(06-23-2015, 12:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Please cut out this silly "happy with losing in the playoffs" crap.  No one here ios happy wioth losing in the playoffs.

And I never claimed dalton has reached Boomers level.

Why can't you address what I really said instead of making stuff up?  All I said was that the people who claim that Dalton can not win a playoff game because he has not won one yet are wrong.  

Get it now?

I agree with the bolded.

There is hope. There is always hope. The confidence level that it will happen fluctuates.

(06-23-2015, 12:17 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I agree with the bolded.

There is hope. There is always hope. The confidence level that it will happen fluctuates.

Hope is all well and good, but we've been HOPING Dalton can win the playoff game Palmer could not, so can't we just put in McCarron and HOPE that he can win the playoff game that Dalton could not?  The sooner we get rid of Dalton and put in McCarron, the sooner we can start HOPING someone else will show up and do better than him.

HOPE......is like a lighthouse keeper's beam.
Hope, the master carpenter of dreams.
For hope believes in desert streams.

It's really easy to look good in June. It'll impress me if it carries into August.

(06-23-2015, 12:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hope is all well and good, but we've been HOPING Dalton can win the playoff game Palmer could not, so can't we just put in McCarron and HOPE that he can win the playoff game that Dalton could not?  The sooner we get rid of Dalton and put in McCarron, the sooner we can start HOPING someone else will show up and do better than him.

HOPE......is like a lighthouse keeper's beam.
Hope, the master carpenter of dreams.
For hope believes in desert streams.

Fill up one hand with hope and the other with shit - see which one fills quicker.

(06-23-2015, 12:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hope is all well and good, but we've been HOPING Dalton can win the playoff game Palmer could not, so can't we just put in McCarron and HOPE that he can win the playoff game that Dalton could not?  The sooner we get rid of Dalton and put in McCarron, the sooner we can start HOPING someone else will show up and do better than him.

HOPE......is like a lighthouse keeper's beam.
Hope, the master carpenter of dreams.
For hope believes in desert streams.

I think McCarron has to actually complete some passes first. The chances of him being a Tom Brady aren't that great.

My hope statement was a joke. BTW

(06-23-2015, 12:28 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I think McCarron has to actually complete some passes first. The chances of him being a Tom Brady aren't that great.

My hope statement was a joke. BTW

You know what Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Art Garfunkel, AJ McCarron, and my cat all had in common?  There was a point when they thew 0 NFL passes.

Think THAT one over!

(06-23-2015, 12:30 PM)Nately120 Wrote: You know what Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Art Garfunkel, AJ McCarron, and my cat all had in common?  There was a point when they thew 0 NFL passes.

Think THAT one over!

LOL. Well, let's hire your cat and see what happens. If he's not too old, he'd be hard to catch and tackle in the open field.

(06-23-2015, 09:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No, not at all.  Just using Boomers career to show the holes in many peoples arguments against Dalton.  The fact that a QB has not won a playoff game by his fourth season does not mean it is impossible for him to win a playoff game in the futures.

No one EVER said it was impossible. The current discussion is comparing Boomer to Andy. Like i said, remove playoffs and Boomer was a top 5-10 QB in his era. 

(06-23-2015, 12:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hope is all well and good, but we've been HOPING Dalton can win the playoff game Palmer could not, so can't we just put in McCarron and HOPE that he can win the playoff game that Dalton could not?  The sooner we get rid of Dalton and put in McCarron, the sooner we can start HOPING someone else will show up and do better than him.

HOPE......is like a lighthouse keeper's beam.
Hope, the master carpenter of dreams.
For hope believes in desert streams.

By that logic, we already know that Dalton will make it to the playoffs. We would have to HOPE that McCarron can even get a winning season.

Also, the logic that "the sooner we get rid of Dalton, the sooner we can replace him with someone better" is also faulty. We haven't even seen McCarron in preseason or outside of training camp. This is his first time actually throwing to receivers.

Dalton is our best chance to win a playoff game this year, not McCarron. I've never seen a QB battle controversy turn out well in this age of the NFL. Didn't work out for the Browns last season, they were off better keeping Hoyer in. Were 1st in the AFC North and allowed hype for a QB to help derail a so far successful season at the time.

(06-23-2015, 01:27 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: By that logic, we already know that Dalton will make it to the playoffs. We would have to HOPE that McCarron can even get a winning season.

Also, the logic that "the sooner we get rid of Dalton, the sooner we can replace him with someone better" is also faulty. We haven't even seen McCarron in preseason or outside of training camp. This is his first time actually throwing to receivers.

Dalton is our best chance to win a playoff game this year, not McCarron. I've never seen a QB battle controversy turn out well in this age of the NFL. Didn't work out for the Browns last season, they were off better keeping Hoyer in. Were 1st in the AFC North and allowed hype for a QB to help derail a so far successful season at the time.

I think you misread his post.

He was saying that the people hoping McCarron is better than Andy will just go back to hoping someone comes in better than McCarron once he gets the starting job.

Until we have a consensus top 5 QB for many consecutive years, there will always be one portion of the fanbase complaining about whoever the QB happens to be at the time.

Until we have a consensus bottom 5 QB for many consecutive years, there will always be one portion of the fanbase making excuses and propping up whoever that QB happens to be at the time.

That seems to be the way things go with sports. Even if McCarron would get the starting job and turns out to be a good QB, a lot of the guys that have high hopes for him would be looking for the next great QB shortly after he was handed the keys.

(06-23-2015, 09:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No, not at all.  Just using Boomers career to show the holes in many peoples arguments against Dalton.  The fact that a QB has not won a playoff game by his fourth season does not mean it is impossible for him to win a playoff game in the futures.

