(03-21-2016, 01:53 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Can we please get past the high school mentality of "starting running back"..... we have two, the spit carries based on the what the defenses weaknesses are.... simple as that.

Yes, because no college or pro team has starting running backs anymore, just high school. Lol

It's a valid question, and they don't have two if two don't start a game. They also don't ever have an even split even if both get playing time.

(03-21-2016, 01:26 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: So you're saying what you're proposing for Hill's phantom injury is that he had a 9.5 month lingering unreported injury?

Now YOU are the one who needs to read what you just typed. 9.5 months (2014 playoff game to Week 7 in 2015 because of the mention of the 6 week hitch thing) of lingering injury that goes unreported on the injury report and continues to effect another 2+ months at least? That's not a lingering injury, that'd be being hurt for almost an entire calendar year. There's no way that doesn't get reported.

Terrell Suggs returned from a torn achilles in 5 months.
Adrian Peterson tore his ACL and returned in 8.5 months to rush for just shy of 2,100 yards and win an MVP.

Yet Jeremy Hill's theoretical lingering non-reported injury took like 11.5 months in order for him to finally get a rush of 20+ yards? Thin. Real thin.



- - --
No problem with the Gio stats. Bugs me every time people bring that up. Gio is basically a Ray Rice clone, sans the wife beating, and nobody claimed Ray Rice couldn't run between the tackles.

Yes...have you ever even played sports?  Something as simple as a blister or a broken toe nail or plantar fascitis can hamper your play drastically but not get you sidelined by the medical staff...All of these can linger for a long time...Plantar problems sometimes never fully heal....I BELIEVE when I HEAR from the VOICE OF THE BENGALS, DAVE LAPHAM that Hill had a lingering injury form the playoff game the year before then I take that word over you believing that it is just not possible..i do not think he would lie about it...Do you?

(03-21-2016, 02:44 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Yes...have you ever even played sports?  Something as simple as a blister or a broken toe nail or plantar fascitis can hamper your play drastically but not get you sidelined by the medical staff...All of these can linger for a long time...Plantar problems sometimes never fully heal....I BELIEVE when I HEAR from the VOICE OF THE BENGALS, DAVE LAPHAM that Hill had a lingering injury form the playoff game the year before then I take that word over you believing that it is just not possible..i do not think he would lie about it...Do you?

So your theory is now that Jeremy Hill had a 12 month blister or broken toe nail that not a single person ever mentioned, and that's why he sucked in 2015. If he had 12 months of plantar fascitis, he would have most certainly been put on the injury report. It would have been a conversation point. I'm not seeing how a 12 month unreported blister is a more plausible theory than the fact that Hill's 9 game stretch was the stars aligning and the other 25 games of his career are much closer to the real Hill.

I'm pretty positive I also heard Dave Lapham once tell everyone that Margus Hunt was poised for a monster breakout season. Just saying, the "voice of the Bengals" can be wrong and has been wrong before, regardless of how many words you capitalize in that sentence.

(03-21-2016, 09:34 AM)Au165 Wrote: If you start Hill then you need to let him get more carries and get into a rhythm. Pulling guys out every other series doesn't let anyone get in a rhythm, Hill seems like the kind of guy who gains steam as he gets more carries.

i agree and while he had a down year it's not unrealistic to think he'll bounce back and have a solid 3rd season. Gio isn't a back who should see 20-25 carries a game, however he should get between 10-15 carries and like 4-6 passes a game and I believe that's where he'll be most effective.

(03-21-2016, 04:04 PM)Crowe Wrote: i agree and while he had a down year it's not unrealistic to think he'll bounce back and have a solid 3rd season. Gio isn't a back who should see 20-25 carries a game, however he should get between 10-15 carries and like 4-6 passes a game and I believe that's where he'll be most effective.

Why do people continue to say things like this? Where is the evidence that Gio can't be a guy that gets 20-25 carries a game? Is it because hes shorter than Hill? Because hes smaller in stature?

I just dont get it. Gio has never really had any injury issues and has shown no signs of slowing down as the game/season wears on. 

Im still for both Hill and Gio splitting carries, but we need to stop looking at Gio like hes someone that cant carry the load if hes called upon.

