WRs, one of which was done and just wanted one last paycheck.

Bonus points if anyone actually can recall watching the T-Ocho show. What a stupid circus side act that whole thing was.

(Yesterday, 08:23 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You're right, I don't feel like many real fans do think that Stone was ever a "good option" to take over FS. Some were optimistic, hoping that he would suddenly flourish in a starting role, but that didn't happen.

This safety duo has the potential to be incredibly bad.  Like harken back to the Ohalete-Kaesviharn days bad.

(Yesterday, 08:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not sure how the OP got "strong 2010 Vibes" from this team. (yes, I read what he wrote, but I just don't see it) That team coming off of the 2009 season was literally "3 yards and a cloud of dust", as they ran Cedric Benson for all that he was worth, using an extra Tackle as a TE for about half of the plays. The only similarity is paying 2 high profile WRs, one of which was done and just wanted one last paycheck.

Bonus points if anyone actually can recall watching the T-Ocho show. What a stupid circus side act that whole thing was.

Where my 2010 vibes came from is during the preseason in 2010 with the Bengals looking awful and the excuse was "We are playing vanilla and dont want to show our plays so this wont reflect the season" and of course they played the same way in the season and it reflected on what was to come.

Skip to last weeks game (Im talking STRICTLY about the defense here)  The defensive 1st unit looked horrible against an Eagles 2nd unit. What did I hear the coaches say about it after the game? "We are playing very vanilla and dont want to show our plays but instead seeing the player's ability and it doesnt reflect what youll see this season"


I personally dont buy it. You cant polish a turd. Its not that I dont think Golden will eventually be good. I just dont see it with this defensive roster and the fact that they were hyped during training camp and how different they are versus last year with Lou at the helm....well I saw the same ole shit. 

Burrow and company will play great and score a ton of points and the defense will choke negating whatevert the offense does.




I do remember watching multiple episodes of the T-Ocho show on VH1 until I lost so many brain cells I had to stop in fear of becoming a vegatable. 

(Yesterday, 09:15 PM)GodFather Wrote: Where my 2010 vibes came from is during the preseason in 2010 with the Bengals looking awful and the excuse was "We are playing vanilla and dont want to show our plays so this wont reflect the season" and of course they played the same way in the season and it reflected on what's was to come.

Skip to last weeks game (Im talking STRICTLY about the defense here)  The defensive 1st unit looked horrible against an Eagles 2nd unit. What did I hear the coaches say about it after the game? "We are playing very vanilla and dont want to show our plays but instead seeing the player's ability and it doesnt reflect what youll see this season"


I personally dont buy it. You cant polish a turd. Its not that I dont think Golden will eventually be good. I just dont see it with this defensive roster and the fact that they were hyped during training camp and how different they are versus last year with Lou at the helm....well I saw the same ole shit. 

Burrow and company will play great and score a ton of points and the defense will choke negating whatevert the offense does.




I do remember watching multiple episodes of the T-Ocho show on VH1 until I lost so many brain cells I had to stop in fear of becoming a vegatable. 

The bolded part is what I thought after the first 5 minutes..  But, as for the Defense. That wasn't really the 1st team out there. No Hendrickson, no BJ Hill and a green dot Rookie playing Mike LB. Anyone that thinks that Myles Murphy is going to be a "starter" in the NFL is just plain fooling themselves. He was just another swing and miss by the Bengals staff looking for "value" at a draft slot. 

(Yesterday, 09:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The bolded part is what I thought after the first 5 minutes..  But, as for the Defense. That wasn't really the 1st team out there. No Hendrickson, no BJ Hill and a green dot Rookie playing Mike LB. Anyone that thinks that Myles Murphy is going to be a "starter" in the NFL is just plain fooling themselves. He was just another swing and miss by the Bengals staff looking for "value" at a draft slot. 

It's come down to waiting for BJ Hill to save us?

Hendrickson will have an impact for sure but they need someone else to emerge from the other 10 positions.

I'd be more cautious in your optimism if I were you.