For a guy that's been running around lately crying about strawman arguments and bitching at people for making claims that "nobody ever said" or "only 1 guy said", where are all the people claiming that it's impossible for Andy to win a playoff game because he hasn't already?

A few points.

1st--I don't make excuses for the rest of the team except under certain scenarios see below. In general the team hasn't played up to their potential in the playoffs. It's unacceptable and a major reason why I support getting rid of Marvin.

2nd-- It's hard to blame guys like AJ Green for not having a great playoff game when Dalton continues to over or under throw him the ball. That game against the Texans would have been a game winner if it wasn't for Daltons overthrow in the endzone. DOn't you think if Green had a top 10 QB his playoff games would be much better? Of course.

3rd-- The QB is the leader of the team and deserves the majority of praise when he succeeds, and on the flipside deserves the majority of the blame when his team struggles. In the playoffs our offense hasn't scored more than 10 points in each of the last 4 games. If I'm going to point a finger at a player on the field who I hold most responsible, it would be the QB not the LG or the RT.  This is common sense folks.......not sure why I'm even explaining myself.

As I said before, Dalton is in the best scenario of all time. Regardless of how poorly he plays, all blame is deflected to Marvin.  Flawed logic. 

(06-23-2015, 01:43 PM)djs7685 Wrote:  Even if McCarron would get the starting job and turns out to be a good QB, a lot of the guys that have high hopes for him would be looking for the next great QB shortly after he was handed the keys.

It depends on if AJ adopts Marvin's lackadaisical attitude of "these things happen/we done some good things" when things go awry or he acts like a man and puts it on his shoulders.
We may never find out, but since we are speaking in hypotheticals....

(06-22-2015, 04:45 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Really? Please explain I would love to hear it.

Listen - I'm not an Andy Basher.  But I have watched and played enough football to see that there is a good sized talent difference between these two guys.  Hell - I hope Andy leads us to the promised land - I've only been waiting since 68!  Bottom line is AJ was a four year starter at one of / if not the countries largest college program and won two national championships while competing in the SEC.  Look at the stat links below and you tell me, if both were available in the same draft class and you needed a QB, who would you take? 


http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/aj-mccarron-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/andy-dalton-1.html

I'm throwing in Andrew Lucks (who you can't argue is on his way to being in Payton Manning class) college numbers as well for a comparison.  Not going to elaborate any further - sorry if I ruffled any Andy feathers out there! Go Andy! (just don't get hurt!).

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/andrew-luck-1.html

(06-23-2015, 02:06 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: 3rd-- The QB is the leader of the team and deserves the majority of praise when he succeeds, and on the flipside deserves the majority of the blame when his team struggles.

 This is common sense folks.......not sure why I'm even explaining myself.

So when Palmer went 33-50 for 401 yards and 6 tds it was his fault that we lost to the Browns?

And when Boomer was 11-20 for 94 yards and 2 ints he gets the credit for winning a playoff game?



Yeah, not sure why anyone would have to explain "common" sense like this.

(06-23-2015, 02:20 PM)BengalD Wrote:  But I have watched and played enough football to see that there is a good sized talent difference between these two guys. 

Yeah, right, you are better at judging talent than every scout for every NFL team.

(06-23-2015, 02:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, right, you are better at judging talent than every scout for every NFL team.

Sir, I need to see written documentation from every single scout for every NFL team that says that Andy Dalton has more talent than A.J. McCarron before you are speaking in facts.

They were in completely different draft classes and AJM had an injury, so the round they were chosen in doesn't necessarily say a whole lot about the talent differential.

If you could fax me those documents asap, that'd be great so I can start looking them over. I'm sure you have them, because the great Fred would never speak unless he had concrete facts to prove his word. Thanks!

(06-23-2015, 02:35 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Sir, I need to see written documentation from every single scout for every NFL team that says that Andy Dalton has more talent than A.J. McCarron before you are speaking in facts.

They were in completely different draft classes and AJM had an injury, so the round they were chosen in doesn't necessarily say a whole lot about the talent differential.

If you could fax me those documents asap, that'd be great so I can start looking them over. I'm sure you have them, because the great Fred would never speak unless he had concrete facts to prove his word. Thanks!

Where were they drafted?
  
If AJ was that talented an injury wouldn't matter.  Todd Gurly had a worse injury than McCarron and he went #10 overall.  Our own first round draft pick is injured.  QBs are the most valuable players in the league.  If McCarron was any good teams would have drafted him higher.





**Waits for djs to claim his last post was just a joke.**

(06-23-2015, 02:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, right, you are better at judging talent than every scout for every NFL team.

I can tell you this - I would have picked an impact first rounder that CAN PLAY THIS YEAR (like say a linebacker), instead of a potential top ten talent but wasn't because he's injured.

(06-23-2015, 02:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Where were they drafted?
  
If AJ was that talented an injury wouldn't matter.  Todd Gurly had a worse injury than McCarron and he went #10 overall.  Our own first round draft pick is injured.  QBs are the most valuable players in the league.  If McCarron was any good teams would have drafted him higher.

**Waits for djs to claim his last post was just a joke.**

Different draft classes, can't compare them like that, sorry Fred.

You're just talking in opinions, which mean nothing since you aren't employed by the NFL. I need facts.

Show me the reports of every scout of every NFL team that say A.J. McCarron is less talented than Andy Dalton. That was your claim as if it were factual, so let's see it!

Honestly, you can keep making a mockery out of my posts all you'd like, but you look literally ******** if you can't tell that a post was a joke that made comparisons with football players and myself having sex with a super model. You sound dopey that you keep going on about this and can't let it go.