(03-21-2016, 04:31 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Why do people continue to say things like this? Where is the evidence that Gio can't be a guy that gets 20-25 carries a game? Is it because hes shorter than Hill? Because hes smaller in stature?

I just dont get it. Gio has never really had any injury issues and has shown no signs of slowing down as the game/season wears on. 

Im still for both Hill and Gio splitting carries, but we need to stop looking at Gio like hes someone that cant carry the load if hes called upon.

Pretty much. I can think of him getting hurt like three times in his three years, and all three of them were when he was hung out to dry in the passing game, none of them on carries. Anyone is gong to be sore when Shazier gets to drive the crown of his helmet into your face or you are stretched out to catch a pass immobile and someone's allowed to get a full head of steam to slam into your unprotected ribs.

(03-21-2016, 04:31 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Why do people continue to say things like this? Where is the evidence that Gio can't be a guy that gets 20-25 carries a game? Is it because hes shorter than Hill? Because hes smaller in stature?

I just dont get it. Gio has never really had any injury issues and has shown no signs of slowing down as the game/season wears on. 

Im still for both Hill and Gio splitting carries, but we need to stop looking at Gio like hes someone that cant carry the load if hes called upon.

Earlier I posted his size in comparison to Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders.  He is basically the same size as both.

(03-21-2016, 03:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: So your theory is now that Jeremy Hill had a 12 month blister or broken toe nail that not a single person ever mentioned, and that's why he sucked in 2015. If he had 12 months of plantar fascitis, he would have most certainly been put on the injury report. It would have been a conversation point. I'm not seeing how a 12 month unreported blister is a more plausible theory than the fact that Hill's 9 game stretch was the stars aligning and the other 25 games of his career are much closer to the real Hill.

I'm pretty positive I also heard Dave Lapham once tell everyone that Margus Hunt was poised for a monster breakout season. Just saying, the "voice of the Bengals" can be wrong and has been wrong before, regardless of how many words you capitalize in that sentence.

You are just impossible some time...Do really not see the difference between a guy limping and the potential of a player?  The guy limping should be quite obvious,, The guy with potential is a hunch or a guess from what you observe.  One is definite...the other is not....If a guy has a limp..He has a limp...There is no dispute....  Also, Dalton broke his thumb...Did the Bengals tell you he would not start for the rest of the playoffs before the playoffs began or did you learn afterwards?  You just mentioned earlier that the Bengals do not jack around with the injury report like the Pats but I am pretty sure they did with that...So there is another one of your theories blown out the door.

Jeremy Hill is the real deal and will bounce back 

(03-21-2016, 05:02 PM)spazz70 Wrote: You are just impossible some time...Do really not see the difference between a guy limping and the potential of a player?  The guy limping should be quite obvious,, The guy with potential is a hunch or a guess from what you observe.  One is definite...the other is not....If a guy has a limp..He has a limp...There is no dispute....  Also, Dalton broke his thumb...Did the Bengals tell you he would not start for the rest of the playoffs before the playoffs began or did you learn afterwards?  You just mentioned earlier that the Bengals do not jack around with the injury report like the Pats but I am pretty sure they did with that...So there is another one of your theories blown out the door.

Jeremy Hill is the real deal and will bounce back 

Except I personally didn't see him limping out there on the field. I saw him slow and unaggressive, but not limping. You can Google it up and most likely find zero articles about him visibly limping on the field in 2015. Why? Because if a player is visibly hurt like you're claiming, and the team doesn't report it on the injury report, the NFL goes after them with fines and penalties. Case and point, the roughly billion words on the internet written about Andrew Luck's ribs.

The Bengals never once said Dalton would be back, they only hoped he'd be back in time for the divisional game. How is that jacking around with the injury report? Dude got injured, they listed the injury and said they didn't have an exact timeline for his return. That's the exact opposite of jacking around with the injury report.

"playoff return possible"
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/cincinnati-begals-no-surgery-for-andy-dalton-playoff-return-possible-121415

"return for playoffs hopeful"
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000601513/article/dalton-wont-have-surgery-return-for-playoffs-hopeful

Never got to learn if he could play in the Divisional round because they didn't make it so he didn't get the chance to cut off the cast early and try.

Now compare that to your theory that Hill was hurt for 12 months and not once had it listed on the injury report. The simple fact that we all know that Dalton had a broken thumb and many articles were written about it makes it completely different than a theoretical secret phantom year-long injury conspiracy.

(03-21-2016, 10:47 AM)spazz70 Wrote: Hill was injured..Ask Lapham...he saw a hitch in his giddy for at least the first 6 games...he talked about it on the radio constantly...He observed it with his own eyes...They may not have reported him injured but he was most definitely was..Most likely a carry over form the playoff game the previous year.

I could have sworn Hill practically bent his knee in half early on this season, maybe it was the KC game... Obviously it wasn't a major knee injury but I'm sure something lingered because he didn't look the same since.

(03-21-2016, 05:37 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I could have sworn Hill practically bent his knee in half early on this season, maybe it was the KC game... Obviously it wasn't a major knee injury but I'm sure something lingered because he didn't look the same since.

Don't encourage his conspiracy theory with more false info.

Hill prior to the KC game:
41 carries, 123 yards (3.00 YPC)

Hill after the KC game:
173 carries, 631 yards (3.65 YPC)

(03-21-2016, 04:31 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Why do people continue to say things like this? Where is the evidence that Gio can't be a guy that gets 20-25 carries a game? Is it because hes shorter than Hill? Because hes smaller in stature?

I just dont get it. Gio has never really had any injury issues and has shown no signs of slowing down as the game/season wears on. 

Im still for both Hill and Gio splitting carries, but we need to stop looking at Gio like hes someone that cant carry the load if hes called upon.

1. Gio has only carried it 20+ times twice in his career. I'm not sure this means he can't, but the fact that he's rarely done it is going to lead to some doubts.

2. He has been injured. In fact, Gio got injured during the only part of his career where he was getting the majority of the carries (2014). That's why Hill was able to take over in the first place.

3. Gio has shown signs of wearing down. Just last season, he averaged 5.5 ypc over his first 9 games and 3.3 ypc over his last 7.

(03-21-2016, 05:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Don't encourage his conspiracy theory with more false info.

Hill prior to the KC game:
41 carries, 123 yards (3.00 YPC)

Hill after the KC game:
173 carries, 631 yards (3.65 YPC)

I'm not encouraging anything, just trying to figure out when Hill hurt his knee and how it affected him afterwards. If it was the KC game, it was fairly early on I believe. 

(03-21-2016, 12:14 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Ok..check out the numbers Leonard listed then...trust your eyes all you want...the facts have spoken....These are not stats that have variances...He did or he didn't...plain and simple

I trust my eyes because they are better than other people's numbers.

Gio's yards between the tackles when the other team is playing the run basically suck. Sorry to tell you that. It's not hate on Gio or anything like that. It's just the way it all went down. When Gio started there were a ton of 0 and 1 yard runs up the middle on 1st and 2nd down, I mean a ton of them. Gio does get yards up the middle, but from what I've seen in games, those plays tend to come when we spread the defense out.

Gio has a role on this team, but it's not that of the RB who's going to bash away and wear down the other team as the game goes on. His role is going to be the guy who wears them down on the outside and in space. Different role and I believe he can excel in that role if we actually use him right.

Hill, if we block the middle properly (which just didn't happen last year), has the capability to draw 8 guys in the box and still putting up good numbers. The Achilles heal in Hill's game is his ball security. If that becomes a problem again he won't start on that factor alone.

EDIT: Also, who really cares which is the official starter? They are completely different type backs and if the team uses them both correctly they'll both get a lot of playing time and will help the team win.

And, from what I've seen, people who aren't that happy with Gio basically never liked a high 2nd round pick being used on him when Bell and Lacy were both sitting there and have done more for their teams. That doesn't mean it's ok to spew about Gio he didn't make that pick. I never have, but I also want the team to field a physical run game and don't see Gio as the guy to do that.

I thought last year it would be better to start Hill have the defense a little worn out then make them chase Gio around.

But I think 2014 showed it would work better the other way around. Start Gio. Get the defense tired spreading the ball around and chasing Gio around. Then let Hill come in fresh and run people over. I think a fresh defender is going to be more willing to take on Hill straight up. A tired defense isn't going to like a physical Jeremy Hill.

Start Gio and with a spread offense try to put up as many points as possible early. Then use Hill as a closer.

I don't know if this has been put in this thread yet, but it brings up a lot of relevant points to this question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJvUmiYU6n4

Giovanni is the best running back on this team and should be getting the most carries with hill being more of a goal line back. Giovanni's body has just gotten stronger every season and this guy could be an allstar in this league if given the chance. I was all over this board saying this at the start of last season and found it very fitting that he fumbled in that playoff game. Hill has never proven to me to be anything special and the only time he shined was when our team was so injured that we were forced to run him on every down. That rookie season success will never be repeated.

On a side note I get absolutely enraged when this guy celebrates a touch down every single time like he's something special. Giovanni will carry the ball for 60 yards and Hill will run it in for 1 yard and celebrate like he won the super bowl . I have always found it in bad taste and honestly I can't wait for us to cut that kid.

(03-21-2016, 05:28 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The Bengals never once said Dalton would be back, they only hoped he'd be back in time for the divisional game. How is that jacking around with the injury report? Dude got injured, they listed the injury and said they didn't have an exact timeline for his return. That's the exact opposite of jacking around with the injury report.

"playoff return possible"
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/cincinnati-begals-no-surgery-for-andy-dalton-playoff-return-possible-121415

"return for playoffs hopeful"
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000601513/article/dalton-wont-have-surgery-return-for-playoffs-hopeful

Never got to learn if he could play in the Divisional round because they didn't make it so he didn't get the chance to cut off the cast early and try.

Now compare that to your theory that Hill was hurt for 12 months and not once had it listed on the injury report. The simple fact that we all know that Dalton had a broken thumb and many articles were written about it makes it completely different than a theoretical secret phantom year-long injury conspiracy.

Because it was announced after the season that they knew all along that he would not be back at any point in the playoffs...Man can you not understand anything or are you just stubborn....   They released the above reports you posted and then announced AFTER THE PLAYOFF LOSS that they knew all along that he would not be back...Is that or is that not jacking with the injury report?

(03-21-2016, 05:28 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Except I personally didn't see him limping out there on the field. I saw him slow and unaggressive, but not limping. You can Google it up and most likely find zero articles about him visibly limping on the field in 2015. Why? Because if a player is visibly hurt like you're claiming, and the team doesn't report it on the injury report, the NFL goes after them with fines and penalties. Case and point, the roughly billion words on the internet written about Andrew Luck's ribs.

First...I will stick with my guns on what Lapham said early in the season
Second...after Chiefs game (week 4) Hill was limited and probable going into week 4
10/08/2015 by RotoWire Staff | Special to CBSSports.com

Cincinnati Bengals' Jeremy Hill Remains limited at practice Thursday
Hill (knee) remained limited at practice Thursday, the Cincinnati Enquirer's Paul Dehner Jr reports. We'll check back on Hill's status Friday and while there has been no indication that he is in danger of missing Sunday's game against the Seahawks, a probable injury designation to close the week would no doubt be reassuring to his fantasy owners.


Week 5...8 rushes in limited action with knee injury against Seattle....
10/12/2015 by RotoWire Staff | Special to CBSSports.com

Bengals RB Jeremy Hill rushes for only 13 yards in win over Seahawks
Bengals running back Jeremy Hill (knee) rushed eight times for 13 yards and caught one pass on two targets for 12 receiving yards Sunday against the Seahawks. 



Third...after Rams game (week 12) Hill was limited but not listed on injury report....
12/02/2015 by RotoWire Staff | Special to CBSSports.com

Bengals' Jeremy Hill: Gets some work in Wednesday
Hill (ankle) practiced Wednesday.  Hill was limited Wednesday, but his participation in any capacity bodes well for his Week 13 status, after having left this past Sunday's game against the Rams in the fourth quarter.


So don't act like Hill was never hurt or had nagging injuries this past season...Just because you did not see them does not mean they did not exist....


I will still find the podcast from Lapham and what he said about seeing at practice and the locker room..

Great, so now Hill is made of glass...

We are luck to have this problem. I think we keep them fresh and keep defenses on there toes by letting both get a relatively even split.